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does the past exist???
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Philosophicus
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does and did - we are limited here by linguistic problems to express the idea of the dimensions or phases of time. The important thing to remember is that Time per se does not exist, as I have explained earlier.


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Old Post Jan 11th, 2005 02:47 PM
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Ou Be Low hoo
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Disregarding a question of linguistics, I'd venture this...

The past exists only in the echoes that are felt in the present. If we listen to them, then the past exists as a means of validating improvement. If we ignore them, then past failures are reborn in present times.


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Old Post Jan 12th, 2005 05:51 AM
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HarmoNiC FLo
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If you believe in tha past you have to believe in tha future. if i move my index finger left to right. as i am moving it, present would be like taking a picture of it while its moving. but as soon as i take it, it becomes an even of tha past. if you think tha way this thread questions... without a past we would have still images that do not progress.

That means there would be no beginning and end. everything would have an infinite life with no movement...just like a picture. if there was no beginning or end, we wouldn't be here. it just isn't a solid theory.

You can't think of tha past as...tha past. rather, think of it like this. imagine a start and finish. stars are born, they die, planets are born, they die...etc. but does a star have a brain? of course not. so can it remember its past? no it can't. but to us a star can have a past because we can remember our past. everything is going thru stages...forever and ever advancing towards its death. therefore past is ONLY our memory.


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Last edited by HarmoNiC FLo on Jan 13th, 2005 at 02:52 AM

Old Post Jan 13th, 2005 02:50 AM
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Philosophicus
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Ou be Low hoo: "Disregarding a question of linguistics, I'd venture this...

The past exists only in the echoes that are felt in the present. If we listen to them, then the past exists as a means of validating improvement. If we ignore them, then past failures are reborn in present times."


HarmonicFlo88: "therefore past is ONLY our memory."

This makes sense. My theory is still that time is one single dimension and divided into an imaginary set of past, present and future, in order for the mind to make sense of it. Time is ultimately imaginary.


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Old Post Jan 13th, 2005 07:37 AM
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Ou Be Low hoo
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I don't dispute that the world and it's people have a history...Rather, I was commenting on whether 'the past' exists...which happens to be different and not on a solely linguistic level.

For me, the word exist has connotations of life. Therefore, I am musing on the life of 'the past' in the present.


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Old Post Jan 13th, 2005 08:38 AM
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Philosophicus
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"For me, the word exist has connotations of life. Therefore, I am musing on the life of 'the past' in the present"

Exactly, that's why I say Time is one dimension - 'life of 'the past' in the present" - imo you illustrate what I think, i.e. that all these instances/events and tenses of time fuse into one realm. That's why we sense life of the past in the future.


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Old Post Jan 13th, 2005 08:50 AM
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Shakyamunison
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There is no such thing as time or dimension. These are tools by which we measure the real world. We cannot directly perceive the real world; there has never been an evolutionary advantage to seeing x-rays or any other like phenomenon. If we look at a flame, we only see a shimmering color of light. We cannot see the chain reaction of molecules exchanging atoms. Causality is the reason we perceive time. There is a consistent relationship between cause and effect that only goes in one direction. Since all phenomenon are effects of a cause (a never ending closed loop), this common direction of cause and effects relationship gives us the sensation of motion that we call time.


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Old Post Jun 17th, 2005 12:36 AM
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Atlantis001
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I liked the observations that Shakyamunison and HarmoNiC FLo made. And thats what I think. The past only exist because of our memories, and our necessity to make cause and effect true, so for me if the past exist its just to fill a psychological necessity to explain the causes of the observed effects that we perceive in the present moment. Then time would be created by the necessity to order the events in a way to make cause and effect coherent.


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Old Post Jun 18th, 2005 02:43 PM
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Big Evil
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Re: does the past exist???

quote: (post)
Originally posted by eleveninches
Does the past exist, or is it just an illusion.

TIME is an illussion, I believe Einstien over any jerkass who comes up with an idea in this era..

See, the thing is the past has already happend, so it stopped exsisitng.
The future has yet to happen so it doesn't and will never exsist.

