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Is Superman the ultimate Superhero?
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I-Drop
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Again, you turn this into who's more powerful. I'd want Silver Surfer there. The Wizard thing wasn't a fan poll either. I've already answered your question. "No"


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2005 07:22 AM
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FistOfThe North
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by brainchild81
I've already answered your question. "No"


To each his one but one thing, can you tell me what ultimate is to you?


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2005 02:26 PM
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I-Drop
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As far as Superheroes go? The most innovative. The coolest battles. The coolest costume. The most interesting characters. The best stories. Most original powers(Supes couldn't fly until after Cap. Marvel did it 1st) Realism and relatability to an extent. The problems they face in AND out of costume and how they deal with them.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2005 06:32 PM
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Piedmon
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Being the ultimate superhero shouldn't be about whether kids in Bangkok know you.

For my money, the ultimate superhero is Batman. I think he represents what it means to assume an identity beyond your own and battle evil better than Superman.

I wouldn't say Wolverine, btw, is a superhero at all.


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Old Post Nov 21st, 2005 10:45 PM
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Hegemon875
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Piedmon


I wouldn't say Wolverine, btw, is a superhero at all.


But he does have the most interesting origin IMO big grin

Old Post Nov 21st, 2005 10:52 PM
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FistOfThe North
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Piedmon
I wouldn't say Wolverine, btw, is a superhero at all.


Why cause he kills people? I once saw this comic where Wolverine wiped out a whole cafe' of mafia men. I mean literally slaughtered them, lol. Just because they were gonna harm some little girl he met earlier.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2005 12:32 AM
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Piedmon
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Not that. If you look at his history, Wolverine never CHOSE to be a superhero. He was kidnapped and twisted by the Weapon Plus program, turned into a living weapon.

I'm not saying that you have to be an altruist to be a hero, or that all heroes choose to be heroes. But a SUPER-hero? Think about it.


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Old Post Nov 22nd, 2005 01:38 AM
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spetznaz
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by brainchild81
I haven't heard anybody say that for Supes in a while either. I have heard various people say my Spidey sense is tingling and nowadays whenever a list is printed Spidey's on top more often than not. Many of today's kids don't even know Supes, but they all know Spidey and most know Batman


It was funny reading your statements.
Here you are saying that 'most of today's kids don't even know Supes' ....'but they all know Spidey'.....

First of all that is a lie. A bald-faced lie.

Superman ....a comic-book character ....has a plaque at the United Nations. Not even presidents get such stuff, but there is a S in the UN. Something living breathing dignitaries and nobel winners do not just get.
Imagine the laughter that would ensue if Marvel asked for a plaque at the UN building for Spiderman!
Spiderman!
The mere thought of it is so ridiculous that the United Nations would think of it as some twisted joke (and Marvel would be too ashamed to even dare)
(And BTW DC did not even ask for one for Supes .....the delegation voted for one due to what Superman stood for, and what he symbolized even though he was simply a fictional character).

Superman has been used in outreach programs against landmines around the world (they needed something that could be easily understood by children anywhere). He has been used in disaster relief programs (basically saying that even though no-one can do what he can do they can still give money and time towards relief).
Spiderman ....well .....when his movies come out you can always find free plastic toys in McDonalds happy meals.

Superman is the 3rd most recognized symbol IN THE WORLD. Note: I did not say 'comic book symbol' ....simply symbol. More people will notice the cross, but after that Superman comes up.
What about Spiderman? Well, what about him?

Since Superman came out in 1938 he has been regarded as the definitive superhero, and even now he is regarded as the most influential and well-known superhero character.

Even moving to etymology. The word 'SuperHero' stems from Superman (the phrase started around the beginning of WW2).

Now: I have to give some props to Spiderman. The beauty about the character is that he shows someone who strives, and struggles, with the requirements for responsibility. Spiderman is one of the first truly 'human' superheroes (in many ways even more 'human' that Batman, who can at times be somewhere between a super-man and a deity, and other times a sulking darkened soul). Spiderman has a lot of character depth to him. Moreover his movies have done extremely well, and by any measures should continue to do so.

HOWEVER saying that 'modern kids everywhere' know Spiderman, but nore know Superman, is not only hyperbole but an outright lie.

Spiderman doesn't come close to Superman's recognition. Not even close.

Not taking anything away from Spiderman (I like the character), but comparing Spidey to Superman is tantamount to comparing a very nice Acura sedan (Spiderman) to Bugatti Veyron supercar (Superman).
Super.

Old Post Nov 23rd, 2005 01:41 AM
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FistOfThe North
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Piedmon
Not that. He was kidnapped and twisted by the Weapon Plus program, Think about it.


Wasn't it the "Weapon X project" Logan was apart of"?


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2005 04:08 PM
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ZephroCarnelian
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by spetznaz
It was funny reading your statements.
Here you are saying that 'most of today's kids don't even know Supes' ....'but they all know Spidey'.....

