how is it possible, u cant kill death. death manifiests itself. both lucifier and micheal are angels correct. angels can die. the war in heaven thing, said angels were dying etc.
You guys really need to read the Lucifer comic book. No offense, but it seems that your not all that familiar with it. It was EXPLICITLY said in Lucifer #26 that Lucifer and Michael created the multiverse. Which would only mean that they predate the Endless because the Endless came into existence shortly AFTER the multiverse was created. First was Destiny, then Death, followed by Dream, Destruction, Desire, Despair and Delirium.
The other Angels WERE NOT created before the multiverse. Lucifer #26, states that in the beginning there was only God, and then he created Michael and Lucifer, which shortly afterwards created the multiverse, thats it. It didnt state anything about the Angels existing before creation. the Endless even predate the Angels.
So in other words, the only beings that predate creation are The Presence, The Great Evil Beast, Lucifer Morningstar, and Archangel Michael.
And Lucifer an Michael was and always will be equal.
__________________ "You'd think part of omniscience would be knowing when to stop, but still..."
- Lucifer Morningstar
Last edited by Synchro on Apr 9th, 2005 at 02:43 AM
Also, Elaine is NOT more powerful than Lucifer, where did you get this stuff lionheartmm? Elaine's power came from Michael, which means that she will only be equal to Lucifer, not more powerful.
__________________ "You'd think part of omniscience would be knowing when to stop, but still..."
Synchro, wasn't it already mentioned that Michael is slightly more powerful than Lucifer? I've heard he kicked Lucifer out of heaven without God's help.
Actually The Word is the true First Archangel, he was created before both Lucifer and Michael, Swamp Thing #167 (6.96), this would sorta fit in with the LT story that Ive read about online, isn't LT suppose to be older then all of the Archangels??? if thats true then Living Tribunal = The Word. but that does not mean The Word(LT) is more powerful then Lucifer and Michael, Lucifer and Michael are Gods greatest and most powerful Archangels. also after God created Michael he then creates rest of the Archangels: Uriel, who rules worlds; Raphael, who oversees humanity; Saraquael, set over spirits; Gabriel, lord of Cherubim & Seraphim; Raguel, vengeance of Lord, once thought to be original incarnation of Spectre, Books of Magic v.1 #1. after that God and his Archangels create Heaven, after this The First of the Fallen has a argument with God about how The First does not agree with Gods master plan and his creation of Heaven, after this God sends the First to hell, after this The Presence directs Lucifer and Michael and they both make creation, big bang occurs. The First i believe is Satan "The Great Beast", Satan is suppose to be Gods worst enemy, The First of the Fallen was actually here BEFORE ANY of Gods Archangels, The First was His confidant and conscience. Satan is a part of God himself that is ripped out so he would not feel any pain that he would bring the universe. this also shows that The Presence is Gods holy presence because the ONLY being that can Predate The Presence is something that comes out of God directly.The Presence and The Great Evil Beast are equal in power but still God(Yahweh) himself is more powerful then both of them. Death of the Endless has said the only beings she has no power over is God/The Presence, Lucifer and Michael meaning probably that someday the Great Beast will prob die or return to God when everything is said and done .
__________________
The Word
Last edited by kevdude on Apr 9th, 2005 at 05:06 AM
Yeah DC's God's and Demon's are "Lame", because if they are really God's and Demon's then why are they afraid of Lobo and they ban Lobo whose power is only a brute force. If they are a real God they will just whisper that Lobo will vanish and it will come true but instead Lobo kick a lot of DC God's and Demon's Butts. It means DC God's can be beaten just by strength.
no Lucifer is the first fallen angel, Lucifer and Michael are the most powerful beings The Presence has ever created, the Great Beast is the Presence's equal and opposite, The Great Beast is the end of all things, also The Great Beast at 1 time was a woman, but I'm sure she/it/him or whatever, can chance into whatever sex it wants (or no sex at all). this also fits into The First of the Fallen storyline how God creates a companion, The First is the first being to be in a hell of its own making, when Lucifer fell, he was the 2nd to go to hell, The First was already their. The First was a part of God that is ripped out of HIMSELF...,also The Great Beast was not allowed in creation. The Great Beast was sleeping in hell since the Dawn of Time. the only being powerful enough to do that would the The Presence..........makes me wonder why Lucifer never got to go back to heaven he did want to go back but they wouldn't let him in so he decided to stay in hell and plot against The Presence, maybe The Presence wanted him their to try to stop Satan if she was ever awoken,
God"the Presence" / Satan"the Great Beast"
Lucifer and Michael have ony fraction of God infinite power, but already because of this fraction, they have infinite power, they are not equal at all. And Michael and Lucifer will awlays be the same, they were given infinte powers, and these power can't be developed to greater levels, so they are the same and will always be. Lucifer has only done more memorable things.
Last edited by Xplosive on Apr 9th, 2005 at 07:24 AM
talk about dc messing things up. In bible Lucifer was gods favourite angel, he fell, and then became satan, devil, great beast whatever u wanna call him. and in dc he and the great beast are 2 different people entirely wow.
Actually, it was Michael AND the Host Angels kicked Lucifer AND the Angel rebels. They never fought one on one. The only time they fought 1 on 1 was when Fenris took control over Lucifer, which isnt a good indication of who is stronger because Lucifer and Michael were already weakened before even their encounter with the Wolf.
1. You got a point about the Word being the first being after God. So I suppose the Word is among the beings that existed before the multiverse. Oh, and the Word is not an Angel, its just one of the manifestation of God.
2. You may have forgotten that Angels only existed in the DCU/Vertigo. Marvel doesnt have any Angels. It wasnt even stated that Marvel has their own Word. And even if there was, LT isnt the Word because TOAA entrusted LT to guard the multiverse, which theoritically isnt a job for the Word.
Also, Marveldirectory.com states that LT existed AS LONG AS the multiverse, not before it. Unless you can give me references which states otherwise.
Does this Books of Magic v.1 #1 also said that God created first Lucifer, Michael, and the Angels before creating the multiverse? Coz it sure as hell isnt like that in Lucifer.
Can you give me reference as to why the Presence and Yahweh are not one?
And im confused, you said that Lucifer is the First of the Fallen, but then you said that First of the Fallen was the Great Evil Beast???
Last edited by Synchro on Apr 9th, 2005 at 09:21 AM