KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book Movies » Comic Books » Why The Onslaught Saga Should Be Discounted In Any Juggernaut Debate.

Why The Onslaught Saga Should Be Discounted In Any Juggernaut Debate.
Started by: long pig

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

Why The Onslaught Saga Should Be Discounted In Any Juggernaut Debate.

Stolen from a site because they said it better than I could.

Pt.1: Who,or what,was Onslaught?


Official Answer:Onslaught was the resultant almalgamation of Professor Charles Xavier and Magneto. In a last ditch effort to stop the deadly master of magnetism Charles Xavier completely shut down Magneto's mind. The bizarre and unforseen effects of that attack resurfaced sometime later as Magneto's influence in Professor X's mind brought forth his dark side. Along with Magneto's powers added on to his own.


Real Answer:Onslaught was the plot device around which one of the largest and most hyped crossovers was built. It struck all those involved(which was pretty much everyone) with little rhyme or reason and spanned the entire company. Because it was so bloated the parts of the crossover were often rushed which lead to countless inconsistencies by both writer and artist alike that made the stories at times undiscernable. Involvement with it was apparently forced on writers of nearly every title whether they liked it or not which lead to the most glaring and widespread mischaracterizations of everyone involved I can recall ever reading. Essentially two universes were created. The Marvel Universe we all know,and the Onslaught Universe which took it's place temporarily for the duration of the crossover. In the Onslaught Universe no one was as we've known them throughout they're history before Onslaught was thrust upon us.


As was mentioned earlier everyone involved was tampered with to fit these badly done stories but none so much as The Juggernaut. In fact,it was The Juggernaut who was used as the most significant means of giving Onslaught his very legitimacy. The defeat of Juggernaut is the crowning achievement of Onslaught which made him a "credible" power. However,this very deed is also the onesame achievement which robs him of the same credibility it earned. Because for Onslaught to accomplish most of what he did,first those he was doing it to had to be refitted specifically for Onslaught in order for it to happen. Hence the necessary distinction between the regular Marvel Universe and the Onslaught Universe.


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 08:23 PM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

UXM #322:The Juggernaut lands thunderously near Beast,Bishop and Psylocke. He's unconscious,his helmet still on. His armor has numerous holes and rips in it.


"But wait a second,isn't The Juggernaut and his armor physically indestructible,even against forces that devastated Galactus and shattered a Celestial's protective dome?"


Yes,but disregard characterization here. It'll only confuse you. Within the confines of the Onslaught world no one was themself. The very next Juggernaut appearence there are no holes so I really have no idea what to make of them. Such signs of rushing and lazy storytelling abound throughout the crossover and it's quite frankly impossible to tell what was supposed to be the real deal and what was just a deadline mistake.


Anyways,after a small diatribe between Bishop and Beast Juggernaut awakens and is in an irrational,unintelligible frenzy. Psylocke then uses her psychic knife on Juggernaut's psychic-proof helmet to try and clear his head. Psylocke picks up Juggernaut's thoughts psychically that he must get away. Keep this little exchange in your mind as you read on. Beast then grabs The Unstoppable Juggernaut and...flips him over slamming Juggernaut into the ground to calm him down. ...Yeah. Alrighty then...


Beast drills Juggernaut for info as Juggernaut lies on his back and Bishops stands at the defensive ready with power lines. Beast asks where Juggernaut thought he was and Juggernaut says it has to be Canada. Beasts asks why is that and Juggernaut says because that's where the guy hit him. Juggernaut asks Beast where they are. When Beast says they're in New Jersey Juggernaut flips out saying that was impossible. On Beast's signal Bishop hits Juggernaut with the entire city's worth of electricity from the power lines which makes Juggernaut slump back down. Beast marvels at how weak Juggernaut must be since normally he would barely feel that. Juggernaut eventually gives the name of who did this to him. Onslaught. He doesn't remember much of the fight apparently except for being punched. To add extra nonsense and shock value to the story Onslaught not only supposedly has punched Juggernaut across Canada to New York,but he sent him crashing to the exact position of the X-Men who Juggernaut apparently was going to to warn them about him. How or why this attack did The Juggernaut any physical damage,how Onslaught was able to know exactly where the X-Men would be by the time a punched body would reach a specific spot in New Jersey from Canada,or how Onslaught had such physical strength when he supposedly only had the powers of Professor X and Magneto is never explained. But don't worry since by the time the story is over so many such inexplicable occurences pop up you really just don't care anymore. This could have just been a false implanted memory of what happened since it's all Juggernaut seems to recall,but who knows.


And as if just for icing,Juggernaut in this issue is drawn like a retired offensive lineman wearing a helmet and his body armor looked more like a leotard. That was really odd considering how good the artwork was on everyone and everything else. Hmmm...


