A person doesn't need a god in order to stand for something. And it seems plenty of believers fall as well. Old sayings are good and all, but should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Seems like a good note to ask the question: if the Bible is indeed God's word, is all that is within it to be taken as gospel? Or does an upstanding Christian such as yourself pick and choose which part of the Bible is to be believed and followed?
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From even the greatest of horrors irony is seldom absent.
God instructs us to RIGHTLY DIVIDE His Word. The Bible must be accurately interpreted in understood in its context. Furthermore, God urges us to study His Word so that we can become more proficient at knowing what is His will and what is not, and to better understand How one thing relates to another. God's Word is progressive and constantly lends itself to new revelation. I have read Scriptures before that all of a sudden had another facet of understanding. Its remarkable. It is the Bible, same passage of Scripture, but all of a sudden I will see another aspect of revelation that I did not see before. Studying God's Word produces revelation knowledge. The more of God's Word that you read and study, the more revelation you will get.
Was Jesus was a real man, and could He (quite possibly) be alive today?
Typically when this question is asked, the person asking qualifies the question with "outside of the Bible." We do not grant this idea that the Bible cannot be considered a source of evidence for the existence of Jesus. The New Testament contains hundreds of references to Jesus Christ. There are those who date the writing of the Gospels in the second century A.D., 100+ years after Jesus' death. Even if this were the case (which we strongly dispute), in terms of ancient evidences, writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences.
Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.
It is also important to recognize that in 70 A.D., the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground! We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eye-witnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.
Considering the fact that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant backwater area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:
The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious "Christians " ("named after Christus" which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44 ).
Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, "Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats. . . . He was [the] Christ . . . he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him."
One version reads, "At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders."
Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18).
Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.
The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover, and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy.
Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.
Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of his followers.
Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.
In fact, we can almost reconstruct the gospel just from early non-Christian sources: Jesus was called the Christ (Josephus), did “magic,” led Israel into new teachings, and was hanged on Passover for them (Babylonian Talmud) in Judea (Tacitus), but claimed to be God and would return (Eliezar), which his followers believed - worshipping Him as God (Pliny the Younger).
In conclusion, there is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and Biblical history. Perhaps the greatest evidence that Jesus did exist is the fact that literally thousands of Christians in the first century A.D., including the 12 apostles, were willing to give their lives as martyrs for Jesus Christ. People will die for what they believe to be true, but no one will die for what they know to be a lie.
There is no credible evidence whatsoever for the existence of Jesus. No archaeological evidence, no written evidence, nothing. So it is with Solomon, Moses, David, Abraham, Samson and countless other biblical ‘stars’. All we have are the Levite texts and the Gospel stories in their various versions. So desperate did the religious manipulators become to cross reference ‘Jesus’ that they inserted a pathetically obvious addition into the works of the ‘Jewish’ historian, Josephus, to support the unsupportable. More than 40 writers are known to have chronicled the events of these lands during the alleged time of Jesus, but they don’t mention him.48 A guy who did all the things that he was supposed to have done and no-one records it
Here are a few more Bible myths to explode:
• The idea of the ‘carpenter’ is a translation error. The English translation of ‘carpenter’ comes from the Hebrew word naggar, via the Greek, ho tekton. These words do not mean literally a ‘carpenter’, but people who were masters of their craft and the word was applied to teachers and scholars as well as craftsmen.
• Jesus was definitely not born in a stable and not a single gospel claims this is so. The Christmas nativity is complete invention. The concept comes from Luke’s Gospel which says that Jesus was laid in a manger, an animal feeding box, because there was no room in the inn. But the Greek version, from which the English translation came, says there was no ‘topos’ in the ‘kataluma’ - there was no place in the room.
Matthew’s Gospel specifically states that Jesus was in a house: “And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary, his mother, and fell down and worshipped him.” Mangers were often used for babies when a proper cradle was not available, but they moved the manger to the baby, not the baby to the manger!
