When have you seen Hulk get tired and consequently revert to Banner? Did this happen in the same comic Superman punches Galactus? I really wish you'd stop making up lies.
Obviously, you haven't read many Hulk comics. It has been said countless times that Hulk's strength and anger has no limitations. The Beyonder himself has said that Hulk is an "infinity of power." Stop comparing Hulk to human emotion. They aren't equivalent. You should learn about the character before you post. Hulk's strength has no limitations, period.
You are a fool, current post crisis Superman can push the moon. The Hulk has never done anything that compares to Superman's feats.
Hulk didn't kick Superman's ass in a crossover. There have been three crossovers. Pre-crisis Superman vs Hulk, Hulk was punching Supes with his best and Superman wouldn't move. The second battle was voted by the fans in a DC vs Marvel Crossover, of course Superman won. (Doesn't count though since it was voted on). The recent battle was the 1999 Superman vs the Incredible Hulk. Again Hulk didn't "beat" Superman. Show me where he beat Superman, and throwing someone out of earth's orbit doesn't count. Since Superman can fly and hold his breath for a long time. The only way for Hulk to beat Superman would be for:
Oh by the way, Superman can also get more powerful the more stressed he gets.
Since I'm not a "well known member" I can't link this so I'll have to copy what is written in a Superman comic.
Adventures of Superman #636
Bad guy to Lex Luthor.
"Your theory was correct. His emotional state correlates to fluctuations in his solar storage. The more stress he's under, the more energy he retains from the sun."
Last edited by Redwolf on Apr 20th, 2005 at 11:18 PM
You mean, like move the Earth from it's orbit with a punch, or destroy an asteroid with a mass greater than twice the earth's? Or maybe move an anti-matter orb with the inertial mass greater than that of a neutron star? Hulk is much stronger than Superman. Superman hasn't done anything that compares.
Superman quits fighting before Hulk does, and then asks for his assistance. I consider that a win. It may not be a knockout, but Superman has never knocked out Savage Hulk either.
Pre-crisis Superman took one of Hulk's punches; his body shudders, but he is unmoved. He then blocks the next punch. Let's not forget that Savage Hulk knocks Superman out of Metropolis with one punch.
Superman can heal himself by absorbing sunlight. That is not regeneration. If Superman's head, or arm, or leg is removed, it will not grow back. The Hulk can regenerate from gamma irradiated cells.
Superman's strength doesn't increase. Depending on the amount of stress he is under, he can use more of the immense strength he already possesses. The Hulk's strength increases exponentially depending upon the amount of stress he is under; not necessarily anger; fear can cause an even greater increase in his strength. Superman may be moderately stronger to start, but the level of strength he can attain is limitless, hence, he can become stronger than anyone.
Last edited by Cosmic Cube on Apr 21st, 2005 at 12:48 AM
1.Hulk is the strongest being on all time. bar none. nuff said.
Agreed
2.Thor is a GOD, so he could muster the strength to defeat Hulk if he fought his ass off. He would probably need his Hammer though.
Agree on the 1st part, but the hammer well... i have to accept the 60sec rule.
3.Superman is an alien from Krypron, who posesses almost unlimited strength. Superman could defeat Thor in battle, but only by using his other powers (as seen in Marvel/DC crossover) Thor and Superman are about as strong as each other, but superman would win a fight between the two.
Disagree, equal in strength. Thor will edge out Superman cos of magical mjolnir. A fact that DC will have to accept.
3.Hulk is stronger than both of them.
True, indeed. Potentially, because of his anger his strength grows. But Thor was unbulge by a angry Hulk (defenders#10) for 1 hour. I believe Supes could do that too.
4.Superman is the most durable out of the 3.
Debatable, because this can't be proven.
5.Thor has potentail to defeat both of them.