X-Men #42:The Juggernaut makes a brief cameo. I don't know why or how but apparently between his last appearence and here he must have blinked out because for some reason he's unconscious yet again and on a table being examined while the X-Men discuss other things.


"Wait a second,he's still hurt? Doesn't even when damaged The Juggernaut heal instantly because of the magic coursing through his veins?"


Look,anyone dumb enough to face Onslaught deserves the writing they get.


Wolverine #96:Juggernaut runs around in fear of Onslaught for the bulk of his appearence here,then gets teleported to the Ultraverse. Somewhere in the middle though Cannonball knocks himself stupid flying his nigh-invulnerable blast field into The Juggernaut's totally invulnerable body. Imagine that.


X-Men #53:Juggernaut pops back into this dimension into Psylocke and Archangel's home trying to reveal a secret he has. He finds however that he cannot remember what that secret is due to Onslaught's psionics so he leaves for better help. He doesn't even know what his secret is in this issue but in the next he mysteriously now knows it's Onslaught's identity that he has. Yet another example of how thrown together all this stuff was.


Also,Archangel was wary to trust Juggernaut in the first place but was assured by Psylocke that Juggernaut was in fact speaking the truth. How she knew is very interesting in a Who-the-Hell-is-writing-this??? sort of way.


Uncanny X-Men #334:Juggernaut returns to Westchester. He wonders why he's so afraid of Onslaught. He can't figure out what it is about him that has him so frightened. He seeks aid from Jean Grey to help get past whatever Onslaught did to his head. Jean Grey puts on her uniform and leads Juggernaut to a psi-shielded chamber.


X-Men 54:Jean Grey is now in streetclothes again and no-prizes are offered in-comic for those who noticed. Obviously with Onslaught there was such a bulk of them they had to start giving them away to clear space. More can be found later.


After a little chatter and a deep probe Jean finds a psychic block and with Juggernaut's help finds out who Onslaught is. She also notices that Juggernaut didn't close the chamber door all the way meaning they weren't shielded psionically. Why is this bad? Because coincidentally,Onslaught is a psion. And if you like that coincidence you might also like that Juggernaut just this once decided to get careless and left his helmet lying around somewhere. Knowing now that Onslaught is Xavier Jean tells Juggernaut to run since they were in Xavier's house revealing he was Onslaught and Xavier most likely knew about it because of coincidence numero uno.


Juggernaut tries to run but Onslaught is psychically warping his perception of the mansion into an indiscernable maze. Juggernaut then bursts through the door of Xavier's study looking for safety. To his surprise instead of his hated step-brother he finds Onslaught. Who apparently not only is an incredibly strong little plot device but a gigantic one as well and picks Juggernaut up and holds him between his fingers as though he were a plaything. Cain apparently at that instant forgets just exactly what being The Juggernaut means and begs for Onslaught not to kill him. Onslaught offers a reminder though saying that killing Juggernaut is impossible since the magics bonded to him make him totally indestructible. It can never be said Onslaught wasn't up to speed.


Luckily though Onslaught used his mutant power of instantaneous implausibility and made that story-haulting little fact about The Juggernaut vanish without a trace. He then,casually,with his fingertips,digs through Juggernaut's indestructible armor and physically unbreakable skin and pulls out the Gem of Cyttorak. Rendering Juggernaut powerless.


"Now wait a %&*@in' second here. When the hell was the Gem of Cyttorak ever in Juggernaut's chest?!!?"


The second Onslaught needed it to be there. As you may not have noticed by now that's how things in the Onslaught Universe tended to work. If to churn out the story he wants you to all of a sudden have a ruby the size of a cantalope embedded between your lungs,you will all of a sudden have a ruby the size of a cantalope embedded between your lungs. Yes,I know that's rediculous.


The Onslaught Universe motto:"Hey,whatever works."


Onslaught:X-Men:Onslaught gets prepared to deal with the X-Men and leaves the gem lying on his desk. On a closer look we see that Juggernaut is somehow trapped inside of it banging to get out.


"Wait a second,now how did Onslaught..."


With his Onslaught powers,silly.


X-Men Unlimited #12:Juggernaut finds himself inside the Crimson Cosmos wondering where he is. Odd considering this is his third time being there,but leave it alone. He's also just had a stone that wasn't really there in the first place ripped out of his chest but doesn't seem to have any sign of it save for a hole in his armor. Doesn't make alot of sense to me but I'm used to it by this time in the story. He then meets a wizard who in the Onslaughtverse is one of two who supposedly trapped Cyttorak there long ago. Which was funny since as far as I know until we entered the world of Onslaught Cyttorak has never been trapped anywhere much less inside the gem as he in fact is the Crimson Cosmos in and of itself and the story has always been that Cyttorak when driven away from Earth left the gem there himself as a curse. But,whatever works. I've always felt that when writing an origin issue,actually knowing the origin of the character you're writing it about is not that big a necessity. And I for one was glad to see the Onslaught creative team echoes that sentiment.

