What do you mean 'for no particular reason'? That is nonsense again- that is exactly how they would fall! As X says, of course, Building 7 didn't even vaguely pancake- dunno where you got that from, Ashtar. Not very accurate lately, are you?
Though literally speaking the WTCs didn't pancake, because the upper floors actually fell through the lower ones.
As for Building 7 being demolished- another idiotic myth.
"With the benefit of more time and resources, NIST researchers now support the working hypothesis that WTC 7 was far more compromised by falling debris than the FEMA report indicated. "The most important thing we found was that there was, in fact, physical damage to the south face of building 7. On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom--approximately 10 stories--about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out." NIST also discovered previously undocumented damage to WTC 7's upper stories and its southwest corner.
NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.
According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation: First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
WTC 7 might have withstood the physical damage it received, or the fire that burned for hours, but those combined factors--along with the building's unusual construction--were enough to set off the chain-reaction collapse.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Jul 31st, 2006 at 12:52 AM
Gender: Male Location: The sewers of the Big City!
Physical damage from flying debris and you accuse my reason of being idiotic? The building collapsed on 9/11 8+ hours after the attack. Building 7 was not hit by an aircraft, nor did it suffer extensive damage from the collapse of either tower. Building 7 was further away from many buildings which survived the attack including buildings like Bankers Trust, and WTC6 (In-between 7 and the Tower). Building 7 was easily the most engineered building around the complex. Bankers Trust was the closest large building to the World Trade Center towers. Only across the street. The vast majority of the damage is very light, with one outer column missing, no breech of the inner core has occurred so the building could easily have sustained much more damage and still survived. This was the closest “big” building to the towers, WTC7 was much further away but collapsed.
The official reports by NIST, FEMA and the 9-11 Commission strikingly omit mention of large quantities of molten metal observed in the basement areas of WTC 7 and the Towers.As you observed (link above), WTC 7 collapsed rapidly and nearly-straight-down symmetrically -- even though fires were randomly scattered in the building. WTC 7 fell about seven hours after the Towers collapsed, even though no major persistent fires were visible (considerable dark smoke was seen). There were twenty-four huge steel support columns inside WTC 7 as well as huge trusses, arranged non-symmetrically, along with some fifty-seven perimeter columns,no steel-beam high-rise had ever before (or since) completely collapsed due to fires! However, such complete and nearly symmetrical collapses in tall steel-frame buildings have occurred many times before -- all of them due to pre-positioned explosives in a procedure called “implosion” or controlled demolition. What a surprise, then, for such an occurrence in downtown Manhattan— three skyscrapers completely collapsed on the same day, September 11, 2001,
NO STEEL BUILDING HAS EVER FALLEN TO FIRE you keep ignoring that point, but no matter how you try the fact remain.buildings that have had much intense fires for longer times have all one thing in common they never fell as a result of fire.Fire and the structural damage does not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to have been partly evaporated
Gender: Male Location: The sewers of the Big City!
By the way The NIST team fairly admits that their report “does not actually include the structural behavior of the tower after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached.” (NIST, 2005, p. 80, fn. 12; )
Every time you say 'no steel building has ever fallen to fire' you just make yourself look more of an idiot. No steel building ever had a fire combined with a plane crash, or other massoive structural damage, of that nature before so your previous comparisons are all totally irrelevant. The plane crash, and the damage it caused, made the fire fatal to the building. That is the opinion of nearly all experts in the field.
The restof your post is, as ever, just misdirection and lies. Saying that building 7 caollapsed straight down symmetrically- lie. Saying it was not badly damaged during the WTC incident- lie, investigations have found that actually it was.
Having refuted your silly idea about what FEMA says- which exposed you as a person who does jot check his cources and makes hasty and ill-considered posts- and also knocked this idea about Building 7 on the head, I am now done again. You got any 'refutations', go back and read my posts again, because that is all you ever need to do.
If anyone amkes another silly and outrageous claim here, I'll be back to refte that as well.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Gender: Male Location: The sewers of the Big City!
How does that apply to building seven, where no plane hit it?
and the structual damage for the towers doesn't explain why the support columns simply vanished. you can spew the support story all you want in the end the only argument you have is tha your backed up by a majority of experts.
I already backed up what I said, if you think I'm lying that's your problem. you can repeat what you said a trillion times none of it can apply to building seven nor does it explain the other huge holes in the official story. like gold being missing from a vault or countless people being told not to fly on 911, like mayor willie brown. your explanation does NOT account for the fact that tower fell to fast. had the floors fell on from the weight of each other the building would not have free fell.