• The nativity scene apparently originates with St Francis of Assisi in Greccio, Italy, in 1223 AD. He brought together some local people and their livestock to illustrate the birth of Jesus and this nativity scene quickly caught on. Manger scenes carved from wood became popular all over Italy at Christmas and the rest is history. Giving gifts is not a Christian custom, either. This was done in the Pagan world at New Year long before Christianity. The Christians simply borrowed it, as they did everything else.
• The prophecies said that the ‘messiah’ (messeh, the crocodile of Egypt) would be called Emmanuel, but the name of the Gospel ‘messiah’ was Jesus, or at least its Judean equivalent. Oops! Funny how Christians seem to miss this point when they quote the prophecy about the coming of ‘Emmanuel’ every Christmas. Think of all those children who have been dressed up as Mary, Joseph, shepherds, wise men, donkeys, cows and sheep. This fantasy has been used to indoctrinate countless generations to believe that this is how it all happened, when, in truth, the nativity and the Christmas story are the acting out of translation errors, an invention of St
Francis, and the mid-winter rituals of Pagan beliefs. I say, Jenny and Johnny, before you don those costumes this year, can I have a quiet word?
• The Christian Eucharist, when they eat bread and drink wine to symbolise the body and blood of Christ, originates with a cannibalistic ritual when they ate and drank the real thing in animal and human sacrifices. Most of the Christian terms come from the Greek, including Christ and Christianity. Among many others are Church (the Lord’s House), Ecclesiastical (Ecclesia, the Greek Assembly or Parliament), Apostle (missionary), Presbyter/priest (elder), and baptism (immersion).
• Even according to the Gospel stories, Jesus was surrounded by terrorists. Simon Magus was known as Simon Zelotes (the Zealot) to acknowledge his role as a commander of the Zealots, the ‘freedom fighters’ who advocated a war against the Romans. Another description is Simon ‘Kananites’, a Greek word meaning fanatic.
This was translated into English as Simon the Canaanite! Judas ‘Iscariot’ derives from the word Sicarius, which meant assassin. There was a terrorist group called the Sicani or Sons of the Dagger, and this name comes from the word, Sica, meaning curved dagger. Sicarius became the Greek, Sikariotes, and this was later mistranslated into English as Iscariot. The Zealots-Sicani would raid Roman supply caravans and ambush their soldiers very much along the lines of terrorist groups like the IRA in
Northern Ireland.
• People were not crucified for theft which makes the story of the two thieves crucified with Jesus another invention. It is a ‘steal’ once again because the same story was told about some of the pre-Christian Jesus figures. The punishment for the ‘crimes’ Jesus was accused of in the Gospels would have been stoning to death by the Judean authorities, not the Romans.
• Pontius Pilatus, the Roman Procurator in this period, is supposed to have washed his hands and passed on responsibility for the death of ‘Jesus’ to the crowd. The washing of hands to indicate innocence was the custom of the Essene community. The Bible says that it was the Roman custom at the time of the Passover Festival to offer a prisoner for release, but this is simply not true. There was no such custom and the scene is invention.
You can write an entire book about the myths in the Bible and, in fact, someone has.
It’s called, appropriately, Bible Myths, and if you want detailed documentation of the information in this chapter I thoroughly recommend it. ? Philo lived throughout the supposed life of Jesus and wrote a history of the Judeans which covered the whole of this period. He even lived in or near Jerusalem when Jesus was said to have been born and Herod was supposed to have killed the children, yet he doesn’t record any of this. He was there when Jesus is said to have made his triumphant arrival in Jerusalem and when he was crucified and rose from the dead on the third day.
What does Philo say about these fantastic events? Nothing.
Not a syllable. Not a titter.49 None of this is mentioned in any Roman record or in the contemporary accounts of the writers of Greece and Alexandria who were familiar with what happened there.
Why? Because it didn’t happen. It was a symbolic, coded story to pass on esoteric and astrological knowledge of many kinds and, most crucially, to create another prisonreligion based on the symbols of the Babylonian Brotherhood. The human race hasbeen had. Big time.
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"How about this? Shut your mouth...Or I'll kick your teeth down your throat and shut it for you."
