You mean should you leave your wife and your child for what you once had with someone you thought was dead? I can't answer that, but we have seen the results of that.
He seemed perfectly capable of accepting what Jean was in Endsong. That's only after years of him denying who she was, as well as asking her to deny her powers. What changed?
Look at X-Factor. Jean kept telling her she wasn't anyone else but herself, and he refused to believe it. Somewhat understandable, but not her fault. Remember Alaska? When Jean started using more and more power, he freaked out. During New X-Men, when she started using more and more power, he freaked out. No one else had an issue with what she was doing. He wanted to hold on to an idea of her from their early days, but he expected her to acknowledge that he was different since Apocalypse. "I want you to be this type of person because it makes me comfortable and it's what I need, but you need to accept me for what I currently am." Come on now...That's a double standard if I ever saw one.
And Scott's always the one that saves everyone, because the X-Men aren't a team. They don't watch each other's backs. It's just him.
You haven't suggested any overtly or covertly selfish behavior on the part of Jean. The only things that have been shown are how selfish Scott can be. Before NXM, she held back on using her powers for Scott, but finally began flexing more of her mental muscle. During NXM, Jean went to Xavier so that he could tell Scott that she wasn't evil. So much of her action during that run was focused on them, their marriage and Scott (including putting Emma back together for him AFTER she found out about their affair because Scott needed her), while he was focused on himself (Emma, Weapon X, etc).
madelyne was a psychopath... and scott hadnt had a chance to grieve whatsoever...
endsong was recent, he's had years to get over her, and emma is in the picture now...
she started wearing her phoenix outfit... he goes rogue, the x-men can take him down... she goes rogue? some stars get eaten up... its not a double standard, its just different...
so why do they stick together? spend hours in the danger room?
miss "self involved i'm so perfect" jean? who should have told logan to go f*ck himself but didnt? ultimate x-men jean did... mainstream couldnt?
scott is not perfect, but when it comes down to it, if xavier dies tomorrow, scott is left to pick up the slack. not emma, not wolverine, him. selfish? because he wants some attention from his wife? because he doesnt want her to turn into the phoenix again?
the guys not perfect, but he is just that, a guy... who's power stops him from ever losing control of himself...
Scott had a chance to grieve. He didn't take it. He became invovled with Maddie by choice. No one forced him into the situation. No one prevented him from mourning Jean. His choice. Maddies mental state is secondary. She wasn't unstable until AFTER he left her and his son.
So your point about Scott being able to deal with Jean dying is moot, then isn't it? He's been able to work through it because he's had time and he's got another woman...
Because we all know that the X-Men were able to take down Apocalypse. They did such a great job that Cyclops merged with him In the end it was Jean and Cable that saved Scott and defeated Apoc, not the X-Men. And it's not the same. You're thinking of evil in terms of degrees. It doesn't really matter. You forgot that Scott and Jean were in the future and saw the world that Apocalypse created, how many people died under his hand. It's not different. Whether it's a planet in another star system or Earth thousands of years in the future, evil is evil and genocide is genocide.
Perhaps he should have thought about helping his wife to grow and learn how to deal with her powers instead of running away from them. When Jean first became Phoenix, she didn't really have a chance to work with her powers, to grow into them. When she does, her husband runs away in fear instead of trying to help her.
That's exactly my point. They are a team. It's what they do. I was being sarcastic before.
The same could be said of Scott...and Maddie...and Emma...and Psylocke...and Colleen...He made a choice to be with these women, sometimes when Jean was around. She never made a choice to be with Logan.
Scott would take over because Jean isn't there. I always felt that if Xavier died, Scott would take over the X-Men, and Jean would run the school and X-Corps. I always felt like he was grooming them specifically for those jobs.
As far as him being selfish, note that everything you said was what HE wants, not what's best for everyone. When did Jean not give him attention? At the beginning of NXM, you see her confront him about their lack of intimacy, and he just wants her to read his mind instead of directly dealing with the issue. He turns to Emma instead of his wife, not because he couldn't, but because he wouldn't. He didn't even turn to Xavier. Who better to help you work through something like the Apocalypse situation than the two people who know better than anyone else what it's like to lose control...what it's like to be what you most fear?
He never listened to Jean about her growth in power. He didn't want her to be Phoenix because it made him uncomfortable. What she said didn't matter. What Beast said "Jean's a grown-up omega mutant" didn't matter, because it wasn't what HE wanted. Yes, I consider that to be selfish when your spouse wants you to understand what they are going through, but you refuse to listen.