Long story short,Juggernaut meets a demoness who leads Juggernaut to Cyttorak. Who,believe it or not,is the guy above to the left.




If you feel something is amiss and can't quite put your finger on just exactly what it is,it might be that Cyttorak actually looks like these the pictures here. But when you're blatantly making a story up as you go along why not say "Screw it!" and do it up all the way? So Juggernaut is lead to this Onslaught Cyttorak. His new look goes totally unappreciated by The Juggernaut however since apparently as far as the Onslaught Universe is concerned this is Juggernaut's first time meeting him(???). No I am not making this up.


Look for yourself.





"But wait a second,didn't Juggernaut already meet Cyttorak up close and personal right here in Dr.Strange #44?"


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 08:24 PM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

"But wait a second,didn't Juggernaut already meet Cyttorak up close and personal right here in Dr.Strange #44?"


Welcome to the world of Onslaught kids. All your continuity are belong to him.


If you're not the biggest fan of the Onslaught Cyttorak then fear not. With the help of the two wizards who supposedly trapped that Onslaught Cyttorak there in the first place Juggernaut gets his powers back and engages him in battle. Destroying him actually. How does one beat their benefactor? Easy. You just ram into him. That's all you have to do. Yes,Juggernaut ran into Cyttorak,and Cyttorak blew up. No I am not making this up either. That's really how he killed him.


If you were still expecting a quality story by this point then you deserve any disappointment you recieve.


X-Men Unlimited #13:Juggernaut visits one of his childhood memory locales and is soon provoked into wrecking the town. Gomuur,one of the two wizards who helped trap the Onslaught version of Cyttorak shows up and points out that his destructive tendencies are bold blaring signs that the power of The Juggernaut controls Cain Marko and not vice versa. Cain says he'll be his own man and walks off.

Mercifully this is the last of Juggernaut's involvement in the mindnumbingly flawed Onslaught crossover. And ironically the story was not half bad. A sign of recovery from the madness? Let's see...


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 08:24 PM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

They say before things get better they inevitably get much worse. I've always hated that philosophy but this case does little to prove it wrong. Onslaught finally ended. Destroyed by the greater part of the Marvel superhero community. In the final confrontation,the enigmatic entity is battled by nearly every known hero in the Marvel Universe and was finally defeated by them all absorbing him into themselves. All but the mutants since by being created of a mutant...mutants jumping inside of him would only make him stronger. H'OK. So the X-Men stay behind and finally combine their powers to destroy Onslaught and his mass of non-X heroes. As with it's creation it's ending is just as contrived. Of course,they found a way for Scarlet Witch and Namor helped absorb him too,so.... Vision,who is a robot,also helped soak up Onslaught meaning any object aside from LIVING PEOPLE would've gotten the job done. Yet the only solution Reed Richards,the smartest man on Earth,could come up with was to throw any hero not in a popular X-title(be they mutant or not) in to "die" absorbing the thing. But such inconsistency to achieve obvious goals no matter how badly done or utterly implausible was the Onslaught trademark and fittingly it ended as it began. With yet more glaring inaccuracies born of bad writing and rushed stories. Speaking of which,if you recognized that the faux pas in the Onslaught bonus was Psylocke reading Juggernaut's thoughts with his helmet on,give yourself 15 points.


Unfortunately,all did not become immediately well again with the passing of the plot device that plaqued Marvel for far too long. Aside from how badly Marvel as a whole was wrecked in general by this crossover,The Juggernaut's image had been decimated. As the tool used to make Onslaught what it was the hyping came at the expense of all the respect Juggernaut had earned before it. No more was he regarded as the force that could not be reckoned with who headlined the covers of anything he was in. Juggernaut fell from his lofty position on the totem pole and was now used only as a jester. With the Onslaught Universe no more his powers returned to being written correctly again for the most part,though almost without exception Juggernaut was nothing more than a joke in each of his earlier subsequent post-Onslaught appearences. How can someone nigh-invincible be a joke you may ask. Simple. All it takes is a little effort.


The Incredible Hulk #457:Juggernaut appearing again in the pages of Hulk? A classic match-up revisited? No. Instead of the two heaviest hitters going toe-to-toe in an what should have been one for the ages,we instead are treated to watch The Juggernaut pitted against a Celestial horseman of Apocalypse. Granted,the days of Onslaught are done so this is actually Juggernaut proper thank God. But Juggernaut is no match for Celestial power even on his best day. With Celestial empowering and armaments what was Hulk had now been transformed into War and humbled the Juggernaut. Although being one-sidedly bounced across Africa by War doesn't didn't do The Juggernaut any harm it's the principle of the thing. The Celestial energy coursing about War seemingly on command even stopped Juggernaut's forward progress cold. To set up this humbling turn of events Juggernaut decides to gratuitously force War back across the desert a couple hundred yards for no particular reason. No fighting,no hitting. He just pushes him back. I guess to show off. This goes on for about a page. Then the energy kicked in and he is suddenly halted. And understandably dumbfounded by this.


