Wasn't Banner capable of instantaneous transformation whenever endangered? Like in the bullet-in-the-mouth scene or car hitting him or whatever?
And wouldn't a uniform made out of unstable molecules work better, anyway? With that shitty armor, all you need to do is to target the exposed areas of Banner's body (plenty of those), anyone with half a brain could do that.
I have a question regarding the latest issue of Dark Nights: Metal, The Batman Who laughs.
What artifact or doomsday weapon did Batman use to do what he did to Superman's (and his sons's) eyes? Whatever it was it weakened superman considerably and made his eyes bleed, anyone know what item/magic/artifact this was referencing from the JL trophy room?
Can someone explain the Monitors? More specifically sections.
According to Superman Beyond as best as it describes itself:
The Overvoid bottles the flaw immediately. There was one Probe sent to investigate the multiverse. It saw stories and heroes and Overvoid freaked out and the Probe split into two. Anti Monitor and Dax Novu(from what I assume). The Primal Monitor then scabbed over the flaw and Dax apparently used this scab to fashion the Thought Robot. Then sealed himself away.
According to Multiversity:
Anti Monitor and Monitor were there at the beginning, and the schism causes the Primal Monitor to bottle the flaw. Then he sends Dax Novu into the flaw where he would split into two and look at the universes.
Those are already conflicting. Then it implies Dax's corruption begins with Flash's origin which I'll assume was Wally West to put it after COIE I guess.
Anti Monitor and Monitor knock each other out 9 billion years ago, and then Monitor dies, and COIE ends.
So how does this all fit together? What is retconned and what is true? And if Monitor did die on COIE, was it stated that the Overvoid sent another?
I feel like I'm missing something, or hope I am. I think Grant's telling in Beyond was wrong since it seems to fit the least when you read it as is, or he left out large parts).
And I'd add that the Thought Robot scab occured after COIE in the Multiversity retelling (since it wasn't included).
Last edited by One Big Mob on Feb 25th, 2018 at 08:10 AM
Here is my interpretation based on the info Morrison has provided thus far. I'm certainly not saying it is irrefutable; it's just how I've pieced things together...
-Monitor-Mind(aka. Primal Monitor/Overvoid/God/The Source) senses a flaw within itself -- the DC creation.
-Monitor-Mind examines the flaw, to find that it already has the concept of 'good'(Monitor) and 'evil'(Anti-Monitor) waging war within it. That said, both the Monitor and Anti-Monitor were still creations of the Overvoid; but evidently they were subconscious creations.
-Monitor-Mind contains the flaw/conflict to prevent it from spreading further within itself(that's how the Orrery of Worlds came to be.)
-Monitor-Mind wishes to examine the flaw further, so it consciously creates the first 'Probe'(ie. science Monitor Dax Novu) and sends him in to map the flaw.
-Novu maps the multiverse, but is entirely unprepared for the concept of 'story' he finds within it. This corrupts/contaminates Novu, which eventually causes him to split in two... I believe Mandrakk was born as a result of this split -- he was essentially the 'evil' side of Novu, which had been corrupted by multiverse's narrative/story.
-Because Novu had mapped the multiverse, he knew the story of Superman was the ONLY narrative in creation that might be powerful enough to defeat Mandrakk(who, again, was the personification of all the evil narratives/stories Novu had encountered in the multiverse)... So he creates 'Thought-Robot' as the ultimate plot-device.
-Novu sacrifices his own life to keep Mandrakk contained in his Tomb until the events of FC can play-out.
I do not think that Monitor and Anti-Monitor have anything at all to do with Dax Novu. I believe that Novu was essentially divided into good and evil aspects when he was corrupted by the story: himself and Mandrakk(akin to the relationship between Adam Warlock/Magus.)
Again, this is just my personal opinion.
Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 25th, 2018 at 03:15 PM
That's what I thought too, but then I started reading both Beyond and the Multiversity one side by side and it threw me for a loop
It called Dax the first son of Monitor which I assume is the Overvoid.
I assumed Beyond had to have included AM/Monitor into the story but the only way it makes sense is to forget them. But it also calls the Probe, who would be Dax Novu, the First Monitor.
Is it fair to say the Beyond origin got retconned and only bits and pieces are applicable? Or at the least, it's quite incomplete?
Also what's your take on "Begins with a Flash" in relation to when Dax got corrupted? I assumed Wally West because it happened later (even though it doesn't make sense but you could slide it), but it seems like it just references Flashes as a whole which makes even less sense in the timeline?
Ultimately, there is either a broken link and an author will need to fix it or we try and fill it ourselves. To me, it feels like Morrison didn't care much about what was already established with the DC's mythos. I believe he just wanted to take the name.
I do wish a writer, be it Morrison or John comes along and retcons things to start making more sense,
Imo, the Multiversity Guidebook better clarified the creation-story(or at least Morrison's take on the creation-story) more than Superman Beyond. Multiversity is also the more recent telling of such, which makes it the more canon telling by default. /shrug
But yeah, I took it as:
-Monitor and Anti-Monitor already existed when Monitor-Mind first discovered the multiverse. Much like the multiverse itself, they just sort of naturally... Happened. /shrug
-After it discovered the multiverse, Monitor-Mind created the first Probe/Dax Novu, who was sent in to map it.
-Dax was corrupted by the stories within the multiverse, and split in two. We were then left with Dax Novu, and his evil counterpart: Mandrakk.
-Dax then creates Thought-Robot(to one day counter Mandrakk), sacrifices his own life to keep Mandrakk at bay until Thought-Robot is activated, and the rest is history...
*And I just took the "it starts with a flash" narrative as a segway into the very next part of the Guidebook's origin-story, which centered around Flash's discovery of the multiverse back in the golden age. After all, the map of the multiverse shows us that the Speed Force is a realm that is very much withIN the multiverse itself, and Dax Novu was created by Monitor-Mind(which is beyond/outside the multiverse), so I'm confident that Flash had nothing to do with Dax's creation or whathaveyou. /shrug
Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 27th, 2018 at 02:49 AM
I honesty think you're reading into that part a bit too much, tbh. As I mentioned: that just seems to be the next part of the 'story' Kamandi is reading, as it -literally- segways right into the retelling of Flash discovering the multiverse immediately afterward: (please log in to view the image)(please log in to view the image)
It doesn't have anything to do with the Monitors, imo.
Last edited by Galan007 on Feb 27th, 2018 at 05:49 AM
It's written right on the wall though with the rest of the Prime Monitor's story. That he was blinded, corrupted by the flaw's lightning dazzle. With the picture of the lightning, and a bolded Flash. And then they segue into Flash's origin in case they left any doubts what they were talking about.
It seems to imply the Flash's origin is his tipping point into madness. He got "blinded" (probably just figuratively, or temporary), and that led to his full on corruption. Maybe it was a Zamasu thing where he seen enough dumb shit.
Which only works in canon if he was looking at the past, or a singular Flash in time. This is what I'm having issues with.
I don't think I'm reading too far into it. I think I'm finding out shit that man was never meant to see.
Oh it is entirely possible that Flash's story was ONE OF the MANY different storieS/narrativeS responsible for corrupting Dax... I thought you were implying that Flash's story was *solely* responsible for doing so.
Not only is the Overmonitor evidently "the most powerful being in the multiverse" according to the Dark Knights, but chains he fashioned were able to keep Barbatos himself imprisoned at the bottom of the multiverse.