That's not my hypothesis at all, I was just replying to comments on the last few pages or so.
On original topic - It depends on how you interpret the question "who is stronger". Lets look at it from a logical standpoint.
But lets deal with an assumption:
- Hulk gets stronger as he gets angrier, therefore his strength is potentially limitless.
This is a common statement, and attributes his increasing strength to his anger, the question is, is his anger unlimited? Imagine someone tortured, raped and killed Betty slowly in front of Hulk. I'd think that would induce the height of his rage (or close to) - this is my opinion.
The other point about this statement is that, assuming there is no limit to his anger, it is important to remember the key word is potentially limitless, not infinite. That is, at any point, his strength is at a finite level.
So back to the question - how do we measure who is stronger?
Do we go by lifting feats? This is a reasonable measure. As was pointed out that humans use this in competition to see who is "stronger".
But hang on, when would we get Hulk to lift an object, at his "normal" state, or when he is "angry"? Or why not even when he is "angrier"? Would Hulk even get angry at a lifting competition? No, he'd probably have to be in a battle scenario (which is the context of this question I imagine), yet if he was up against such a superior opponent, he would be knocked out before he could reach those mythical levels. I don't think it is feasible to assert Hulk gets stronger (that is really, angrier), outside of the context of a fight.
Then there is also the matter of his anger being an amp for Hulk. Is this fair? Independent of a rage-inducing situation, Hulk would not have increasing strength - like I said, for example at a lifting competition. If Hulk is allowed to be in a scenario that allows him to amp, then is it that far off from letting Superman get a sun dip, or even lift something while in the sun?
So in my opinion:
If we measured who was stronger at their normal states, Superman would be.
If we measured Hulk's average strength in battle, it would still be Superman.
If we, assuming Hulk's anger is unlimited, were able to induce his rage for an indeterminate amount of time, Hulk would be stronger. However, at the same time, if Superman were afforded the same benefit in the form of sun dipping then who knows, but I suspect Superman would be stronger at any point in time.
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Last edited by Placidity on Nov 6th, 2012 at 05:45 AM
(inhale ..exhale)
first of all your quote:
"I'd think that would induce the height of his rage (or close to) - this is my opinion."
Your opinion is not whats being debated Sir.
Now to entertain your "if hes angry or not" I have already stated that were going by his incresing anger. I may have not been clear on that or that may have not sunk in.
NOW, a sundipping Superman is powerful..YES indeed. but that still does not equate to the potential limitless anger x strength on the Hulk. No his limit has not been set so that leaves another option of a measuring stick that may not have a number high enough...just saying...
the true question is....are you, as a fanboy accept that Superman cannot do everything as you wish?
I enjoy Superman as well as you but I am not going to sit here and take a lesson in "he's stronger because I said so" from you gentlemen. It's just not the case.
"false retcons" are you talking about the birthright reboot, called a "reboot" by DC themselves? i even posted the link. me thinks the hate is with you.
you responded with assumptions. why would his flight help him lift objects earlier but not later? do you have some basis?
see, i've provided links, scans, and logic. the only thing you have provided to this argument is assumptions, rants, and continually calling me a hater because i disagree with you.
um, hulk doesnt sundip, doesn't need too, his increased strength is a natural ability. sundipping is an external power source for superman that requires him to fly as close as he can to the sun to get it. not even remotely the same. if anything it's more a handicap for supes when he gets in over his head.
Why would I hate on something you misinterpreted? Wasn't my fault.
I've already explained why, in multiple threads, Superman's powers shifted. His powers used to be willpower based. Like a Green Lantern. He was strong because he willed it so. He flew because he had willpower. That changed after John Byrne left, and his powers were just natural biological functions.
No, you really haven't. Not in the way you portray it.
I added that part in rather intentionally - rather than making an assertion and pretending it is fact. Whether you realize it or not, many things that have been said (including by you) you have been opinions and assumptions. You have to allow some room for them, judge if they are reasonable, and then further the argument for or against.
How did you come to the conclusion that I was a Superman fanboy? This is probably the first time you've seen me post. Is it because I making logical arguments in favor of Superman? By your logic, does that not make you a fanboy of Hulk who cannot accept that Hulk cannot do everything as you wish?
I was putting forth that the question in hand is not as simple as it appears, there are many issues to consider, without there being possibly only one true and fair answer. I don't think you've grasped the core of that. I think this is evident when you are still responding with "Hulk's strength is limitless".
I can agree to that...an emotional Superman who was holding back will unleash more of his power as needed. HOWEVER against a raging Hulk he will have to unleash a whole lot more to put an end to the destruction of a raging Hulk. and as I see it....kal- El may need help to do it.
what exactly am i misinterpreting? superman lifting infinity (LOL) or the scan where superman states his flight helps him. you haven't shown anything that says otherwise.
the debate is in this thread, not the other ones you have posted to in the past. you you need to present your proof here, not me look it up else where.
if supes powers changed after byrne then state what issue.
Fair enough, My apologies Sir If I have made a misjudgement of your fanbase.
Yes I have stated Hulks anger as "limitless" due to the fact that his anger has not been limited to my knowledge. His powers as stated in the books state that his strength increases with his anger and that is what I go by.
With that said Good Sir I ask you......How does Kal-El match a raging Hulk in strength whilst the Hulk is getting challenged and increasingly pissed?
Last edited by SMIFF-N-WESSON on Nov 6th, 2012 at 06:15 AM
I already addressed that in the last conclusion of my previous post.
You said you know Superman would win in a fight, but wanted to discuss who was stronger - clearly that implies "stronger" in a context outside of a fight.
I've addressed the complexities of this linked with the original question.
the problem with you argument is that hulk doesn't start at a set base and gradually build. it really depends on what pissed him off in the first place, his strength immediately jumps to that level, its instant.
again we're not measuring in battle, hulk does not have to be engaged in combat to be pissed and increase his strength.
Logic train:
being able to win a fight and being stronger are 2 different things.
Not that you could tell obviously from your rebuttle;
But allow me to educate you boy.
Lets say for example you can lift alot of weight, (applause) now lets say you fight well with your tenchique (applause). whats the difference....A WHOLE LOT.
So back to you playing with words...you fail my son, you should consider reading Thomas The Train Books before challenging the likes of me again Boy. Now scurry off before I get my belt!!!
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Nov 6th, 2012 05:31 AM