When I feel the rhythm of life, I dance. When I hear it speak to me, I listen. I go where the music takes me, no matter how incredible it may be or what consequences it may have for my life. For those who haven’t tried that yet, you will be amazed at what an adventure life suddenly becomes, what knowledge you can access, grasp and understand, when you go with the flow and cease to wage war with it for fear of being different. For most people so often the head gets in the way because they fear stepping outside of convention. They fear what other people will think and say about them. But how can you expose the unthinkable unless you think the unthinkable? Are we saying that we know it all? Is there nothing left to know? Of course there is. We know only a fraction of it all. And what has been the force that has brought us even to our current state of knowledge? Those who have dared to think and communicate the unthinkable. Without such people the human race cannot evolve; it just runs on the spot, living within a perpetual prison of the mind. What was that they said? Humans will fly? Ridiculous! That we can travel beyond the speed of sound? Crazy! That we can create babies in a test tube and clone the human and animal species? Ludicrous! Yet all and more have been done by those who have thought the unthinkable while the masses mocked. Give it a try before you forget how to do it. Think beyond the bounds of what you are told is reality.
To refuse to do so is the ultimate prison cell, the ultimate mental and emotional stagnation - the ultimate control. Indeed it is the way we have been controlled since this whole scam began.
- the biggest secret
__________________
"How about this? Shut your mouth...Or I'll kick your teeth down your throat and shut it for you."
"History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into economic and political decline.
Antony Sutton (America's Secret Establishment - An Introduction to the Order of Skull & Bones - commenting on the philisophical outlook of the Controllers):
"We're going to use the Hegelian Dialectic process to bring about a society in which the state is in absolute and total powerful control, a New World Order where the state is absolute and the individual can only find freedom in blind obedience to the state."
Des Griffin:
"In order to establish how deeply the secret societies have penetrated politics, it is necessary to understand how the history of the twentieth century has been molded by a hidden power group. This group is not necessarily aligned to either the left or right wings of the conventional political movements which have taken the public role in shaping World events in the years since the end of World War 1. It operates within both capitalism and communism and has as it's ultimate goal a politico-spiritual vision which transcends both these materialistic systems which are used to control the masses."
__________________ "To ignore factual reality by believing it to be otherwise does not mean that a person is removed from that reality. It only means that they suffer it ignorantly."
Excerpts from "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" (translated by Victor Marsden):
* "The best results in governing are attained by violence and terrorization, not by academic discussion."
* "The ruler who is governed by the moral is not a skilled politician."
* "Great national qualities like frankness and honesty are vices in politics."
* "The Political has nothing in common with the moral."
* "We must not stop at bribery, deceit, and treachery when they should serve towards the attainment of our end."
Des Griffin:
"The men who conceived the diabolical conspiracy as laid out in the Protocols were not atheists; they were members of the Illuminati, followers of the original "light bearer", Satan the Devil. They were worshippers of Satan. This is the plan of Satan."
Henry Ford:
"The only statement I care to make about the Protocols is that they fit in with what is going on. They are at least sixteen years old, and they have fitted the World situation up to this time. They fit it now."
Two phrases that frequently appear in the Illuminati Protocols:
Goyim - Which means "Human Cattle", which is a slur used by the Illuminati to categorize people of every race or creed who aren't members of the Illuminati.
Agentur - Which means all of the agents who are used by the Illuminati.
PS - If people were ever wondering whether the Illuminati tied in with politics or not...all they have to do is look at the above excerpts from the Illuminati Protocols and they will realize that the Illuminati is VERY involved with World Politics.
__________________ "To ignore factual reality by believing it to be otherwise does not mean that a person is removed from that reality. It only means that they suffer it ignorantly."
Adam Weishaupt (founder of the Illuminati in 1776):
"Reason will be the only code of Man. This is one of our greatest secrets. When at last Reason becomes the religion of man, then will the problem be solved."
Bertrand Russell (Famous 20th century philosipher, who wrote in Impact of Science on Society (1953):
"Education should aim at destroying free will so that after pupils have left school, they shall be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting other than their schoolmaster would have wished."
David Rockefeller:
"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
__________________ "To ignore factual reality by believing it to be otherwise does not mean that a person is removed from that reality. It only means that they suffer it ignorantly."
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Jul 31st, 2006 12:34 AM