Which fairytale you choose to believe doesn't much matter so long as you buy into one of them and, of course, your DNA is always there to guide you. The idea is to keep you focused on one obsession so you don't see the guy at the stove preparing the gravy
The Bible, when portrayed as the actual word of God, is the most destructive book on earth. The literal rather than symbolic interpretation, no matter how contradictory, leaves no room for independent thought or reappraisal in the light of new understanding. It is a sheep pen for the mind. There is no question, no discussion, no debate. The religion dictates what is and what isn't and that's all you need to know. The sight of soldiers praying to God and asking Jesus for support before battles of mass murder in Iraq reveals a level of contradiction, self-delusion and childlike naivety that beggars belief.
Only to a victim of the God Program could breaking free be condemned as the work of the Devil. It is sobering to realise that no matter how much knowledge is put in front of people some are so utterly caught that they will go to any lengths to make it fit their religious belief.
What makes me smile is that they all think they are following a unique faith when they all come from the same blueprint, and they all have a need to wear uniforms. If you saw an orthodox Jew wouldn't you know immediately with the beard, black hat and long black coat?
Would you not know a Muslim immediately, or Sikh, or Buddhist, or Christian priest? It's the herd mentality made manifest. Another hook in the God Program is obedience to the founders of the faith. To Christians it's Jesus; to Jews it's Abraham or Moses; to Muslims it's Mohammed; to Sikhs it's Guru Nanak; to Buddhists it's Buddha blah blah . I can't keep up with all this.
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"How about this? Shut your mouth...Or I'll kick your teeth down your throat and shut it for you."
Gender: Male Location: Drifting off around the bend
I believe this is in reference to the three wise men from the east, if I am wrong, sorry. While most of what you have written I have not researched, this one is a simple misconception. It appears you fell into the same misconception as most Christians.
The three wise men appeared some time following Christs birth, not while he was necessarily a newborn. The fact that the story states that they visited Herod, and following their visit Herod edicts the killing of children 2 years old or younger suggests it may have been up to two years later that the wise men visited the baby Jesus.
Where ever they were from, they had to travel, probably wouldn't have been very soon after the birth.
Now, I did not research these things, it is merely based on the Bible text.
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Robbin' from the rich to give to themselves
Last edited by Regret on Jul 8th, 2006 at 11:09 PM
Well, I am a teacher of the Word of God; called, commissioned, and anointed (i.e., empowered by the Holy Spirit) to teach the Word of God.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Ephesians 4:11-16
11 And He (Jesus the Christ) Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.
Last edited by JesusIsAlive on Jul 8th, 2006 at 11:39 PM
Wow I read your links, especially on Islam, I loved it you ignorant bastard. Go read a Quran before you link us to your sites that are so far from the truth about Islam that it is crazy.
Funny how religions, and people in general, want the freedom to promote theirown beliefs, yet seek to silence those who present another view. But, then, that's religions for you. Fairness and truth were never its strongest points.
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"How about this? Shut your mouth...Or I'll kick your teeth down your throat and shut it for you."
The three Magi , or "Wise men", weren't really wise men. Magi were pagan seers. This is another propoganda tool of the time. Anyone who heard or was told this part would have seen this as a metaphore for all other religions bowing before the Christ.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
So basically after talking about you do not name call and do not downsize people like they do to you, you do the exact same, not only that you did not respond to my statement in anyway besides an insult. Do you love Jesus, or are you IN LOVE with him, do you like him or like like him?
Me telling you that you have a high I.Q. is an insult? Well I never.
Second, I believe that you brought reproach and shame on yourself using profanity towards me when I did not do it to you. If I had done that to you then you would have a case against me. Third, your embarrasment is self-inflicted. I know you want to pass the buck but I was trying to get you to see the error of your ways. Intelligent people don't call other people demeaning names. It is childlish, immature, and dumb--you are not dumb, let me clarify that before you write me another ignorant post. Again the post is ignorant not you.
KMC Community Forums
Jul 8th, 2006 12:23 PM