Well, Superman yes, Hulk it will go either way
Thank you Cosmic Cube this is what I was trying to get accross (rather poorly I admit.) Hulk has never faced a situation where he's suddenly said to himself ''Bugger I can't get any angrier'' his strength has never faced an obstacle to my knowledge that he could not eventually overcome. By any logical thinking Jason8200 is right there should be a limit, but so far there hasn't been. Hell he's never even come close to a li it before.
Superman constantly exceeds previous limitations in strength as well. You will never, ever see a Hulk feat, no matter how ticked he gets, that will exceed what Superman can do. This has been explained at different times as fluctuations in Superman's emotions or as that he sees himself as human and that limits him, or that he can almost always push himself harder. Read the "No limits" storyline for an example.
In the second Superman/Spiderman crossover, he looked better than Hulk, but he didn't flat out defeat him. Superman stood his ground and took the blows. Saying something to the extent of, "nothing on this earth can move me". The Hulk was giving his best and couldn't move Superman. The reason Superman didn't take down Hulk was because he new what was causing him to get angry, something ringing in his ear if I remember right. Again not a victory for Hulk.
Regarding the "Superman VS Incredible Hulk" of 1999, you forgot to mention that, at 1 point, Supes punched Hulk through hills, then grabbed him, twisted him above his head, and threw him away. This despite, by Superman's own admission, Hulk saw him.
This happened right before Supes found out that the android who kidnapped Betty wasn't Hulk, but..well, an android.
So, if you consider this, both Supes and Hulk had their moments, but they just stalemated. It's not like Superman said, "Wow this Hulk is just too powerful so I give up." The fight was a stalemate, not a victory for Hulk.
I never said it was regeneration. You claimed Superman doesn't have a "healing" factor, I replied that he does. Like you said Superman can heal himself by absorbing sunlight.
Superman isn't moderately stronger to start, he's alot stronger to start. Superman is at moon pushing power levels. Unless he decides to take a sun bath then his powers go up even more.
In the 1999 crossover, Superman says that Hulk is "Strong. Stronger than anyone I've ever fought!" That would include Doomsday, the Hulk rip off.
Hulk's base strength is undefined. It is known to be greater than 100 tons. In a relatively calm state, Hulk has lifted a 150 billion ton mountain, and moved tectonic plates weighing several hundred trillion tons. That may very well be near his base strength. Superman is moderately stronger, at best.
A "healing factor" is what Wolverine has. He can heal himself without assistance from an outside source. Superman does not have a healing factor. Providing him with sunlight would be the same as providing a human medical treatment. That is not a "healing factor."
Hulk has punched the earth and moved it from it's orbit. If you haven't noticed, Earth is much bigger than the moon. Moving the moon through flight isn't really very impressive. Hulk has destroyed a planetoid with greater than twice the earth's mass. He has moved an orb with inertial mass greater than a neutron star. If you know anything about Physics, you'd know that this feat far outclasses moving the moon. Nothing Superman has done remotely compares.
Last edited by Cosmic Cube on Apr 22nd, 2005 at 02:35 AM
Exactly, the hulk in terms of pure physical strength is unsurpassed, he seems to have a limitless amount at his disposal, even if there is a limit none of the Hulk incarnations seem to have reached it yet, or even come close for that matter. Strength wise Hulk will eventually exceed everyone.
The whole third round, Supes was just trying to calm Hulk, while the green goliath was mad at him. The only time, in said round, that Supes did more than trying to calm him, Hulk was thrown inside a mountain with a punch.
We'll have to disagree with the healing factor. A human being can't heal from absorbing yellow sunlight. The fact that Superman can heal shows that "technically" speaking it is a healing factor. Not only that when Superman is injured, the yellow sun heals him completely. Depending on how close to the sun he is he can heal pretty quick. A human getting medical treatment will be "healed" eventually but will have scars (if cut) etc.
Superman has some amazing feats of strength aswell.
JLA: World War Three story-line: Superman was chained to the endless millwheels of the Mageddon machinery. His strength was used to move the gears of a weapon whose size dwarfed the entire Earth/Moon system. Once again it dwarfed the entire Earth/Moon System.
