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Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Versus' Forum » Bruce Wayne No Weapons VS. Matt Murdock No Weapons... Hand to Hand!!!

Bruce Wayne No Weapons VS. Matt Murdock No Weapons... Hand to Hand!!!
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olympian
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And the funny is wer both saying the same things but in dfferent ways.

wink

Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 04:40 PM
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EvilCap America
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Is DD REALLY more agile than bats?Seems kind of hard to tell for sure

Anyways i say Batman hangs in there with Bat-girl and does pretty good at times Bat-girls got basically a better combat version of DDs powers and he isnt TOO far behind.He can make up the difference in a H2H fight

DD is pretty good but he doesnt strike me as better than Batman who is phenominal.Yes he isnt top 5 in DCs MAs list but thats a list DD would fall far short of too


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 05:03 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Strength matters little in a fight with two tech users, unless they are going to armwrestle, speed is better, whats the point of strength when you cant hit your opponent, this works on both sides.



I hat to tell you this Cordy but they have weight divisions cause strength matters a lot. Most real fights end up grappling quickly and in grappling strength matters big grin


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 05:04 PM
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DarkCrawler
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quote:
Batman is the world's most accomplished and skilled martial artist. Sure Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva are true masters but they master only a few styles and know a smattering of styles. However Batman is the pinnacle of true masters. He is the highest master in 127 major martial arts styles and he knows at least quadruple amount of other styles he can utilize when needed. He is an accomplished master who has made a style of fighting for himself. He observes and watches his opponents, using their styles against themselves and then switches styles to best counter their own. However, the biggest threat in Batman's martial arts skills is the fact that he can study and learn and then defeat the opponent. Only the masters like Shiva and Master Girigi's ninjas have given Batman a run for his money. He can use a style or a plethora or go full bore and use all of his skills, also this fact makes him an unconventional and unpredictable opponent, quite capable of using Karate and then switching to Aikido, from there to Jujutsu and then Capoeira and from there to Jeet Kune Do and from there Crane and Tiger style and maybe even Drunken boxing. While combating Batman, you do not face a style, you face different styles intermeshed into a fine art, a poetry of motion and discipline. From Aikido to Yaw-Yan, Batman is the most dangerous combatant on Earth. Many obscure specialties of forms and skills are in his possession. He is the master, second to Master Kirigi himself, in the art of the Whispering Hand. This punch can obliterate bodies, destroy the whole target or the real inside. Or it can be used to knock out, cause heart attacks. Only Kirigi and Batman have progressed in this art to this level. The Tiger Fist he learnt from H'Sien Tan in the Himalayas also. The Tiger is punch that can destroy anything, from wood to granite. It is reputedly the most difficult upper cut style punch ever devised. It requires the wielder to know his body, to completely and utterly be in tune with himself and the surround world in order to succeed and then there is the Leopard Punch. It is Lady Shiva's trademark and yet Batman is the one who's mastered this technique to the level that not only is he lethal, he can disarm and disable opponents with it, a level of mastery Shiva refuses to learn. Then there are other techniques the Bat uses, to disarm and disable opponents: from spinning attacks to arm locks to pins. All in all, he is a one-man army.

When a martial artist reaches a special level, he becomes enlightened. He knows the history of his art, the masters and their styles. Like them Batman has reached and went well beyond that level. Batman has the ability to mimic different masters' styles of fighting, their conduct even to the level of fooling other masters. Also he can look a combatant and judge his or her flaws and exploit them, but he can also see the style, what style it is and who has taught him or her. This has given him leads in the past and will do so in the future.

To add to the things, Cain taught Bruce to read his opponents' moves and body language. He's not as well taught as Cassandra Cain but he is almost as good as Cain in this field. Furthermore Batman's skill in the Haragei, the hyper expansion of senses, and the Kiai, the ability to feel someone's intent long before it happens, this is called Sakki. This means that Batman has the ability to control the fight in any which way and he is even able to, thanks to his training, take the combat from the physical plain to the mental level, as demonstrated in Legends of the Bat: Tao pt 2. Here Batman demonstrated his near full capabilities as he took the combat to the mental plane, his Sakki, Kiai and Haragei turning the combat into a contest of wills. No physical punches were thrown but after that exhausting battle, Batman emerged victorious. Sakki is the intent, but in many ways it can be utilized quite a lot like the Chi into projecting the mental energy into someone else.


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 05:10 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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Batman easily big grin


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 05:16 PM
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olympian
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"Is DD REALLY more agile than bats?Seems kind of hard to tell for sure"

DD is more agile than Bats in the same way Nightwing is more agile also.

"Batman is the world's most accomplished and skilled martial artist. Sure Richard Dragon and Lady Shiva are true masters but they master only a few styles and know a smattering of styles. However Batman is the pinnacle of true masters. "

He is the most eclectical master artist of DC. But hes never beaten Dragon and Shiva. And was beaten once by Tiger and had a stalemate later. Batgirl showed to be better than him also.

These guys are better than Bats for the reason theyr whole life is only focused on martial arts aspects. Bats doesnt. He had to share his focus in crimefighting. Techs. Labs. Bussiness Empire. etc.

Those have been show in comics to be better than him in pure martial arts life.

Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 05:22 PM
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DarkCrawler
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by olympian


He is the most eclectical master artist of DC. But hes never beaten Dragon and Shiva. And was beaten once by Tiger and had a stalemate later. Batgirl showed to be better than him also.

These guys are better than Bats for the reason theyr whole life is only focused on martial arts aspects. Bats doesnt. He had to share his focus in crimefighting. Techs. Labs. Bussiness Empire. etc.

Those have been show in comics to be better than him in pure martial arts life.


But he is still lot better then Daredevil.


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 05:25 PM
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Tha C-Master
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by whirlysplat
I hat to tell you this Cordy but they have weight divisions cause strength matters a lot. Most real fights end up grappling quickly and in grappling strength matters big grin


Power matters more, who would win in a fight, Bruce Lee or Tyson??


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:17 PM
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Tha C-Master
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by EvilCap America
Is DD REALLY more agile than bats?Seems kind of hard to tell for sure

Anyways i say Batman hangs in there with Bat-girl and does pretty good at times Bat-girls got basically a better combat version of DDs powers and he isnt TOO far behind.He can make up the difference in a H2H fight

DD is pretty good but he doesnt strike me as better than Batman who is phenominal.Yes he isnt top 5 in DCs MAs list but thats a list DD would fall far short of too


Batman is great, but DD definitely is more agile, he could give spiderman trouble in high gear.

This is almost a tie really.


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:18 PM
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jrodslam
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Skill wise he may be better than Matt, but like someone mentioned, Bats isnt going to cycle through all his different styles of MA during the fight. 3 the most. DD mixes up his styles on a basis. People dont realized that eventhough Bruce is "master in 127 major matial arts styles" Matt is also a master in a couple as well. Mixed with being an expert boxer as well as wrestler and technician(sp?).

For some reason i dont believe Batman is a master in 127 major martial arts. That just seems obsurd to me. You have people who train from being 10, and only master about 8 forms up to the age of 60 or so. But thats just my opinion.

Like i said before, this is a fight for the books, but because of DD's sences, he feels the slightest movement. I give him the slight advantage in speed because he already knows the punches are coming. Hes also very good with pressure points as well. Not saying that Batman isnt. I just think that DD is highly underrated in his h2h fighting.

There are many people who are better than him in h2h, but his agility along with senses and mixed fighting style makes him a match for anyone.

From what i heard they kinda got into it before. But it didint finish. Ended up in a stalemate? Can someone give the details on what happened in the fight again? What crossover as well?


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:23 PM
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demigawd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Power matters more, who would win in a fight, Bruce Lee or Tyson??



You ask that like it's a foregone conclusion. Bruce Lee flat out admitted that he wouldn't be able to beat Muhammad Ali....Prime Tyson could very well take him down. Or perhaps vice versa.


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:30 PM
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DarkCrawler
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Here is the fight from crossover:

Batman attacks Daredevil so silently that he doesn't hear nearly anything, but his radar sense registers him.

Daredevil turns around and hits Batman who is jumping on him, but Batman dodges it rather easily.

Batman tries to sweep Daredevil in the legs, but DD jumps away.

Batman throws Batarangs on DD. While he catches them, his hand are not free and Batman kicks him in the stomach, dropping him.

DD gets up and dodges another hit from Batman.

Batman hits another time and while DD is dazed, he puts him in lock, strangling him.

DD throws Batman away from him.

The fight ends shortly after this.


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:35 PM
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jrodslam
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But you have to remember. Prime Tyson isnt better than Ali.

Thats why Ali's the greatest.


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:35 PM
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demigawd
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Hence the "or vice-versa".


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:36 PM
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I-Drop
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Didn't DD beat up Cap a while back?


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:39 PM
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Tha C-Master
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by demigawd
You ask that like it's a foregone conclusion. Bruce Lee flat out admitted that he wouldn't be able to beat Muhammad Ali....Prime Tyson could very well take him down. Or perhaps vice versa.


I never said strenth itself doesn't matter, its the application of such strenth.

The stronger the muscles in a body the faster they move. So strength plays a big role, but with people so similar in most stats like this, the speed, and agility would edge those out.

You cant hit me easily brute strength will fatigue, power is much superior don't you agree?


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:42 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
I never said strenth itself doesn't matter, its the application of such strenth.

The stronger the muscles in a body the faster they move. So strength plays a big role, but with people so similar in most stats like this, the speed, and agility would edge those out.

You cant hit me easily brute strength will fatigue, power is much superior don't you agree?


depends if its in a clinch, grappling arts are more effective than striking arts. Ten years ago I would have agreed but Vale Tudo has taught us all so much big grin


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 07:57 PM
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Tha C-Master
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There's open limb, closed, grab, and lock, they counter one another, and I assure you DD isn't going to let himself get grabbed, he's got too much leverage.


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 08:13 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by CorderaMitchell
Power matters more, who would win in a fight, Bruce Lee or Tyson??


Tyson in his youth easily


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 09:05 PM
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Tha C-Master
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What about Bruce in his prime??

My point is no matter the power of the punches bruce did things considered superhuman, by physicians, he did finger push ups and such.

Even if tyson won, do you think it would have been easy, considering how fast Bruce moves?


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Old Post Jul 6th, 2005 09:07 PM
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