What are you stating that because yoda is the head he is the strongest. If you want to place the order in terms of strenght then wouldnt that make anakin the head of the order. I think it is placed in a state of experience and knowlede not power so you cant say yoda is better than mace by that alone.
It has never said anything about Mace being able to beat Yoda.
ok lets look at this AGAIN
1) its quite obvious that Yoda is the head of the jedi counsel
2) it has been said that Yoda and Dooku had beaten Windu
3) i think (given the dialogue of palpatine) that he was playing posse um with windu i mean think about it, do u REALLY think that palps would say something like "I'm too weak. Don't kill me. Please" if he was not playing around...
4) it has been said that yoda is better (despite the "as powerful as master windu line, which causes problems)
5) NO ONE can argue that windu is more powerful in the force then yoda is
6) Yoda lives, mace does not (even if anakin helped palps)
7) Yoda's age are an advantage and a disadvantage. he has more control of the force now because of his age, but his agility has probably decreased (which is crazy cause i mean look at yoda still....imagine what he was in his prime :blink
all of these factors (im sure i forgot some) pretty much say that yoda is the best...i really dont see how people can argue that windu is better. i thought it was common SW knowledge that yoda was the best (other then Palpatine)
And once again- if Palpatine doesn't need Anakin's help to kill Mace, then what's the point of Anakin? This is the only point in the entire trilogy where Palpatine could conceivably legitimately *need* him. If he doesn't change the outcome of the battle here, then the Sith would have risen with or without him. To keep any semblance of the theme even remotely intact, Anakin MUST be instrumental in allowing the Sith to rise again. The only way that this can be the case is if he saved Palpatine from Mace, which would require, obviously, that Mace would have killed Palpatine without Anakin's intervention.
Mace is the best at what he does. Yoda is the best at what he does. I don't see the need to put the two against one another. In the star wars community it is stated that mace considers himself a padawan compared to Yoga and yet yoga has the upmost respect for Mace. Mace would never go all out against Yoda and he would never go all out against dooku when they were friends. so we may never know who is better. However, it is clear that Mace was the only one who could have taken palpatine down. His style of fighting was born for that. Palpatine toyed with Mace and Anakin psychologically because he knew what the outcome was going to be. But he clearly beat...I repeat clearly beat palpatine in sword play. Palpatine used his dark force powers to defeat windu after anakin severed his sword on. I am no in the least bit concerned with who is the best cause without a doubt windu, and yoda's are bad mofo's. i only wonder is there a possibility that mace might have survived that fall.
Registered: Apr 2005
Location: I know where I would like to be
Thats what im wondering if he survived...make for a really good new book for time between movies...and Mace couldnt take Yoda in duel cause his style is for battling dark side.....he needs darkness to feed his style from what Ive read.....Yoda would slice and dice him .....but Mace was best tailored to fight Palps no doubt....
Original:
It has never said anything about Mace being able to beat Yoda.
ok lets look at this AGAIN
1) its quite obvious that Yoda is the head of the jedi counsel
2) it has been said that Yoda and Dooku had beaten Windu
3) i think (given the dialogue of palpatine) that he was playing posse um with windu i mean think about it, do u REALLY think that palps would say something like "I'm too weak. Don't kill me. Please" if he was not playing around...
4) it has been said that yoda is better (despite the "as powerful as master windu line, which causes problems)
5) NO ONE can argue that windu is more powerful in the force then yoda is
6) Yoda lives, mace does not (even if anakin helped palps)
7) Yoda's age are an advantage and a disadvantage. he has more control of the force now because of his age, but his agility has probably decreased (which is crazy cause i mean look at yoda still....imagine what he was in his prime :blink
all of these factors (im sure i forgot some) pretty much say that yoda is the best...i really dont see how people can argue that windu is better. i thought it was common SW knowledge that yoda was the best (other then Palpatine)
My response:
It has never said anything about Mace being able to beat Yoda - TRUE
ok lets look at this AGAIN
1) its quite obvious that Yoda is the head of the jedi counsel
- NOT TRUE - Mace often decides things, speaks, and then Yoda agrees
2) it has been said that Yoda and Dooku had beaten Windu
- True, but Vader beats Luke at one point, then Luke beats him...it happens, sometimes you lose to people worse than you. Heck, Ani loses to OB1.