In Superman: The Earth Stealers, Superman propelled a massive space station, cylindrical in shape and stated to be 600 miles in diameter (the length of the cylinder, judging by the depiction, had to have been about 2500 miles ) by pushing against it. The weight was inestimable- it was constructed from all the natural resources gleaned from an entire solar system. A hyperspace portal was opened and Superman not only pushed it, he propelled it for 20 minutes through hyperspace (it was stated that they reached the halfway point at 10 minutes). He had to exert the power to move it at the same time that he had to deal with the stresses of hyperspace unprotected.
JLA #77: Superman contains a black hole in the palm of his hand for an undisclosed amount of time. Later, he produces static electricity sufficient to be "corralled" by Green Lantern John Stewart into containing the black hole. Superman then launches the black hole into a neighboring wormhole.
Action Comics #782: After emerging from the sun energized, Superman physically pushed WarWorld, (a small, Pluto-sized planet) across the solar system and into a boom tube. WarWorld did engage a full throttle countermeasure in resistance Supermans push. We can see WarWorlds engines (which encompass nearly an entire hemisphere of WarWorlds surface) firing in resistance, to no avail. WarWorlds; engines allow WarWorld to travel at faster than light speeds through space, so they generate the power to accelerate a planet beyond light speed.
Luthor 2000 special: Superman split one of Saturns moons with a single strike.
Again, Superman constantly exceeds previous limitations in strength as well. You will never, ever see a Hulk feat, no matter how ticked he gets, that will exceed what Superman can do. This has been explained at different times as fluctuations in Superman's emotions or as that he sees himself as human and that limits him, or that he can almost always push himself harder. Read the "No limits" storyline for an example.
Having a healing factor means that one can heal without using the assistance of an outside source. The Silver Surfer can heal himself by absorbing cosmic radiation. That isn't a healing factor.
JLA #77: Superman holds a microscopic black hole that is contained within Mnemons device, that made the JLA forget how to use their powers. The "microscopic black hole" obviously did not have the mass or the effect of a theoretical black hole. Not impressive.
I'm assuming that you mean that the metal, resources etc. from all of the planets in this solar system were used in constructing this spacecraft, seeing that it is impossible for all of the mass in a solar system to be compressed into a spacecraft with less area than New York, even using comic book logic.
If you could, provide scans and dates from each of these issues.
Even still, none of the feats Superman has performed surpass what Hulk can do, and has done. Resisting the matter-antimatter attraction is nigh impossible. It would be equivilant to moving the inertial mass of numerous neutron stars.
I have already seen Hulk do what Superman cannot. In mere minutes, Hulk has attained the strength level of a Celestial. Regardless of the storyline name, Superman has maxed out in the past, Hulk hasn't. Superman has limits. The Hulk doesn't.
Last edited by Cosmic Cube on Apr 23rd, 2005 at 01:38 AM
"In Superman: The Earth Stealers, (released in 1988) Superman propelled a massive space station, cylindrical in shape and stated to be 600 miles in diameter (the length of the cylinder, judging by the depiction, had to have been about 2500 miles ) by pushing against it. The weight was INESTIMABLE- it was constructed from all the natural resources gleaned from an entire solar system."
-Cosmic Cube, comic books are illogical. To say that what Superman did (in quoted paragraph above is illogical) for comic book standards is stupid. It happened, it was in the comics. The Hulk punching the earth and moving it from orbit is logical? The answer is no, comics are illogical.
-Justice League of America #36: World War III storyline started in December of 1999 and the final part six was in May 2000. This was post-crisis Superman moving the gears of an object that DWARFED the entire Earth/Moon system!
You replied in an earlier post:
"He has moved an orb with inertial mass greater than a neutron star. If you know anything about Physics, you'd know that this feat far outclasses moving the moon. Nothing Superman has done remotely compares."
