But it's not actually a cover is it? It's an original song, similarities notwithstanding. Unless it's a factual cover song, like the ones on Garage Inc, it's not a cover.
It tells us that you are making blind assumptions with no correlation to strengthen your ailing argument.
Cine mentioned albums that gave birth to thrash, you said you were talking about when they formed, actually formed. That wasn't the birth, it might have been when the idea was conceived, but not born. The original material was the birth.
You mentioned their original setlist, they played 3 original songs. All of which were on their demo, No Life 'Til Leather. All of which made it onto their debut album, Kill 'Em All.
Who the hell said anything about knowing more bands? Any dipshit on the internet can find a list of bands to post.
Gee, I thought discussing knowledge of the thrash and metal genre, as is what I am talking about, would be on topic......
Huh? Tell you what, rather than you continually spout your drivel about me assuming what you do or do not know, how about actually displaying what you do or do not know...THAT would be more on topic for this thread.
No, it tells us that those covers being played had a far greater impact on the genre of thrash being formed than you think.
The original material was written before the albums relases [naturally] and the songs actually changed quite a bit between their first inception and their album versions. Ever hear the first recordings of hit the lights, or mechanix, or metal mitlitia? [and no, the no life tl leather demo was NOT the firt recordings of the songs, FAR from it in fact]
So what? You just vindicated my point that thrash was born and had a following before the albums were released.
Yes I have, I'm not denying similarities am I? No. Is it a cover song? No, it's not.
It didn't form the genre though did it? No. It didn't give birth to thrash did it? No. Influencing and creating are two different things. Regardless of the similarities, the overall sound is much different in thrash.
I've heard the first recordings of those songs. The only way they're different on No Life 'Til Leather is the obvious recording difference and the tightness of the way they played it. They are so drastically different that you can claim some covers gave birth to thrash metal. You're confusing yourself.
Your point was that you were talking about thrash being born when the bands formed. Which it wasn't, because alot of them formed, performed covers and THEN wrote original thrash metal material that sounded vastly different to all the songs that inspired them.
Thrash metal was given a true form when those bands created their original material, alot of which ended up on the respective bands debut albums. As Cine pointed out, and as you tried to counter.
Where?All I've seen is you drop what every fly by night metal fan knowsfrom reading one of the 10 million or so metallica pages out there.
No. Good lord, are you really this inept? I said I know more about the genre and the bands, nothing was said about the number of bands [though at this point I'm willing to bet I know more bands than you anyway]
ME? YOU are the one that had to go down that whole "opinion" tangent in the other thread because you got SPANKED when talking about guitar ability in the other thread. YOU are the one who tried to take this thread into a seperate direction with your whole "reasoning behind claiming that you know more" shtick
See MY posts. Instead of me continually shooting down your wal-mart magazine rack knowledge, how about you actually dispute what I claim by displaying knowledge rather than try to take this thread into 3 different tangents like you predictably do when you are being defeated.
Here, do yourself and everyone else a favorStick to the topic. The topic is slayer and thrash metal, NOT about how someone came to "x" conclusion. Of course, my bet is you won't.
Yes, it is ironic how the person claiming to know it all, attempting to spank everyone and claiming the knowledge, continues to reply to me in two discussions instead of focusing his so-called brainpower on the topic at hand.
No only am I not one of those, despite your blind intent to label me one out of fear. Here is where you said it, this must be over the 5th time I've shown you: "Just because I have forgotten more about metal music/bands than you will ever know is no reason to embarrass yourself like that."
Says the guy who had to have his own quote shown to him more than 5 times and still denies he said it.
Not only did you just confirm it, but you confirmed it within the context of the thread. WHERE are you basing that on? Nothing. Why would I go on a rant about bands or metal bands when I don't actually need to? Why would I go naming lots of metal bands when I don't actually need them to prove my point? Silly.
Where are you getting all this "I know more bands than you"? Seriously. We've discussed one genre, a maximum of three bands.
Exactly, that was the other thread. It's not exactly on topic here is it? Secondly, I didn't get spanked because that whole guitar issue was your opinion and seeing as you were claiming opinion can't be wrong (which you ALSO got proven wrong in), you were wrong.
Because you made a completely presumptuous and ignorant claim and I was curious as to where you based it.
What I don't understand is why you're getting frightened. Seriously. Stop saying "Show me this, show me that", when I actually am and you continue to reply to this needless BS instead of the posts I'm making that are countering everything you have to say. If you're so sure that you're better than I am. Drop all the irrelevance in THIS post and THIS irrelevant discussion, and we can get back to me educating you on thrash metal.
Why are you telling me to stick to topic? I actually said to you, stop replying to my posts HERE (meaning this completely other discussion) and reply to my relevant ones. You chose not to.
Now, you're almost definately going to reply to this instead of staying on topic with my other posts. So you're only cementing yourself a more hypocritical stance.
I just doubt you've heard it. Tell me, how are they similar then? [sorry, I just don't believe you and require validation]
Yes, it did form the genre. Like I said earlier, thrash is the melding of nwobhm musicianship and the speed/attitude of punk. Now I know you haven't heard that song. No one who has would say that those songs sound much different than thrash.
Check and mate. You know that they were played in different tempos, right? You know that some of the riffs were altered, right [like in jump in the fire, for example] You're inventing arguments that make no sense
No, YOUR point that you were backing up someone else on was that thrash was born with the release of the albums. MY point was that thrash existed before the albums and already had a decent sized fanbase.