Now there's nothing wrong with Celestial energy being capable of this as it's nature is unknown,but again,it's the principle. Though from a physical standpoint Juggernaut took everything without a scratch he was totally outclassed and embarassed by War on all counts. Even his calling card unstoppability was not sacred. Then right after the fight Hulk tore away the Celestial armaments and jumped away. Hulk was hyperaugmented solely for this one fight and back to normal immediately after it was over. Which means it being done in the first place served almost no other purpose than to remind Juggernaut that he is in fact a redheaded stepchild.

X-Men #70:The new look X-Men taking on what used to be the their greatest foe? Of course not. Juggernaut isn't good enough for such things anymore. He comes to the X-Mansion and is snubbed and at times ignored as if he were a minor nuisance below their concern. When he finally does get their attention they all take turns disrespecting him as though he were a third rate loser. Magneto clone "Joseph" threatens threatens to kill him. Not the most plausible threat to someone like Juggernaut but it's left to linger unresponded to as though it were while Beast insults him so condescendingly you almost want to cry. Juggernaut doesn't respond to either since he's too busy looking frightened by the exclamation that there's a bomb in the mansion(...the Hell?). Then fourth rate loser Maggot threatens to have his slugs chomp into Juggernaut but Juggernaut only laughs and walks away since he finds Maggot as the best and brightest of the new X-Men pretty funny. Can't say I don't echo that.


Uncanny X-Men #361:In this one Juggernaut's formidability is worked around yet again by having his powers stolen once more. Only this time it's in post-Onslaught fashion so naturally it's much less dignified. Juggernaut is for some reason this time dying from it unlike the other times this has happened and is staggering around with his body getting smaller and feebler and his armor drooping over him making him look like a total clown. One would think he'd just take the armor off and oh,I dunno,put on something that fit. But I guess he wouldn't look as stupid then which seemed to be the whole point.


He starts fighting with the X-Men for a little bit before Gambit makes his return(which is what the issue was really about;Juggy was just comic relief I guess) and joins in. Gambit readies a card but Juggernaut weazes,passes out and falls down like a drunk before Gambit even has to throw it. Gambit then retrieves the gem into which Juggernaut's power was siphoned and housed and returns it to him.


Nothing's a bigger boost for your ego and self-image than to have people you used to beat up regularly to save your life out of pity.


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 08:26 PM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

Uncanny X-Men #369:Painful. In this one we find out when Juggernaut's power was returned it was tainted with an evil outside influence. This influence takes over Juggernaut's mind and uses his immense power to tear his way through space-time into it's dimension. Black Tom enlists the X-Men to help free Cain from the control he was under. The team is thinned until only Professor X and Wolverine make it to Cain via his mind. In there they find that an entity is controlling Juggernaut by keeping him subdued with his worse fears. Cain is so frightened he's curled up under a stairway crying. After a pep talk from his step-brother and Wolverine while he pridelessly sniffled before the both of them Cain pulls it together and retakes control of his mind. I don't know what's worse,rewriting his powers so he can be beaten by a plot device,or reducing him into a cringing heap.


I pray Juggernaut never appears in anything with an "X" in the title again for as long as I live. Just look at what's happened to him there the past 6 or 7 outings. So if getting saved by the X-Men just 8 months ago wasn't bad enough,now Juggernaut cries like a girl in front of toughguy Wolverine and the man he hates more than anyone else on the planet while they save him too. First War takes tarnishes Juggernaut's trademark unstoppability,then Professor X saving him clouds another of the foundamental aspects of Juggernaut since his creation:the burning desire to see his hated stepbrother destroyed. And he's left CRYING in front of him. It's not that Cain being crippled with fear isn't understandable here,mind you. Wolverine,Hulk,Batman,etc. have all reacted similar to being bombarded by their worse fears and been left crying like scared babies because of it. That's why they're called "worse fears". It's just the fact that everytime Juggernaut appears in an X-book post-Onslaught the plot always revolves around him being impotent,debilitated,or overall pathetic.


Reduced to sniffling helplessly in front of Xavier is as low as you can get.

====

As the saying goes,things can only get better when you hit rock bottom. And that's where Juggernaut certainly now was. Powerwise he's still unstoppable but he'd been written against so many demeaning plots lately it didn't matter. But it appears the after effects of Onslaught may be finally starting to disappear.


