Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
He's not, I agree. But I do believe he's being pushed up to God status which he doesn't rightly deserve. Now if Maul was a mad slayer of Jedi and a survivor of some large war or battle, I would change my opinion drastically. But the fact remains that he had a long way to go to realize his full potential, and he was cut down.
I don't think Maul is weak, and lately, I've been researching both Maul and Mecha-Vader and amping my opinion on both. I think Maul would actually kill AotC Anakin, but I feel that AotC Obi-Wan is just too resourceful in addition to defenses that Maul couldn't break. I think Maul would slip and Obi-Wan would take him.
You forgot that Obi-Wan, by this time, has changed his form from the defensive form that Qui Gonn and himself used against Maul to a more agressive type.
..No, actually you have it backwards. Qui-Gon Jinn used the Ataru lightsaber form, which used Force-assisted jumps and movements in order to better get at vital points and/or catch the opponent off guard. It's far more aggressive than Soresu, the super defensive form that Obi-Wan switches to after Qui-Gon dies, believing that Ataru has a literally fatal flaw in it.
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Well, Jack, I like Maul. Actually, having watched the fights over and over again gave me a lot of respect for his style and confidence. But he just keeps getting in these versus threads where he brings little to the table and the other people can more easily be declared the victor. I'm not saying he's worthless. I actually like the guy now, whereas before I thought he was fanboy bait.
I'm going to retract that statement. I watched the fight a couple of times since I got bored at my friend's house and I see that neither Maul nor Obi-Wan had much of an advantage. If anybody got the drop on anything, I'd say it was Obi cutting Maul's saber in half and Maul Force pushing Obi off the ledge. So I felt the need to give credit where credit is due: Maul is a total bad-ass, but I like the way he handles a single saber better than the double-bladed. But maybe that's me being biased; I like single sabers better.
I'm starting to wonder if it wasn't the more aggressive Ataru form that Obi-Wan used against Maul's Juyo that gave him the edge he needed to win. Would the Soresu form be as good? I still think that Obi-Wan would hold off Maul long enough for him to make a mistake, and then Obi-Wan would get him. But it wouldn't be an easy fight at all.
Going on the defense against Maul is brilliant actually. Maul would attack with rage and a staff, i don't know if any of you ever used a weapon like that, but it makes you tired fast. Especially if you put all your anger in it. Not to mention that its incredibly hard to defend yourself with a weapon like that.
If you could manage to hold of the attacks of Maul then it would be a piece of cake to kill him later on. When he's tired.
Maul didn't get anywhere near tired in the fight against Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon. The whole time the energy walls were blocking them he was pacing the floor and projecting menacing thoughts towards them both. And I truly think Maul would be the one to spot a weakness. Look at how many times he does it in Episode 1. 6 or 7 roughly. Look at how many times they (together) spotted a weakness in Maul. 3 times. Obi-Wan had to use everything he knew just to stay alive in the fight. Maul was far stronger than both of them and I don't think he would consider his opponents defeated if there's no open hole to fall into.
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Yeah, i know he doesn't get tired fast, doesn't mean he won't get tired. If you are a master defender then you can hold on long enough. But i don't think they will need it, Maul his technique is based on the attack of one person. Not more, Maul will have a hard time attacking more opponents with a lightsaber and especially when they are both attacking. Its almost impossible to block with the weapon Maul uses.
Tobad Anakin and Obi have different fighting style's though, if they would choose one and go with that, they would win.
Maul did just fine defending against two lightsabers in TPM, and Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were more skilled and would work better as a team than AotC Kenobi and Anakin.
Actually if you compare it like this, AotC Kenobi vs Qui-Gon, it is probably a tie, maybe Qui-Gon is a bit better. And TPM Kenobi vs AotC Anakin, while Kenobi is better there. So if you take that, Maul won against two stronger opponents.
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also, a problem with AotC Kenobi and Anakin is that they wouldn't work well together, Anakin would rush in swinging, and Obi-Wan would hang back and play defense. At this point, the two do not work well, Maul would divide and gain the victory.
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: The Dark Side of the Force
Well IMO AOTC Obi-Wan is actually better than Qui-Gon because in TPM Obi-Wan wasn't that far behind Qui-Gon and he simply got better as AOTC came around. Maul had to separate Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon to make it easier because IMO, he was overwhelmed by both of them at once. Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon rarely fought together because Maul kept kicking one of them away. I would still put my money on the duo because IMO AOTC Obi-Wan alone can defeat Maul. But I do agree that Maul has a chance of winning, and if the Obi-Wan and Anakin get their asses kicked, it will most likely be Anakin's fault.
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Sure, a staff makes you tired, but we're also talking a weapon more than 50% made of weightless energy. And it's not hard to defend with a staff at all.
Not at all. Obi-Wan had no advantage in the fight, this is true, but neither did Maul until he Force pushed him into the shaft. There was no desperate attempt to stay alive on Obi-Wan's part. Hell, he cut Maul's weapon in half and forced him onto his back.
Since this is AotC Jedi Knight Obi-Wan Kenobi, I'm going to say the TPM fight is almost irrelevant here Kenobi-wise. Obi-Wan fights very differently in either movie. So the real question is, was it Obi-Wan's use of the Ataru form that gave him his edge in TPM and will the Soresu form be just as good, worse, or better against Maul?
quote:
Obi-Wan had to use everything he knew just to stay alive in the fight.
well that's what it said in the book when the fight first started with both of them fighting Maul. But yes it would be different because Obi-Wan changes styles (imo) to a weaker one. AOTC Obi is probably better than Qui-Gon, but he and Anakin just don't work as a team and I think Maul could kill both of them together.
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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
I don't exactly consider Salvatore's description of the fight to embody what I recall seeing in the movie. Obi Wan, after the death of Qui Gon, was very much on top of things.
That was said in both the junior novel and the regular one. Yes Obi-Wan did well, but if Qui-Gon hadn't died he wouldn't have done nearly that well and that won't really happen until either Obi or Anakin dies. Besides, look at how long it took Maul to defeat Obi. A minute? maybe less? Yes Obi got a hit on Maul but Maul got Obi twice and then he was defeated. Put them in the hangar and I truly doubt Obi would have been able to surprise Maul. Besides, we never saw him defeated by a stronger opponent so he could've been as strong as Dooku (with a lightsaber).
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If Qui-Gon hadn't died, Maul would've been dead anyway. One of them was going down; if not Qui-Gon, it would've been Maul.
Maul got Obi once. He kicked Obi-Wan in the face, but Obi-Wan landed on his feet, none worse for wear. Only the Force push gave Maul any sort of advantage.
Why would you think this? Is Maul unable to be surprised without the use of a giant hole in the ground? Use some imagination.
I still think Obi-Wan has a good chance to win, but I never said Maul didn't either.
May 3rd, 2005 01:12 AM