First of all that is a lie. A bald-faced lie.

Superman ....a comic-book character ....has a plaque at the United Nations. Not even presidents get such stuff, but there is a S in the UN. Something living breathing dignitaries and nobel winners do not just get.
Imagine the laughter that would ensue if Marvel asked for a plaque at the UN building for Spiderman!
Spiderman!
The mere thought of it is so ridiculous that the United Nations would think of it as some twisted joke (and Marvel would be too ashamed to even dare)
(And BTW DC did not even ask for one for Supes .....the delegation voted for one due to what Superman stood for, and what he symbolized even though he was simply a fictional character).

Superman has been used in outreach programs against landmines around the world (they needed something that could be easily understood by children anywhere). He has been used in disaster relief programs (basically saying that even though no-one can do what he can do they can still give money and time towards relief).
Spiderman ....well .....when his movies come out you can always find free plastic toys in McDonalds happy meals.

Superman is the 3rd most recognized symbol IN THE WORLD. Note: I did not say 'comic book symbol' ....simply symbol. More people will notice the cross, but after that Superman comes up.
What about Spiderman? Well, what about him?

Since Superman came out in 1938 he has been regarded as the definitive superhero, and even now he is regarded as the most influential and well-known superhero character.

Even moving to etymology. The word 'SuperHero' stems from Superman (the phrase started around the beginning of WW2).

Now: I have to give some props to Spiderman. The beauty about the character is that he shows someone who strives, and struggles, with the requirements for responsibility. Spiderman is one of the first truly 'human' superheroes (in many ways even more 'human' that Batman, who can at times be somewhere between a super-man and a deity, and other times a sulking darkened soul). Spiderman has a lot of character depth to him. Moreover his movies have done extremely well, and by any measures should continue to do so.

HOWEVER saying that 'modern kids everywhere' know Spiderman, but nore know Superman, is not only hyperbole but an outright lie.

Spiderman doesn't come close to Superman's recognition. Not even close.

Not taking anything away from Spiderman (I like the character), but comparing Spidey to Superman is tantamount to comparing a very nice Acura sedan (Spiderman) to Bugatti Veyron supercar (Superman).
Super.


As akways... a pleasure to read. smile


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Old Post Nov 25th, 2005 04:10 PM
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Piedmon
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by FistOfThe North
Wasn't it the "Weapon X project" Logan was apart of"?


Well, no. The Weapon X Program was a special subdivision of Weapon Plus. The purpose of Weapon Plus was to create "Super-Sentinels" to combat the growing Mutant Menace. (The first product of their experiments was Captain America in the 1940's, although Steve Rogers had no idea this was the intention behind the super soldier serum.) The subdivision Weapon X, however, specifically dealt with turning Mutants into government-controlled weapons to battle their own kind.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2005 04:50 AM
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FistOfThe North
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Piedmon
Well, no. The Weapon X Program was a special subdivision of Weapon Plus. The purpose of Weapon Plus was to create "Super-Sentinels" to combat the growing Mutant Menace. (The first product of their experiments was Captain America in the 1940's, although Steve Rogers had no idea this was the intention behind the super soldier serum.) The subdivision Weapon X, however, specifically dealt with turning Mutants into government-controlled weapons to battle their own kind.


So Logan was apart of a "Weapon Plus" subprogram called "Weapon X" then. Since, as you say, "The subdivision Weapon X specifically dealt with turning Mutants into government-controlled weapons to battle their own kind." Sounds like Wolverine to me.


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2005 02:53 PM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by spetznaz
Superman is the 3rd most recognized symbol IN THE WORLD. Note: I did not say 'comic book symbol' ....simply symbol. More people will notice the cross, but after that Superman comes up.


There's the cross, Superman...what's the third one?


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Old Post Nov 26th, 2005 10:21 PM
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I-Drop
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by spetznaz
It was funny reading your statements.
Here you are saying that 'most of today's kids don't even know Supes' ....'but they all know Spidey'.....

First of all that is a lie. A bald-faced lie.

Superman ....a comic-book character ....has a plaque at the United Nations. Not even presidents get such stuff, but there is a S in the UN. Something living breathing dignitaries and nobel winners do not just get.
Imagine the laughter that would ensue if Marvel asked for a plaque at the UN building for Spiderman!
Spiderman!
The mere thought of it is so ridiculous that the United Nations would think of it as some twisted joke (and Marvel would be too ashamed to even dare)
(And BTW DC did not even ask for one for Supes .....the delegation voted for one due to what Superman stood for, and what he symbolized even though he was simply a fictional character).