Eighth Day:A tidy if not very interesting little crossover in which Cain discovers he was destined all along to become The Juggernaut as part of a wager between mystic deities. Cyttorak's avatar,the Juggernaut,was to war with 7 other people(known as the Exemplars) empowered by other deities in an every-man-for-himself battle royale to prove which deity was supreme. The Juggernaut shows some gumption not seen since pre-Onslaught times and bucks the subservience to his benefactor,then proceeds to mow through every Exemplar in his way rather swiftly. The part that makes no sense to me about this whole storyline is that there is no way any single Exemplar could defeat the Juggernaut in combat since aside from being the Exemplar of Physical Strength he's also immune to physical force and they all had physical powers except for one. So the only way the Juggernaut could be taken out is if the Exemplars ganged up on him first so the psychic Exemplar could eliminate him. But here's the kicker:if they do that,then it's not every man for himself then which defeats the entire point of the whole wager. Whoops. I don't think anyone involved really thought the whole "Nothing can stop the Juggernaut" thing through first when coming up with this so the Juggernaut just ends up kicking all their asses.


Which lead to...

(please log in to view the image)


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 08:27 PM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

Avengers #24 & 25


For the first time in seemingly forever the power of Juggernaut is put prominantly up on display instead of drained away or worked around. He withstands a combined assault from the Exemplars of the Octessence. In the end he is finally subdued by the only force capable of doing sostick out tonguesionic attack. And it's even taken care of to reinforce that he would be immune to even that if he were still wearing his helmet. I would have much rather Juggernaut battled the Avengers instead of yet again running from someone to get help but in this case with there being 7 of them all trying to kill him for betrayal it's understandable. But it was a long time coming to see Juggernaut do his thing again even if only for the briefest of moments before falling to a psion. Beggars can't be choosers. It's sad when the standard has dropped to the point where formerly common feats are now exceptional occurences.


After the Avengers and Spider-Man combined prove unable to defeat the Exemplars,Captain America manages to get them to see how they're being manipulated and they leave. Now left alone with the assembled Avengers,Spider-Man,and the NYPD special forces,Juggernaut out of gratitude for the help says he'll go quietly with the police. Saying since even all of the heroes and police together probably couldn't take him as powerful as they may be. That line was beautiful.


Just as being sacrificed to Onslaught lead to belittling stories as a result,an accurate portrayal such as this should in theory lead to back to the original treat a Juggernaut appearence used to be.


Generation X #61: The Juggernaut just flat out stomps Gen-X. He takes everything thrown at him easily and his strength is far too much for them to handle. He is only stopped later with a total team effort culminating in a psi-blast. Classic Juggernaut that's been sorely missed. This is tainted however by the fact that it forced me to have to read an issue of Gen-X.


Though it actually comes out before X-Men Forever in real time,this story takes place AFTER it continuitywise so The Juggernaut has already pulled the curtain on the Forever appearence by this issue.


X-Men Forever:Talk about being out of place. Juggernaut is in this solely to set up the J2 storyline. He has no other visible purpose in the story and he's so unrelated to it that it hurts. His parts are meaningless,insulting and he's painted as a total loser to lead up to a dumb ending revelation. A bad idea since Juggernaut of our time/reality/timeline is on no such path as J2's father so one had to be created hurriedly within the series. The lack of any in-continuity lead up to make the story even somewhat fluid sticks out like a sore thumb and causes all kinds of wierd and unnatural character portrayals. 4 mutants from Earth(Jean Grey,Mystique,Toad,and Iceman) each representing something different about mutant progression are chosen by the Celestial ship named Prosh to go on a mission through time to help save the universe. Juggernaut was for some reason thrown in to represent humans' jealousy of mutants despite having power putting any mutant's to shame. Um,sure. He then does nothing but get transported exclusively to various low points and defeats throughout his past for nearly the whole series,mysteriously skipping over any and all of his triumpths or good times as though they don't exist. After this painfully heavyhanded and selective portrayal of his life being nothing but mistakes he decides to become a good guy and signs up to work for the government with a "Ms. Yama". Yama being the woman whom Juggernaut would father J2 with in the J2 timeline,after he becomes a good somewhere in said future. Real smooth transition that one. Attempting to alter mainstream characters to fit relatively distant and unlikely futures alone is bad enough in and of itself,but on top of that the potrayal was so forced it was like getting hit with a J2 brand sledgehammer. Fortunately with the J2 timeline forgotten Juggernaut's sorry behavior throughout this series was retconned away faster than you could say "Man that story sucked.". We would soon learn Cain's strange actions here were all a grand scheme by Cain to get inside the government system to expand and further his criminal purposes. Crafty SOB he is at times.


Another pathetic X appearence but on the bright side my hunch that the Avengers and Gen X appearences were signs that life for Juggernaut were finally returning to normal get reinforced by the end of this series with Juggernaut toppling the 50-foot Stranger with one punch.

