Taken from the enclopedia of arda... i think we can all agree these nerds have done thier homework...
"We've already commented in the Movie-goers' Guides for The Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers on the film-maker's decision to depict Sauron as a giant glowing eye, whereas Tolkien imagined him as a physical being. In fact his brief appearance in the prologue to the movie of The Fellowship of the Ring - huge and armoured, but basically human in shape - would have been more in keeping with Tolkien's description of him during the War of the Ring.
In fact, there's no clear description of Sauron in The Lord of the Rings itself - we have to resort to Tolkien's correspondence for that. What there are, though, are numerous comments and references that only really make sense if Sauron has a physical form (not least, of course, the fact that a disembodied Dark Lord wouldn't have been able to wear his own Ring).
It's curious, then, to find that one of these clues to his physical nature has been included in the movie's script. Outside the Morannon, Aragorn issues a challenge taken directly from the books: 'Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth! Justice shall be done upon him.' (The Return of the King V 10). This makes perfect sense if Sauron has a physical body, but how exactly Aragorn expects a disembodied Red Eye to 'come forth' from the gate, let alone to 'do justice' on it, is something of a mystery.
There's a clue to this among the material that accompanies the Extended Edition. It seems that the film-makers considered the possibility of Sauron emerging from the Morannon himself, in his full armoured form, to fight Aragorn in single combat. In that context, Aragorn's challenge makes a great deal more sense (though nothing remotely like this happens in the book). "
So there ya have it, if you think that all Sauron really is, is a giant flaming eye...well so sad, so sorry, you are wrong...
thanks for playing, next time know your stuff before you conject to something so... stupid.
__________________ I am proud and honored to be Legolas's sister. In whose friendly embrace i shall feel conforted. And when times are ill he's always by my side.
Ah I have to disagree I'm afraid, and yes I'm also afraid I must quote some things. In actuality Gandalf faces the Nazgul twice, the first time being upon Weathertop
"'I do not know, but it seems clear to me that this is what happened. Their Captain remained in secret away south of Bree, while two rode ahead through the village, and four more invaded the Shire. But when these were foiled in Bree and at Crickhollow, they returned to their Captain with tidings, and so left the Road unguarded for a while, except by their spies. The Captain then sent some eastward straight across country, and he himself with the rest rode along the Road in great wrath.
'I galloped to Weathertop like a gale, and I reached it before sundown on my second day from Bree-and they were there before me. They drew away from me, for they felt the coming of my anger and they dared not face it while the Sun was in the sky . But they closed round at night, and I was besieged on the hill-top, in the old ring of Amon Sûl. I was hard put to it indeed: such light and flame cannot have been seen on Weathertop since the war-beacons of old.
`At sunrise I escaped and fled towards the north. I could not hope to do more. It was impossible to find you, Frodo, in the wilderness, and it would have been folly to try with all the Nine at my heels. So I had to trust to Aragorn. But I hoped to draw some of them off, and yet reach Rivendell ahead of you and send out help. Four Riders did indeed follow me, but they turned back after a while and made for the Ford, it seems. That helped a little, for there were only five, not nine, when your camp was attacked.
(TFotR (II) The Council of Elrond, bold emphasis mine)
As you can see even when Gandalf was Gandalf the Grey he managed to hold off All Nine Nazgul atop of weathertop. He was not able to defeat them but he did hold them off and escape and they dared not attack him during daylight, yet attack him from sundown to sunrise and still manage not to defeat him. It is also a part to point out that not even all the Dunedain barring entrance into the Shire managed to withstand all Nine, and Tolkien says that the same would have been true even if Aragorn were with them.
From this we can assume all Nine at this point could not defeat Gandalf.
The second time they meet would be more well remembered, after Gandalfs death and rebirth as the White, at the siege of Gondor.
"Like thunder they broke upon the enemy on either flank of the retreat; but one rider outran them all, swift as the wind in the grass: Shadowfax bore him, shining, unveiled once more, a light starting from his upraised hand.