Superman has been used in outreach programs against landmines around the world (they needed something that could be easily understood by children anywhere). He has been used in disaster relief programs (basically saying that even though no-one can do what he can do they can still give money and time towards relief).
Spiderman ....well .....when his movies come out you can always find free plastic toys in McDonalds happy meals.
Let me guess, this U.N. thing happened years ago when more people cared about Supes didn't it? As for kids not knowing Supes, I was mainly speaking about kids in the U.S. Spidey seems to be far more well known amongst the youngsters. Honestly though, I agree w/this
quote: (post)
Originally posted by Piedmon
Being the ultimate superhero shouldn't be about whether kids in Bangkok know you.
Supes may be the most well known superhero in the world, but that's not what being the Ultimate is about. I'm quite sure fame had something to do with the Wizard and Bravo lists, @ the end of the day though, they gave it to Spidey because when you add it all up, Spidey's the man.(I was surprised when Bravo gave Supes 2nd instead of Bats though. In this case I'll just say 2nd place is just the 1st loser evil face ) Hate it or love it, the underdog's on top. Happy Dance


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Old Post Nov 30th, 2005 06:34 AM
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FistOfThe North
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So Brainchild81. Do you think an Ultimate Superhero is practically unbeatable? Meaning he/she has weaknesses but hardly has any opponent who can singlehandedly defeat him/her. If so, I'm afraid Spiderman falls way out of this category.

To me, The Ultimate Superhero is able to kick major arse alot of the time against even the more powerful foes without getting scraped up to much. I don't see Spiderman defeating the most powerful bad guy in Marvel, which is in my opinion, Dr. Doom. I see Superman doing it effortlessly. And not saying Spiderman sucks, I think he owns especially when he goes berserk, and I think he can even smack Wolverine up. Just saying he isn't the Ultimate. And to say he is even if it's opinionated would be nonsensical.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2005 05:16 AM
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I-Drop
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You must not understand my posts. Spidey NOT being practically unbeatable is one of the things I like most about him. Supes is waaaay more powerful than Spidey. We all know that. I've already said that it's not about power, because that would automatically take Spidey AND Supes out of the running. You seem like you're probably a youngster. I liked Supes when I was younger too. When I got older though and my standards got higher I realized how "over the top" his powers and disguise were. That glasses thing is ridiculous. Period. Look @ the fights between Neo and Smith in the 1st Matrix movie w/all the cool moves. That's like Spideystyle fighting. Look @ the boring flying around and punching each other in the hands crap in the last movie. That's Supesstyle.


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Last edited by I-Drop on Dec 1st, 2005 at 06:01 AM

Old Post Dec 1st, 2005 05:53 AM
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FistOfThe North
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by brainchild81
You must not understand my posts. Spidey NOT being practically unbeatable is one of the things I like most about him. Supes is waaaay more powerful than Spidey. We all know that. I've already said that it's not about power, because that would automatically take Spidey AND Supes out of the running. You seem like you're probably a youngster. I liked Supes when I was younger too. When I got older though and my standards got higher I realized how "over the top" his powers and disguise were. That glasses thing is ridiculous. Period. Look @ the fights between Neo and Smith in the 1st Matrix movie w/all the cool moves. That's like Spideystyle fighting. Look @ the boring flying around and punching each other in the hands crap in the last movie. That's Supesstyle.


You're posts have been more amusing than understandable. And how are you calling me a youngster, which i'm not, yet your name's brainchild, c'mon.

You wrote "Spidey NOT being practically unbeatable is one of the things I like most about him" Hey, If your inclined to the weaker side of things then hey, have at it. Someone always getting his arse kicked alot is pathetic to me. I think your standards sunk lower, as you got older by having Spidey as your preferred superhero over Superman.

Spidey fights flashy but if just flying and punching you into oblivion would work, then I'd be Superman.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2005 06:15 PM
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DarkCrawler
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To me, the Ultimate Superhero is what first comes in your mind when you hear the word: "superhero".

And that's Superman. And no-one else.


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2005 07:12 PM
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DarkCrawler
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by brainchild81
You must not understand my posts. Spidey NOT being practically unbeatable is one of the things I like most about him. Supes is waaaay more powerful than Spidey. We all know that. I've already said that it's not about power, because that would automatically take Spidey AND Supes out of the running. You seem like you're probably a youngster. I liked Supes when I was younger too. When I got older though and my standards got higher I realized how "over the top" his powers and disguise were. That glasses thing is ridiculous. Period. Look @ the fights between Neo and Smith in the 1st Matrix movie w/all the cool moves. That's like Spideystyle fighting. Look @ the boring flying around and punching each other in the hands crap in the last movie. That's Supesstyle.


So...being cool is what makes you ultimate superhero? confused


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2005 07:13 PM
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FistOfThe North
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
So...being cool is what makes you ultimate superhero? confused


lol, I swear thats what he's implying.

That to him, the Ultimate superhero should:

1. fight cool
2. have a cool costume
3. say cool things
4. look cool
5. have cooler stories
&
6. have a cool personality when he's not being the "Ultimate" Superhero.

That's just ludicrously & laughably dumb.

laughing out loud


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Old Post Dec 1st, 2005 09:19 PM
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