(please log in to view the image)


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 08:28 PM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

Cyclops #1-2:For the love of God. My dread of Juggernaut appearing in another X-book proves still well warranted. In this little tale The Juggernaut teams up with Black Tom and they are sent to Alaska to kill Cyclops. It's all down hill from there. In classic post-Onslaught fashion The Juggernaut being arguably the single most invincible person on the face of the planet man-to-man did very little to help him against this eery X-writer insistence that he act like a cupcake despite his immense power. During the fight Cyclops blasts Juggernaut to no effect,then switches strategies and blasts a truck. The explosion hurts Black Tom. Juggernaut then picks up Tom's body and I'll be a son of a ***** if Juggernaut isn't crying. Black Tom's not dead or even hurt all that bad and comes to. Juggernaut's just holding him with tears streaming down his cheeks.


Anyway,Juggernaut then chases Cyclops only for Cyclops to blast the shallow ice under him and Juggernaut falls into the water. Cyclops then grabs Tom for negotiative leverage against Juggernaut whom he knew wouldn't be gone long from a dunk in icewater. Juggernaut re-enters the scene holding a a woman as a hostage of his own. Cyclops bluffs Juggernaut into dropping the woman by saying if Juggernaut didn't Tom would get his head blasted off. He then tells Juggernaut he'll let Tom go if he tells him who hired them to kill him. Juggernaut agrees and says it was a guy named Ulysses for 2 million dollars. Cyclops asks if it was only for the cash then why didn't Juggernaut just beat the money out of Ulysses. Juggernaut then says it was because Ulysses...scared him. *sigh* Cyclops suggests they just lie to Ulysses and say they succeeded in killing him. Juggernaut practically sucking his thumb asks what if Ulysses didn't believe them. To which Cyclops responds:"You're an indestructible killing machine. You figure it out.". Obviously I'm not the only one who sees the stupidity of a yellow streak when nothing can hurt you. Go fig.


I waited before summarizing this appearence since I wanted to hold out my disgust until the last issue to see if this was as bad as it appeared. I didn't know if Juggernaut's fear was warranted or not since Ulysses was an unknown. Ulysses appears later on in the series and we see he is only a whacked out Green Beret who can turn invisible and has enhanced strength and speed on the call of 10 times a normal man. Yep. For some reason post-Onslaught Juggernaut fears this. A painful,and most importantly,inexplicable personality shift for a man who can trade punches with the Hulk without a care and has fearlessly challenged the likes of Cyttorak and Eternity to a fight. The only positive about this story was that Juggernaut reveals that the offbeat appearence in X-Men Forever was actually all a plan to get government connections for his future criminal business ventures.


Alrighty then,I've had about enough. If this is supposed to be the fate of The Juggernaut then it's time to move on. I was hoping it was just an aftermath that would get better with time but this type of depiction apparently has become the standard of how Juggernaut will be done from now on. I can stomach no more. I may like alot of characters and have a virtual collection of title runs,but one or two more Juggernaut appearences like this and I'm washing my hands of Marvel comics. I've come to expect better than this. Marvel's been bad for awhile and The Juggernaut was really the only thing keeping with them.


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 08:32 PM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

Uncanny X-Men #410:The X-Men are sent by Xavier to Scotland to answer a distress signal. Suddenly their plane is attacked and they are forced into a crash landing. While Nightcrawler and Stacy X sift through the fallen members The Juggernaut appears in an apparent ambush.


(Perhaps I was a little too harsh in my judgement of Juggernaut's less than manly,teary-eyed reaction to being bombarded with his worst fears in Uncanny X-Men #369. Since The Juggernaut making another appearence in an X-book is mine I too found myself curled up into a ball under the steps crying once I saw one was coming.)


Uncanny X-Men #411 & 412:"Juggernaut's going to kill us all!". Famous last words. This line told me all I needed to know. Once I saw the issue start off like that I knew exactly what course this issue was going to take. Iceman freezes The Juggernaut,The Juggernaut breaks out. He then reaches for the wooden spike impaling the downed Wolverine from the crash and yanks it out. Iceman then blasts The Juggernaut with a frozen beam to knock him away from Logan and through a wall. Vines burst up from the ground and snatch Angel down and The Juggernaut re-emerges. Iceman puts up a giant ice barrier for cover so the X-Man can escape,but The Juggernaut shatters it with one blow. Nightcrawler says the X-Men never leave another behind and stand with him. He fires a steady stream of his ice power at The Juggernaut and keeps pouring it on. The Juggernaut just steady smashes through it until he's right up on Iceman and visibly annoyed. He asks if this is how they treat people who call them for help(Wow,didn't see that one coming. *laced as heavily with sarcasm as humanly possible* Asking for help. Again.).