The Nazgûl screeched and swept away, for their Captain was not yet come to challenge the white fire of his foe.
(TRotK (II) The Siege of Gondor)"
Some see this as that they were afraid to confront Gandalf without the Lord of the Nazgul, other that the defeat of Gandalf was not their task to bear. If it is the latter then it holds no bear however bringing in the later confrontation between Gandalf and the Lord of the Nazgul at the Great Gate (the Lord of the Nazgul had been enhanced in power by Sauron for this specific battle) it is quite logical to assume that the Nazgul were not a match for Gandalf.
As a counter balance for this it is true that Gandalf himself admits
’I am Gandalf, Gandalf the White, but Black is mightier still.’ (TT- The White Rider)
However the Black is most likely perceived as Sauron*, a fellow Maia and mightier than Gandalf even as The White. Which brings me onto my next point, if Gandalf has wielded the One ring he could have thrown down Sauron but he would himself become a worse dark lord than Sauron that is why he would fear to wield it. I am also of the belief that at this point Sauron had physical form of some sort and could have, if obtained re worn the one ring and become the dark ruler of all of Middle-Earth without opposition.
*This could also be Sauron and all of his forces, Gandalf implying that whilst he was powerful he was not powerful enough to stand up to the might of Mordor alone.
__________________ Yet the making of things is in my heart from my own making by thee; and the child of little understanding that makes a play of the deeds of his father may do so without without thought of mockery, but because he is the son of his father.
We all seem to have forgotten a big detail... The Necromancer. It says that the Necromancer was Sauron, so in answer to the ORIGINAL question...(God I hate it when we get off onto sidetopics)... I believe that, and I may quote...
" Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky.
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone.
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die.
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie."
Who's to say that Sauron didn't just come back to Barad-dur in the form of the Necromancer, rebuild Barad-dur fully, and sit back down on his throne with the Palantir by him, or even in the next room??
So my suggestion is that Sauron, The Necromancer, is in Barad-dur as a somewhat human form, waiting for his Ringwraiths to find the One Ring. He still has nine fingers after all, right?
Last edited by sauronking8 on Dec 22nd, 2009 at 02:41 AM
i dont understand how middle earth was eternally doomed if sauron regained the ring. he already had the ring once... and someone chopped off his finger.
surely there are enough guys with swords in middle earth to continue with the finger chopping?
actually sauron was corporeal even in the late portion of the lord of the rings. that was how he faced the king through the palantari and thats how the hobbit{was it frodo or merry} described it after he stole a look at the palaneteri from gandalf.
Sauron only really lost the ring by his own arrogance. He didn't have to go waving it around while he aided his troops in battle.
Also, Isildur's sword stroke was blind luck and it was with the shattered blade of Narsil, one of the few blades which could get through Sauron's armour.
Finally, the heros of then were greater and the elves power was stronger, I doubt Middle Earth could resist the power of Sauron and his armies in the state it was in during the War of the Ring.
__________________ "All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost."
Actually in the book his ring was cut off his dead body. H ehad already been slain in combat with Elendil and Gil-Galad.
Regardless Middleearth would be screwed. A common theme is that the world and her people have been declining over that years. This is true the military forces of the men and elves of the third age would simply not compare to those of the second age. Afterall most of the elves have left ME and those that have remained are usually weaker, and the blood of nemenor is incredibly thin.
Yeah if i remember correctly then there is only one person who could hope to last 15 seconds with Sauron, and thats Aragorn because i think in the appendix it said that he was an "image of the kings of old" not sure if it means second or possibly First Age, if it was the first he would last at least 2 minutes if not win o.O
I seem to recall reading it somewhere. And according to the wiki JRR Tolkien says it in one of his letters. I don't have them so I can't check, but other sites all seem to agree with it.
KMC Community Forums
Nov 11th, 2005 08:37 PM