3) i think (given the dialogue of palpatine) that he was playing posse um with windu i mean think about it, do u REALLY think that palps would say something like "I'm too weak. Don't kill me. Please" if he was not playing around... - FALSE! When Mace actually beats Palps, Ani isn't in the room - go see the movie! When Ani walks in, Palps is on the ground, lightsaber gone, and Windu above him, victorious. MACE DOESN'T ALMOST BEAT PALPS - HE BEATS HIM...he just doesn't kill him.
4) it has been said that yoda is better (despite the "as powerful as master windu line, which causes problems) - FALSE! - as you said, that line disproves the other one.
5) NO ONE can argue that windu is more powerful in the force then yoda is - That depends. Mace is not more powerful in the light side, but clearly is more powerful in his knowledge of the dark side, without being seduced by it. Mace is the only living Jedi able to use the dark side, controlling it, rather than having it control him...even Yoda doesn't try that!!!
6) Yoda lives, mace does not (even if anakin helped palps) - True, but Yoda doesn't have Ani attack him unexpectedly.
7) Yoda's age are an advantage and a disadvantage. he has more control of the force now because of his age, but his agility has probably decreased (which is crazy cause i mean look at yoda still....imagine what he was in his prime :blink) - This doesn't mean he's more powerful than Mace - Ani is yonger than most Jedi, and more powerful than all of them!
I think they are different creatures, but I gotta go with Mace on this one, but they're eve.
Palps doesn't let Windu win, because Ani isn't there to see it when Palps falls...and he's fighting his heart out...plus, watch his face when his saber goes out the window - dude looks SCARED, and Ani isn't there yet.
its all a matter of timing...hence previously you got the force telepathy scene where anakin hears palpatine saying "if you let them kill me then padme will die" or something to that effect...he knew anakin was coming
Mace is clearly the better swordsman, and just because someone was beaten before, doesn't mean it'll happen again. Oftentmes, it's less likely as any great fighter will learn from his mistakes.
Yoda is the man. Palpatine constantly initiated his force attacks from a distance. He matched Yoda in sword play only because Yoda is a weaker sword fighter. NO ONE can defeat Yoda in Force knowledge. No one. Everyone who knew Yoda knows that the only way to have a chance with him is through a sword fight. It's proven in Attack of the Clones with the Dooku duel and now in Sith.
Mace is the strongest sword fighter. He doesn't use a lot of excess movements. To be honest, a true master doesn't need to use a lot of moves. One can be deadly enough. They know they can't play with Mace because one move might be all it takes. Fighting Yoda on the other hand requires a LOT of swordplay moves because of his flurry of attacks in battle. But Yoda is not the best swordfighter. But he is swift.
The rest doesn't need to be explained. Anakin obvious had the sword fight the whole time, but Obi taught him so there was the issue of the pupil succeeding the master, as any good pupil WILL do. I think that Obi would have eventually run out of moves. He got lucky.
Palpatine is very knowledgeable in the Force AND a decent swordfighter. But outclassed. If Yoda and Mace attacked him, he would be dead. Period. Palpatine could not even defeat Mace one on one. Mace could NOT have deflected the force bolts. He isn't centered enough to be so. He is more emotional and physical power. To be honest, Mace would have lost if he DIDN'T have his lightsaber. If it was a one on one force battle, Mace would have lost, period.
Why does everyone think Yoda could never lose a force battle? In both Episode II and Episode III, he DOES lose a force battle. Dooku and Palps can't beat him in the saber battles, so he uses the force...in two, Dooku uses it to threaten the lives of Ani and Obi by dropping that collumn on them, and in three, Palps uses it with those cool Senate pods...and clearly, in both cases, while Yoda does well, he ends up unable to handle the situation as well as either of the Sith.
Apr 26th, 2005 09:50 AM