The X-Men are shocked and ask if Juggernaut sent a distress call and Juggernaut condascendingly points out that he's the only one there. Iceman asks why he was attacking Wolverine if he wanted help. Juggernaut points out the obviousness of pulling a stake from someone's chest as a sign of assistance,not attack. Juggernaut tells them to get their bearrings because "he" was going to get stronger now that "he" had Angel and Monet. Iceman asks who "he" is but before he can get an answer more vines burst from the ground and snatch down Juggernaut,Wolverine,and Stacy. Iceman and Nightcrawler dodge the attempt to pull them under. Underneath the X-Men are entangled in a jungle of vines and Juggernaut says it's Black Tom,that he'd mutated further(...again). He pleads with Tom to stop but a monstrously plantlike and mentally unstable Tom refuses,saying that Juggernaut's power was now only a shadow of what it once was and he was now useless to him. Tom is furious that Cain has shamed him by bringing the X-Men,his worst enemies apparently,to save him. Odd considering both of their last two X-appearences were about nothing other than Tom bringing the X-Men to help Cain. But anywho,Cain defends his actions saying that the change was killing Tom. Tom says it's Juggernaut who the change is killing and latches more siphoning vines onto Juggernaut's face. Wolverine cuts the vines off of Cain and slashes Tom's face. Tom says his eyes will grow back but their body parts probably weren't as replenishable and they'd be wise to stop fighting before they found out.


Wolverine asks what's going on with Tom and Cain says he's "taking root or something". He says Tom was the only friend he had and he'd do anything to save him,even calling that "useless piece of $#%`" Xavier for help. Offended by the insult Wolverine defends Xavier and once again makes it seem like Juggernaut is a petty and ungrateful person for hating Professor X so. (This is a common misconception that has always irked me. While The Juggernaut is by no means the salt of the Earth he actually does have every reason to hate Charles Xavier. Despite it often being made to seem otherwise,Xavier has legitimately earned his stepbrother's hostile sentiment. I'd hate him too if he used his power to cheat in every aspect of his life to falsely make everyone think he was better than me and then robbed me of any secrets or personal thoughts of my own by reading my mind.) Meanwhile Iceman and Nightcrawler follow the water in the vines via Iceman's power to locate their source,Black Tom. Black Tom collapses a wall around them but apparently misses. End #411.


#412 opens with the captured party dangled from vines and The Juggernaut visibly drained of power(surprise surprise) with his armor now sagging around his withering frame. Again. Tom punches a vine through Iceman's chest but Nightcrawler teleports to avoid the same fate and punches Tom in the face. Nightcrawler notices that when he hits Black Tom the captured ones feel it too. Nightcrawler then teleports Stacy free so she can use her pheromone powers on Tom. She does and while she has Tom chemically infatuated beyond reason she tells him they can be together and to just let everyone go. Tom stops draining them and Iceman seizes the opporunity to freeze all the water in the vines. Black Tom fights it which causes all those trapped to scream,but with Stacy seducing him not to fight Tom faulters and the frozen vines snap off. Once Stacy is pulled away Tom begins attacking the X-Men,destroying the whole island. Juggernaut screams for Tom to stop because the X-men just came to help him. An X-plane flies by and Juggernaut grabs Wolverine and tosses him all the way up to it. A now more coherent and intelligible Black Tom rises up and confronts Juggernaut. He says he gave Cain everything and he turned on him. I don't know what Tom means by he gave Cain everything since Cain has always been the main contributor in their partnership,but what the Hell. They're just making it up at this point. He says Cain's father was right and that Cain was just born hopeless(*sigh*). Tom destroys the cliffhead Cain is standing on and Cain plummets into the ocean. Wolverine says Juggernaut's lost his power and that he even saw him bleed and that he was sure he was probably capable of drowning now too(*sigh*,again). Xavier asks who has the strength left to dive in such turbulent water after him. Before anyone can answer the fish boy from #411 dives out of the plane into the ocean after Juggernaut. Once he finds The Juggernaut Cain has apparently given up completely and is willingly sinking to his death and not even trying to save himself(*sigh*). The fish boy tells him not to give up,that a guy named Xavier was in the plane up there and he has a school. He says even though Cain may be too old for school Xavier just wants to help people so he should come anyway. This apparently gives Cain a reason to live and he reaches out and takes the kid's hand. It was hard to read on from here since by this point I was choking on my own bile,but I somehow managed through sheer force of will. Something they seem to have taken great measures to make sure The Juggernaut no longer has. Insert fourth sigh here.


Juggernaut is now in the plane and Xavier thanks him for saving the X-Men. Cain says it was the least he could do since he was who got them in trouble in the first place. Xavier says Cain will need time to recover and that he's welcome to stay at the school for as long as it took. Cain is getting ready to refuse when he looks at the X-Men and for whatever reason that makes him change his mind. He says that Xavier shouldn't take that to mean that they were now square and that he didn't hate him anymore. Xavier says Cain should know he has eternal hope. Cain sits down in one of the plane's leather seats which makes a sound. The fish boy pokes fun at Cain,they all live happily ever after,and I went off to find the bullets for my gun.