Perhaps that's the whole problem. He treats everyone like everyone is a Scott Summers. Kurt addressed this way back in Uncanny 109:
"I have a name, Scott. Kurt Wagner, remember?...Perhaps you are right. I've had a prett easy life so far. I guess--not at all like you. For example, I've never had to worry about optic beams--I've only been blue and furry since I was born!...We are what we are Scott--wishing won't change a blessed thing. Nor will feeling sorry for yourself. I learned very early on that I must either accept what I am, or go mad. And though I am now occasionally crazy, I am not insane. If you keep tearing your guys apart every time you think the world's shafted you, my friend, you'll destroy not only yourself--but those who love you."
I think this is the reason that Morrison split Jean and Scott up. Maybe Emma can help him to get past all of that craziness. Not being with Scott will help Jean grow as well.
Jean's not perfect either. I doubt any Jean fan would make such a claim. She has a temper. She's sometimes rash. I don't see any indication that she's been particularly selfish. She could have kept Scott and Emma apart, but she didn't. When has he been that giving towards her?
She's woman that has the power to do anything she can think of. And she always thinks of the love of her life before anything else.
Last edited by Cosmic Flame on Jun 9th, 2005 at 09:46 PM
he chose to because his heart was broken... he needed comfort...
No, my point is that she'd died three times... every time its worse, though because he's dealt with it before and he has emma it is alot easier to grieve...
i didnt forget, i have the comic...
apocalypse in cyclops' body needs time to formulate any strategy...
phoenix inside jean doesnt... she just goes apeshit and kills a couple of billion people...
evil is in degrees... thats my point... jean and cable found scott before he could do what apocalypse would given the chance...
if jean turned into the phoenix in the middle of a danger room training routine all the x-men in the world can;t stop her...
run away? you do know how powerful the phoenix is right? jean is never going to control the phoenix unless the phoenix wants her to...
oh, my bad...
Maddie came along while Jean was dead... not cheating... Emma gave him the attention and affection Jean wouldnt... Psylocke? are you telling me you could resist her?
Obviously not, but she never discouraged him either did she?
but jean as we know is the phoenix, so scott would be left to pick up the pieces...
This is a Cyclops V Jean discussion, you talk about her, i talk about him
her wants arent whats neccessarily good for everyone either...
He wants her to read his mind because thats what they always did... he was never a big talker... Sure he was messed up, who wouldnt be, but why did jean let emma near him? She's his wife, Do you think he'd allow wolverine to rehabilitate her if she was in a smiliar position? I'd bet not...
He did have doubts after the apocalypse affair, why? because he'd seen the evil that exists within apocalypse, how many people wouldn't be scarred by something like that.
Yes he was with emma, and yes he was wrong to, but there's a reason for everything...
no, he didnt want her to be phoenix because its a cosmically powered incredibly destructive power... its not about his "comfort"
What, and he hasnt had his own shit to deal with? he'd just had a bomb taken out of his chest... he was told not to use his optic blasts... he was effectively crippled...
Perhaps that's the whole problem. He treats everyone like everyone is a Scott Summers. Kurt addressed this way back in Uncanny 109:
Yes, scott can be an ass and expect too much of people of times... but thats why he's the leader... its his job to get the best out of people... sure he doesnt always go the right way about it, but he doesnt do it out of spite...
Well neither of them has come very far since then... so if they're gonna help em grow now would be a good time...
Honestly though? I think scott and jean splitting up was due to a writer trying to make a name for himself...
Morrison does good work, but the scott and emma thing hasnt really progressed at all... and jean is still the phoenix...
she thinks of him, and he constantly thinks of her... hell he probably still loves her more than he ever could emma...
Gender: Male Location: somewhere looking for trouble
Paul something about Apocalypse being evil I was replying to it. he was referring to when Apocalypse got inside of Scott body..and he said Apocalypse would have did evil stuff..but he's not evil..he just is.
Gender: Female Location: somewhere skating on a frozen pond
well, i think paul and cosmic flame have equally good points. both jean and scott have their good and bad points. but i still think that emma should have left scott alone(don't kill me, just my opinion).
KMC Community Forums
Jun 9th, 2005 07:11 AM
In the end it was Jean and Cable that saved Scott and defeated Apoc, not the X-Men. And it's not the same. You're thinking of evil in terms of degrees. It doesn't really matter. You forgot that Scott and Jean were in the future and saw the world that Apocalypse created, how many people died under his hand. It's not different. Whether it's a planet in another star system or Earth thousands of years in the future, evil is evil and genocide is genocide. 
yea im confused too
lol
(just kidding I never shot anyone...probably) 
