Thing and Reed can't hurt him. Johnny could possibly hurt him with his nova blast or whatever and I don't know much about Susan...maybe she could make a bubble in his brain or something I don't know, but what I do know is that if he really wanted to win he would knock all of them out with one punch at super speed.
Well with strength like Supermans just a tap from him would knock all of them out and that includes old blue eyes imo. Mix in the near lightspeed footspeed the FF might be in trouble.
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"I am not afraid of the dark the dark's afraid of me"
I don't know, but either way, Superman could just take her out first (at light speed). She's probably the biggest threat anyway. Then he can move to Johnny, Reed, and finally Thing. All of this in about half a second.
It's not a matter of history, it's a matter of how he could use his powers to their fullest extent. Super speed is just one of the many perks to Superman fighting all out.
That's not entirely fair. Superman rarely, if ever "speed blitzes" anyone, and even when he did fight "all out" (Doomsday?) he still (that I can recall) never speed blitzed anyone into submission. That's akin to saying that every Wolverine battle should be discussed with the implicit understanding that Wolverine will be in berserker mode (or, as the board says, "bloodlust"), and he has gone 'zerk more times than Superman has simply "speed blitzed" an opponent.
Superman loses, imo -- and to whomever asked if TIW is capable of that little forcefield in the brain trick, the answer is yes. Disagree? Recall in Wolverine #22 when he ran into The Invisible Woman and felt his lungs freeze up? She explained to him that she had a pair of her force fields resting in his lungs, and if he did not stop (he was under the control of Hydra), that she would double their size.
And btw, how on earth is Superman taking her out faster than she puts up a forcefield (that's a stretch considering there is no way to calibrate "the speed of thought")?
I realize that it might be considered a stretch in a battle, but he is capable of superspeed, and the rules for this whole forum say that each character (unless otherwise stated) will do whatever they have to do to win. Speed is one of Superman's greatest (and most rarely portrayed) abilities, the reason being that if he used it all the time, he would be unstoppable by many of the villains he faces. And, people would begin to question the Flash as a necessary superhero, which many people seem to already do.
And there is a "speed of thought", it's been measured. I don't know the exact speed, but I know it's been brought up in one of these threads, and was shown to be far slower than most "speedsters".
I quote Tron in the official rules and guidelines thing the mods posted:
"It's said that the speed of thought is about 30 m/s.
Note that it's meters per second, not miles"
Superman is faster than that, he's near light speed. I don't know how far away they all are from eachother when the battle starts, but it would have to be a considerable distance for Superman not to be able to reach Sue in time.
At first I was thinking Superman would win, but if there's prep time then the FF wins. Even without that, I still say the FF because Sue (or Johnny now) could pretty much blind him by making his retinas invisible and making a soundproof force field around his head to deafen him so everyone can take their best shots on him. Honestly I don't think any power the FF has other than Sue's powers would bother him. Then there's the whole putting force fields inside his body thing than sum1 already mentioned.
Yes IF superman were to go and "speed blitz" Sue would have to put up a force field and superman pounding on it like he would have to do would K.O. Sue from the feedback she gets. (I feel like every time I post on, or read a FF battle I end up mentioning that..) With Sue out, AND Reed with no prep time, Supes has it all wrapped up.
NOT SURE ABOUT THIS PART
Also if I remember correctly (which I probably don't), I think batman used some kryptonite on Superman once that turned his skin transparent or something like that (when batman beat the JLA <can't remember for sure tho> a while back) and either his body couldn't get the sun's rays, or his heat vision wouldn't shut off because it was going thru his eyelids uncontrollably or some thing like that... I really don't remember...but if thats the case with his heat vision, then Superman would probably just accept defeat so no innocents get hurt.
And all are assuming that Superman **would** use speed as an offense (or when going all out) when it has yet to be proven that he has done so...when going all out? That's my point. He has an ability (simply "speed punching" an opponent into oblivion) that I have never seen him use (even when in dire straits), yet it is safe to assume that, when going all out, he WOULD use it? That just does not make much sense. That's like saying that because I have teeth to bite that I WILL use them when I'm fighting, although whenever I fight, I never bite...but we've got to factor that into the equation when discussing my fighting "all out."
Furthermore...Superman fires the very same synapses that TIW fires in order to perform an action -- yet he would be able to will himself to travel at superspeed before she can will herself to put up a forcefield? Superman might TRAVEL at near light-speed (and this is incorrect; Flash does not even travel nearly that fast on earth), but he does not THINK that quickly.
As far as "Tron" saying that the speed of thought is 30 m/s, that's gospel? Can't be, considering Hermann von Helmholtz concluded that neurons communicate with each other at speeds more than thrice that (and that is Dr. Helmholtz's method of calibrating the speed of thought, which has not been universally agreed upon).
*shrug* Will just agree to disagree.
Superman cannot even overpower The Hulk (who is stronger than both Thor and Superman, by the way). Sue has very little to worry about as far as someone physically collapsing them.
Re: Batman using red kryptonite on Superman, red kryptonite (actually I think that it was synthetic) simply amplifies Superman's powers to painful levels. That was from Mark Waid's "The Tower of Babel" story arc.
Last edited by Never on Feb 16th, 2005 at 03:45 AM
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Superman vs. FF
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