If you go somewhere deeper into space you'll find time as we know it has little to no meaning at all. Time IS an illussion. There is only speed and energy. Make that just energy as speed is just the flunctuating path of energy either gaining or losing in velocity..


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2005 05:11 AM
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Shakyamunison
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Hi Big Evil

Energy and Velocity are just tools that we use to measure the real world. There is the universe and it is temporal. Everything is changing at different rates. So, in a way I agree with you, however, I don't think you needed to call anyone a "jerkass"!


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2005 05:53 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
[BI don't think you needed to call anyone a "jerkass"! [/B]

There's no point in sugar coating my feelings, I believe anything outside Enstien is full of s-hit. Would you rather me LIE to you and say I value your opinion?


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2005 06:40 AM
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Shakyamunison
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I simply think that a foul mouth is a sign of a person with a little mind. You should start a topic "Is Einstein God?", otherwise I believe you are off topic here. Does the past exist?


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2005 07:31 AM
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Big Evil
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I simply think that a foul mouth is a sign of a person with a little mind. You should start a topic "Is Einstein God?", otherwise I believe you are off topic here. Does the past exist?

I answerd already, you had to go a play the whiny little b-itch. Again, not an insult incase you were too stupid to see that. Just the cold hard truth. Or are you a compulsive lier?

As I said, time is an illussion. There is only speed and energy. (So I technichaly stayed on topic. You failed at flamming me, so don't do it again. Next time I won't be so merciful..)


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2005 08:22 AM
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Shakyamunison
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Hi Big Evil

You should not get so upset. You may have your opinion all you wish, and I wasn't necessarily talking about you, just how I feel about bad language. Sorry if I offended you. However, I am new to all of this, how would I "flame you"?

Sorry for being off topic.

I know a great deal about Einstein, please tell me how my above statement is not in line with Einstein's theories.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2005 08:41 AM
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BackFire
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"Does the past exist?"

Not right now.


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Old Post Jun 19th, 2005 09:39 AM
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Atlantis001
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Re: Re: does the past exist???

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Big Evil
TIME is an illussion, I believe Einstien over any jerkass who comes up with an idea in this era..

See, the thing is the past has already happend, so it stopped exsisitng.
The future has yet to happen so it doesn't and will never exsist.

If you go somewhere deeper into space you'll find time as we know it has little to no meaning at all. Time IS an illussion. There is only speed and energy. Make that just energy as speed is just the flunctuating path of energy either gaining or losing in velocity..


How can just only speed and energy exist, if without time speed does not exist since it depents on time? About the energy, I agree.

Old Post Jun 21st, 2005 06:08 PM
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Shakyamunison
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Please define Energy without using undefinable words or words that talk about what Energy does, like, kinetic or potential.

I don't think it can be done. Just like time or the past, Energy is something we think is real, but we can't put are finger on it.


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Old Post Jun 21st, 2005 06:50 PM
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Atlantis001
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Please define Energy without using undefinable words or words that talk about what Energy does, like, kinetic or potential.

I don't think it can be done. Just like time or the past, Energy is something we think is real, but we can't put are finger on it.


yeah maybe, but every concept is like this... even mass, color, or other more "tangible" concepts. But energy is a concept that explains many other concepts and do not depend on them to be defined. I mean, energy is a very fundamental concept.

Old Post Jun 21st, 2005 10:17 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Atlantis001
yeah maybe, but every concept is like this... even mass, color, or other more "tangible" concepts. But energy is a concept that explains many other concepts and do not depend on them to be defined. I mean, energy is a very fundamental concept.


It’s OK to not know something. However, if we build models to represent what we don’t know and then use those to build even more models, then we can be lead astray and come to conclusions that are not supported by observations in nature (just read about Kepler). Sense Philosophy leads us down roads where conclusions can not easily be verified by observations in nature; we should always keep in mind what we do not know. When I talk to my mentor, he will make me brake all of my ideas down to their most basic concepts and then challenges me to understand these things first (however, this forum is a lot more fun).

Old Post Jun 22nd, 2005 01:41 AM
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DeVi| D0do
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The past exists only in our minds...


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Old Post Jun 22nd, 2005 01:46 AM
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