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Why didn't Gandalf use his powers?
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Flying High
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isnt the easy answer....that if Gandalf did use his powers...lets face it...the book and the film wouldnt be good...


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Old Post Sep 9th, 2005 10:10 PM
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Batman Returns
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forgot where i read this, (surprised it hasnt yet been mentioned), but i believe i have read that the wizards, like gandalf, werent allowed to use there magic soley on Sauron to defeat him because they felt that using the same methods that Sauron used to destroy him would lead to corruption, and using the Enemy's technique would corrupt them as well, ie thats why gandalf cant use the ring, or use his own magic to openly destroy Sauron, so he must only try to help the Men of Middle Earth to defeat Sauron, not use magic.

Old Post Sep 9th, 2005 10:38 PM
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ESB -1138
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I can see why you would say that about the first part of the battle during the night raid. But really, would Gandalf really make a difference in the outcome of Minas Tirith? My answer is no. Before Rohan arrived he was at the mercy of the Witch-King after he destroyed his staff which a wizard uses to use magic.
The first part what did he really do in the fight? He was a great General that led his forces to victory but could he really have made thousands of Orcs drop their weapons? Gandalf most likely assist the Soldiers of Gondor the best he could.


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Old Post Sep 9th, 2005 11:05 PM
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Batman Returns
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ESB-1138
I can see why you would say that about the first part of the battle during the night raid. But really, would Gandalf really make a difference in the outcome of Minas Tirith? My answer is no. Before Rohan arrived he was at the mercy of the Witch-King after he destroyed his staff which a wizard uses to use magic.
The first part what did he really do in the fight? He was a great General that led his forces to victory but could he really have made thousands of Orcs drop their weapons? Gandalf most likely assist the Soldiers of Gondor the best he could.


i agree. in the book, however, gandalf's staff does NOT break at all. PJ just threw that in i guess to make the situation look somewhat hopeless, until of course the Rohirrim arrive. the scene is not that much different from the book with the exception of gandalf's staff breaking. to me, the staff breaking, along with sarumans "fire ball", were both just ways to make the scene more exciteing and have that shock effect, like, WTH?

srry to get off topic, but it just came to my mind. i doubt that gandalf could or would defeat Sauron by himself useing even ALOT of magic. but he was a good general and lead them very well. love it when he knocks denethor with his staff, lol.

Old Post Sep 9th, 2005 11:53 PM
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ESB -1138
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One of the best parts of the movies/books. I doubt Gandalf could defeat the Witch-King


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Old Post Sep 10th, 2005 12:24 AM
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Batman Returns
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by ESB-1138
One of the best parts of the movies/books. I doubt Gandalf could defeat the Witch-King


yeah me too, i just dont think he would be a match for the wichking. gandalf doesnt have his staff anymore, so, hes screwed. stick out tongue

Old Post Sep 10th, 2005 01:32 AM
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ESB -1138
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The greatest moments in the movies.
-The Two Towers-
Gimli: What's going on?
Legolas: Shall I desrcibe it to you...or would you rather have me get you a box.

Aragon: It's a long way down.
Gimli: Toss me. I cannot jump a distance you have to toss me...oh...don't tell the elf.
Aragon: Not a word.

-Return of the King-
Gimli: That still only counts as one!!


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Old Post Sep 10th, 2005 02:13 AM
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Ushgarak
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Batman Returns
forgot where i read this, (surprised it hasnt yet been mentioned), but i believe i have read that the wizards, like gandalf, werent allowed to use there magic soley on Sauron to defeat him because they felt that using the same methods that Sauron used to destroy him would lead to corruption, and using the Enemy's technique would corrupt them as well, ie thats why gandalf cant use the ring, or use his own magic to openly destroy Sauron, so he must only try to help the Men of Middle Earth to defeat Sauron, not use magic.


No, that's not true, only as pertains to Ring Use. After all, Glorfindel was not afraid to use what we would call magic (but certainly not Elves!) to total Nazguls. Gandalf's power is no more 'evil' than that.

In fact, Tolkien is very clear that the power of the Elves and the Istari is conceptually different from the power used by the forces of evil.

So no, it would not corrupt them. Like I say, people make far too much of this 'forbvidden' nonsense; Gandalf was not holding back!


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Old Post Sep 10th, 2005 05:50 PM
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Batman Returns
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i KNOW i read this somewhere that he IS somewhat "forbidden" to use magic in extreme means. i will try to find it.


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2005 04:38 PM
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Ushgarak
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It's an issue fans often confuse, but the only thing explicitly stated is that they were not allowed to make overt shows of power to rule Elves or Men.


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Old Post Sep 12th, 2005 12:15 PM
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The Inkeeper
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No really i agree with Batman (That sounds weird) It does say somewhere they are not allowed to go all out, i will find the quote.