And that was the straw that broke the camel's back plus five or six more for good measure. Time to call it a hobby. The sight of him neutered to the point where he tries to kill himself for no reason other than another fight with Tom is way too much. To make matters worse,the squabble with Tom that he's trying to kill himself over makes no sense with the history of the characters. And then for Cain to stand in front of the hated Charles Xavier and not so much as give him a pluck in that bald head of his? This kinder,gentler,weaker punk is not for me. Especially after seeing him chumped by Wolverine the very next issue after this one. It's quite literally like another person stepped in and is masquerading as Cain Marko. I don't even know how he will be able to continue calling himself "The Juggernaut" anymore with such a mysteriously diminished level of power. Hard to support your rep as unstoppable while you're bleeding out of your mouth.


But that's for someone else to deal with I suppose.


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 08:32 PM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
willRules
4 8 15 16 23 42

Gender: Male
Location: LOST

You feel really strongly bout this dont you?


__________________

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 08:39 PM
willRules is currently offline Click here to Send willRules a Private Message Find more posts by willRules Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

Yup.

I didn't write any of it though, I don't care about anything enough to write that much shit.


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 09:03 PM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
willRules
4 8 15 16 23 42

Gender: Male
Location: LOST

lol


__________________

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 09:28 PM
willRules is currently offline Click here to Send willRules a Private Message Find more posts by willRules Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Draco69
Snarky Slytherin

Gender: Male
Location: United States

I personally think the ENTIRE Onslaught Saga should be mindwiped from the mind of comic readers due to its horrible inconsistency and complete disdain for continutity.


__________________

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 09:36 PM
Draco69 is currently offline Click here to Send Draco69 a Private Message Find more posts by Draco69 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Starscream M
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Cybertron

wow whoever wrote this did an excellent job


__________________


Defacto Leader of the KMC VS Resistance Movement

Old Post Aug 31st, 2005 10:22 PM
Starscream M is currently offline Click here to Send Starscream M a Private Message Find more posts by Starscream M Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
#16
BALLER STATUS IV LIFE

Gender: Male
Location: The 139.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Draco69
I personally think the ENTIRE Onslaught Saga should be mindwiped from the mind of comic readers due to its horrible inconsistency and complete disdain for continutity.


^cosigns.

or at least get HOM to fix this.


__________________

DarkCrawler >>> Your Favorite Sig-Maker

Old Post Sep 1st, 2005 12:49 AM
#16 is currently offline Click here to Send #16 a Private Message Find more posts by #16 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Colossus21
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

dam this shit is 1000 worser then one of GS's essays.......

Old Post Sep 1st, 2005 01:18 AM
Colossus21 is currently offline Find more posts by Colossus21 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Scoobless
sselboocS

Gender: Male
Location: The Scoob Cave

i read the start of it.... then realised it went on forever and skiped the rest..... there were a truckload of stupid events in the Onslaught story.... like Storm "killing" the Hulk with a lightning bolt, and Nate Grey not even putting up a fight against Onslaught...pffft

although i must say i enjoyed it overall


stick out tongue



p.s.......... how exactly did Xavier get access to Magneto's powers? i can understand the mind part.... but wouldn't he need Mag's body to have his powers?


__________________


Do you even KMC???

Old Post Sep 1st, 2005 02:04 AM
Scoobless is currently offline Click here to Send Scoobless a Private Message Find more posts by Scoobless Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Starscream M
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Cybertron

the worst thing I think about Onslaught is the way he was beaten...that was ridiculously stupid


__________________


Defacto Leader of the KMC VS Resistance Movement

Old Post Sep 1st, 2005 02:34 AM
Starscream M is currently offline Click here to Send Starscream M a Private Message Find more posts by Starscream M Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Colossus21
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by masterbruce
the worst thing I think about Onslaught is the way he was beaten...that was ridiculously stupid


yeah i know.i mean like gettin beaten by jubilee.that shit was totally ****ed up

Old Post Sep 1st, 2005 03:02 AM
Colossus21 is currently offline Find more posts by Colossus21 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
olympian
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Onslaught saga in respect to Juggernaut was indeed bad writting. At least in some obvious aspects.

Like the fragging gem on his chest. Since when he had that? Total invention.

Long you have that issue of the exemplars going against the Avengers?

Old Post Sep 1st, 2005 08:29 AM
olympian is currently offline Click here to Send olympian a Private Message Find more posts by olympian Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
long pig
Restricted

Gender: Male
Location:

Account Restricted

I'm pretty sure I do, I didn't read it though.


__________________

Supa-Mayne!

Old Post Sep 1st, 2005 09:08 AM
long pig is currently offline Click here to Send long pig a Private Message Find more posts by long pig Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 11:41 AM.
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book Movies » Comic Books » Why The Onslaught Saga Should Be Discounted In Any Juggernaut Debate.

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.