Bruce would last a little while but Ali would win because of an extreme functional weight advantage. Ali was nearly as fast as Lee and was much more powerful. Lee's grappling abilities are never complimented on by ANYONE, so the likelyhood of this helping Lee is slim.
Mas Oyama would kill them both.....easily
Helio Gracie would kill them both......easily
All records contained on Lees work outs are on par with an average man and not that of a super human.His autopsy report revealed traces of Marujana and I think cocaine (could be wrong on the coke though).The link is,i belive,on page ten or something like that.Don't get me wrong,I like Bruce Lee.I just don't think he would defeat Ali or the majority of fighters today.Hell,Chuck Norris admitted in sparring, Rickson Gracie tapped him many times in just a few minutes.Now Rickson claims to be 500-0-0 which while some belive,their are no real impressive wins on his record(a lot belive the record isn't true) and a lot of todays fighters surpass rickson by a few miles.
Lee trained like most traditonal martial artist and the problem is the training is flawed.This is what made jujitsu so popular.most martial arts implement katats into their art which is a poor substitute for the real thing.In grappling arts you can go full force without ever realy hurting an opponent in sparring.This is not true in striking arts.Take this training and apply it to sports.Imagine if their where baseball and basketball katas.The athletes who trained in katas who do very poor compared to those who had live training.This is the major difference between Lee and Ali.Ali had plenty of "live" fights.While these live fights where limited in to only strikes it still far surpasses Lee in most of his training and sparring.
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Last edited by mr.smiley on Nov 14th, 2005 at 03:44 PM
Sparring and fighting are two different things however.Lees sparring would be very pail compared to any of Ali's actual fights.That the point i was making.
Great fighters lose in sparring all the time.You have to account the adrenlin rush involved too.While it greatly increases your strength,it takes time to use your adrenlin and think with your head.Fighters will train and spar,but that it's nowhere near the level of a real fight,regardless if it be boxing or grappling.etc.In training some forms of moves might make you tap (their are very simple ankle locks you can use in sparring to make some one tap,but try them in a proffesional mma fight and you'll get nowhere).
Here's a great link on this site.Demigawd says a lot of interesting things about Lee and Oyama both.
"Yeah, Bruce Lee was only in, I believe, three fights since founding Jeet Kune Do. One of them was the famous fight to earn the right to teach his style to Westerners. But it actually was a poor showing. It took a really long time, and Bruce was winded afterwards. Eyewitnesses say he didn't really even win the fight. And the guy he was fighting was only halfway through his training (he only learned the external portion of his art at the time). Bruce was so discouraged with his performance that he basically scrapped jun fan kickboxing, leaving behind Wing Chun almost entirely and started again. The second fight was against Gene Lebell, a famous wrestler. It wasn't a REAL, REAL fight, but Bruce tried a few trapping techniques which Gene basically shrugged off and just grabbed him and put him in about a million different holds, giving him lots of nuggies in each hold. Bruce was embarassed, then asked him to train him in judo and jiu-jitsu. I can't remember the details of the third fight, but it was basically inconclusive and it's what caused Bruce to throw out his second incarnation of JKD entirely and start from scratch AGAIN.
The problem was (and Bruce himself admitted this) mainly that Bruce had a lot of speed, but didn't have what he called "stopping power", the ability to end the fight with sheer punching force. He fought against any number of guys who just walked through his hits and he found it to be a bit frustrating, so he began to integrate "stopping techniques" into his style, which mainly consisted of setting up a straight blast, which transformed into locking technique in the grappling range which could give him the option of breaking a limb. He was really trying to beef up his grappling towards the end of his life, but he died before becoming competent in it. So JKD was largely incomplete. That's why a lot of JKD guys get owned at UFC championships.
That's also why I'd give Mas the edge. I don't think Bruce had enough power to really put him down short of dirty fighting. But don't think Mas doesn't have a bunch of dirty tricks up his sleeve.
One last thing - Mas wasn't undefeated. He lost two fights. One of them, ironically, was to a Wing Chun practitioner named William Cheung. The other was to a little known Brazilian dude named Gracie." Quoted from Demigawd
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Last edited by mr.smiley on Nov 14th, 2005 at 07:38 PM
where did he get that info from??? I would love to read where they get this info from.... Seems to me that some of the info might be made up or exagerated....
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