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Old Post Sep 16th, 2005 10:18 PM
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Mnw
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Gandalf is on ME to give men a mere push gandalf defeated a balrog ect. if gandalf had any dount in his mine that Men were in danger, he would of done somthing about it i guess. and istari can just use powers , they have to have permision

Old Post Oct 11th, 2005 07:16 PM
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Ushgarak
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No, he would have done no more about it. Why you are so keen to dismiss any element of drama from the story, I do not know.

And I see no proof of this.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2005 07:24 PM
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ESB -1138
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Gandalf is no god. If Rohan hadn't come to Minas Tirith when they did Gandalf and everyone else in Gondor would have been killed. The wizards are on Middle-Earth solely to help oppose Sauron.


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Old Post Oct 11th, 2005 09:17 PM
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Discos
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Very interesting topic.

I don't get where all the "Gandalf would so lose if he went against Sauron", let me bring you back to where a MAN cut the damn ring off from Sauron's hand to DEFEAT him. weak Isildur defeated the ultimate evil of ME. So why not a Wizard???

Ushgarak has many excellent points and so far I sway to his argument. Gandalf isnt the "exterminator" at Minas Tirith, ok he may be lending a very helpful leadership hand at Minas Tirith - I simply think this was a means of defending himsel - sel defence some may claim?

So lets review "that" scene from the Two Towers. Gandalf appears and bassically blocks 2 objects coming towards him - big wow! I am sure he could not of done that to all the barrage of attack onto Minas Tirith. Now the whol Aragorn's sword becoming heavy came LAST in his list of spells/magic tricks - so I am guessing it took a little extra to conjour up that spell, I can say this for sure that gandalf could not be bothered conjouring up half a Million spells so orcs can drop their worthless weapons so they could go pick them up a second later.

Discos - a rant worth ranting about.


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Old Post Oct 12th, 2005 10:32 PM
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ESB -1138
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So what you are saying is just because a man killed Sauron makes him weak? If that is so, then Boromir getting killed by arrows makes him weak. And Saruman getting his throat cut by Grima makes Saruman weak.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2005 12:24 AM
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JediMasterLuke5
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by The Inkeeper
I have to say if Gandalf went all out i think he would give Sauron a run for his money.

I totally agree, but that is if the Valor allowed him to use his power to his full extent.

Old Post Oct 13th, 2005 12:26 AM
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ESB -1138
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You are basing all this on your opinion on what Gandalf might have instead of what you know Gandalf has. You can say Gandalf can snap his fingers and all the orcs at Minas Tirith would have turned to dust but that never happened so no one knows. You cannot base your arguments on what you think Gandalf could do you can only base your arguments on what you know Gandalf can do.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2005 12:29 AM
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JediMasterLuke5
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Celestial
You are basing all this on your opinion on what Gandalf might have instead of what you know Gandalf has. You can say Gandalf can snap his fingers and all the orcs at Minas Tirith would have turned to dust but that never happened so no one knows. You cannot base your arguments on what you think Gandalf could do you can only base your arguments on what you know Gandalf can do.

I said if the Valor would allow him to use all his power he could have killed sauron, but if the Valor didnt allow him Gandalf would be killed.

Gandalf is the most powerful being in middle earth.

Quote: So am I very Dangerous: more dangerous then any thing you'll ever meet......

Old Post Oct 13th, 2005 12:33 AM
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ESB -1138
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So everything Gandalf says is a lie because you know so much about him

The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Chapter IV: The Siege of Gondor Pg. 800-801 (One volume edition)
'Is Faramir come?' he asked.
'No,' said Gandalf. 'But he still lived when I left him. Yet he is resolved to stay with the reargurad, lest the retreat over the Pelennor become a rout. He may, perhaps, hold his men together long enough, but I doubt it. He is pitted against a foe too great. For one has come that I feared.'
'Not - the Dark Lord?' cried Pippin, forgetting his place in his terror.
Denethor laughed bitterly. 'Nay, not yet, Master Peregrin! He will not come save only to triumph over me when all is won. He uses others as his weapons. So do all great lords, if they are wise, Master Halfling. Or why should I sit here in my tower and think, and watch, and wair, spending even my sons? For I can still wield a brand.'
He stood up and cast opened his long black cloak, and behold! he was clad in mail beneath, and grit with a long sword, great-hilted in a sheath of black and silver. 'Thus have I walked, and thus now for many years have I slept,' he said, 'lest we age the body should grow soft and timid.'
'Yet now under the Lord of Barad-dur the most fell of all his captains is already master of your outer walls' said Gandalf. 'King of Angmar long ago, Sorcerer, Ringwraith, Lord of the Nazgul, a spear of terror in the hand of Sauron, shadow of despair.'
'Then, Mithrandir, you had a foe to match you,' Said Denethor. 'For myself, I have long known who is chief captain of the hosts of the Dark Tower. Is this all that you have returned to say? Or cab it be that you have withdrawn because you are overmatched?'
Pippin trembled, fearing that Gandalf would be stung to sudden wrath, but his fear was needless. 'It might be so,' Gandalf answered softly.


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Old Post Oct 13th, 2005 12:40 AM
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