Again, you're trying to invent points. I said thrash was born when nwobhm was melded with punk. HE said it was born when the albums were released. Common sense should tell you it would have to have been created prior to an albums release.
Seriously. I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
What makes you think I care if you believe me or not. Either way, the only way they're similar is the song structure throughout and THAT isn't even as close to it being a "damn near cover song." They're both fairly incendiary songs but they are by no means so similar that it's a cover. The guitar, if you listen without trying to compare, isn't actually as close as Hit the Lights. Why? Because nobody else can play to the rhythm level as precise as James can.
Going back to the structure of the song, structure similarities aren't any reason to claim it's damn near to being a cover. Lots of songs sound similar. Metallica actually have an orchestral writing technique and didn't even know it until they met Kamen, does it mean they were trying to cover Beethoven? No it doesn't.
No, it didn't. Influence isn't an equal to creation. Nothing Judas Priest or Sabbath ever put out sounds like Raining Blood, Angel of Death, Motorbreath, Seek and Destroy etc.
The actual songs themselves were not changed, the writing wasn't changed, only the playing as I said. The tightness of which they played. They didn't DRASTICALLY alter the songs.
You specified it was born when the bands were. Which is not only impossible but factually untrue.
When they formed and started playing, thrash metal didn't miraculously come out did it? Let's think about what you're claiming.
Where's that definition of irony at, because the person who started taking this thread in two discussions telling someone else who is replying to it that they are being ironic is surely the definition of irony.
Jesus christ, you can quote that 1 million times if you want, until you actually try to dispute it, it stands.
Says the moron too stupid and illiterate to see that no one ever denied saying it
Confirmed that you are incapable of comprehension. Your posts. You're right, why would you need to show you have more than a basic knowledge of the genre or the bands in it in a thread on the subject Why would anyone need to list as many bands as they could when no one ever asked them to?
No, where are YOU getting the "I know more bands than you" quote from?
WTF? What the hell does that have to do with anything?No you got spanked because you were trying to argue that "kerry king is one of the greatest players" and I used FACT [facts that you don't comprehend because you don't know what goes into making a guitar player good] about his ability to show he wasn't one of the best.
And I told you what it was based on, yet you continue to spout off about it over and over.
What I don't understand is why you think anyone is frightend of someone with little more than basic knowledge on a subject. You've shown NOTHING You have posted nothing that anyone can't go pick up an issue of metal edge and read. What I want is you to show that you have an understanding of the genre beyond that what is told to you. You're not countering anything! If anything, you just suppoert my posts because common sense is on my side. How could YOU educate ME when I continuously display more knowledge than you? Your logic baffles me there.
Because YOU are the one notorious for starting to take threads in different directions once you'e been owned on topic.
And as usual, you will reply to this, not only making you the hypocrite [considering you're the one that takes the threads on seperate tangents to begin with] but will also prove beyond a doubt as to your idiocy.
I didn't quote it because I wanted to, I quoted it because you asked me where you said it.
Why am I going to try to disprove it in a thread where I don't need to? Besides, I could name all the bands I know, all the bands I listen to and you could still use the coward technique of "Anyone can get a list of bands off the net" despite it quite clearly not being true.
You asked for the quote. I didn't.
Illiterate has nothing to do with perceptive ability in this context so not quite sure why you keep throwing that word around.
As I said twice above. You asked for the quote.
Well as long as you acknowledge that you making the continued assumption that I have a basic knowledge of the genre is exactly that, an assumption. We're good. Because factually you are wrong, "Prove it." Why? So you can say "Look how off topic you are" and "Anyone can name those bands"? This is a forum, dude. I've seen people with that tactic all the time, you're no different.
Here: "though at this point I'm willing to bet I know more bands than you anyway". Might wanna get the memory sorted out.
What does anything in this post, in your replies, have to do with anything either? You keep replying to me so you can hide from the fact that I'm smacking you around on topic.
You didn't use fact, you used opinion. You posted a belief, time after time, that you believed with confidence. Which is what an opinion is. If it was fact, nobody on this thread could deny it in the face of evidence. We can, have, and proved you wrong. Because you believing something to be a fact doesn't mean it is one.
So you based it on the fact that we're discussing Slayer and thrash metal...right. Not too logical or right, for that matter. Here's a tip: How about you stop running scared and DISCUSS thrash metal? Rather than keep replying? Because I'm right either way. So I've got nothing to prove here. The burden of proof is on you, since you made the claims.
A) There's the assumption that I have basic knowledge despite the fact that I'm continually countering you whenever you get the courage to stay on topic.
B) You haven't posted anything that a person can't find out on the net. Have you? No.
Then put your knowledge where your mouth is, stop hiding behind replying to this material, and lets see if we can keep it to thrash metal, shall we? The burden of proof, is on you. You are making these claims of displaying more knowledge (which you haven't, at all), so prove it. Stop replying to me pointlessly and prove what you think you can.
Considering you are the one who replies quickly and shyly to my on topic posts, yet spends most of his time replying to this discussion, I'd say you are the one taking it in the wrong direction. I've continually said to you that as long as you wanna reply, I will. But don't go so far as to accuse me of keeping it off topic when you aren't doing anything to change it. The sooner you get back on topic, and only on topic, the sooner I will.
Bearing in mind that the last on-topic post was by me.