Yet you say in your last reply:
"Resisting the matter-antimatter attraction is nigh impossible. It would be equivilant to moving the inertial mass of numerous neutron stars."
So it's okay if Hulk moves a mass equal to a neutron star, but when Superman does better it's nigh impossible? I know what you're doing, you don't like the fact that Superman has surpassed Hulk in the strength department. So now you're trying to make something like moving the inertial mass of many neutron stars as illogical even for comics. FYI comic books are illogical, they constantly do unscientific things.
It's clear you are a Hulk fanboy who dislikes Superman.
FACT:
In Superman: The Earth Stealers, Superman propelled a massive space station, cylindrical in shape and stated to be 600 miles in diameter (the length of the cylinder, judging by the depiction, had to have been about 2500 miles ) by pushing against it. The weight was INESTIMABLE- it was constructed from all the natural resources gleaned from an entire solar system. This was Post-Crisis Superman from 1988! He is alot stronger in 2005 than back in 88.
JLA: World War Three story-line: Superman was chained to the endless millwheels of the Mageddon machinery. His strength was used to move the gears of a weapon whose size dwarfed the entire Earth/Moon system. Once again it dwarfed the entire Earth/Moon System.
Hulk: The greatest feat of strength the Hulk has done is shattering an asteroid twice the size of the Earth, with a single punch.
-It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Superman has surpassed the Hulk. Don't get me wrong, the Hulk is an awesome character. He's just not stronger than Superman.
Superman hasn't maxed out. What are you talking about? Read the "No limits" story line. Superman has no strength limit because he constantly absorbs solar energy. In the "Our Worlds at War" storyline he took a sunbath and amped up his powers even more. He pushed War-World, which is the size of Pluto. Not only that but War-World was using it's thrusters (which covered the other side of the planet) against Superman. At full blast none-the-less, and Superman still pushed it.
In the DC One Million story line, 83,000 years from now Kal-el is still alive. He returns to earth after being gone for 67,000 years, and then hybernates in the sun for 16,000 years. He absorbed so much solar enegry that he is no longer recognizable (genetically) as a kryptonian. In fact he's golden in appearance...i.e. Superman has no strength limit since he can keep absorbing sun light. More he absorbs the more powerful he becomes.
Notice it is said that the starship was composed of the natural resources gleaned from a solar system. That doesn't mean that the craft had the mass of a solar system.
Comic books (for the most part) are quite logical. They may not be scientifically sound, but they are logical. Don't confuse logic with compliance with modern science.
Superman himself has said that Hulk is stronger than anyone he has ever faced.
Hulk's greatest feat of strength: Moving an inertial mass greater than that on a neutron star. A neutron star has an inertial mass far greater than that a solar system.
As I have said, and you have ignored, nothing Superman has done compares. Not holding a microscopic black hole, not pushing War World. Nothing.
When has Superman performed a greater feat of strength? None of the feats you have mentioned remotely compare to resisting the matter-antimatter attraction.
The longer Superman fights, the weaker he becomes. The longer Hulk fights, the stronger he becomes.
Superman's strength is not limitless, and it has never been said to be limitless. Superman's body is a solar battery that has a limit to the amount of solar energy it can absorb. When Superman absorbed all the sunlight he could, he emerged from the Super Sun, hence the name "Superman Prime." Superman's strength is not infinite.
Hulk is an infinity of physical strength, and he doesn't need any help from the sun, or anything else to get stronger. The more stress his body and mind are put through over time, the stronger he becomes. The more pain he experiences, the stronger he becomes. The more fear he experiences, the stronger he becomes. The more anger he experiences, the stronger he becomes. His insane regeneration makes it virtually impossible for him to die. I'm no fanboy, and I have nothing against Superman. I realize Superman is more powerful than the Hulk. He simply isn't stronger than the Hulk.
Superman's strength has a limit.
Hulk's does not.
Last edited by Cosmic Cube on Apr 25th, 2005 at 03:36 AM
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