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Dumbledore's Death Definately a fake
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nighdawg
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Dumbledore's Death Definately a fake

I have a number of obviouse clues to prove he's alive, well not fully dead more or less.

1) He planned the whole fake death from the onset of the book.

Proof: We learn through the book how good he is at speculating reactions of Voldemort even though he knows little about him. Thence we should deduce he would definatly know Harry's reactions. So by freezing Harry ha allowed a scene to take place without Harry's intervention. Remember Dumbledore tells Harry to keep his Invisibility cloak with him all the time, and orders him to put it on before they go to the tower. He also allows certain information to reach Harry through Hagrid which whom he trusts his life with.

2) Dumbledore a product of Living Death Draught

Proof: What was the strange draught Harry forced him to drink? Could it be the Living Death Draught which is prominently featured in this book. Also the only potion not actually used by anyone in the book (Or so we are mislead). He looks awfully dead at the end to Harry, but Hagrid takes him away and his body is only assumed to be carried to the tomb. And of course as many point out, where is his wand?

3) Snape's on Dumbledore's side for real

Proof: One single line of text helps clearify everything. When Narcissa and Bella go to Snape's house, wormtail is there. AND he is rubbing his arm which is covered in a silver glove. Why tell us this? Oh thats right it just so happens Dumbledore's got something wrong with his arm and hand as well. Could Dumbledore be impersonating wormtail. Definately. Also why doesn't Snape admit he knows that Harry has the Half Blood Prince's book (Which was his). Well simply because it was planted for Harry to have it all along. Why? Well Hermoine is the only one that trusts Snape. But she can't stand whoever owned the HBP book and thinks he's evil. Of course when she finds out it was Snape, she turns on him. Which makes her a valuable testament as well as Harry and Ron. Oh and why exactly does Snape goad Harry into learning to do spells without speaking them. Because he wants Harry to win. Lots of people think Snape's revulsion at killing Dumbledore is because he really hates him, actually he doesn't really find the idea of joining Voldemort and slinking around behind his back very enjoyable, would you?

Those are only a few things. I could elaborate and certainly answer any questions you naysayers might have!!!

Old Post Nov 17th, 2005 08:48 PM
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zombieman
The Undead

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You have built up some fair arguements there, but nothing conclusive. There is plenty of evidence to argue the opposite (but it has been mentioned countless time in other threads, so I won't bother).

I like the idea that the living death draught was planted there by members of the order of the phoenix (perhaps RAB is three people? R could be Remus, B could be Black) as part of an elaborate scheme against the Dark Lord.

Old Post Nov 17th, 2005 09:00 PM
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Emily_depp
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wow u kno your stuff


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Old Post Nov 17th, 2005 10:34 PM
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nighdawg
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RAB

I have a speculation on RAB, Regulus ? Black, Serius brother. Lupin mentions that he dissappeared a couple of days after deserting the death eaters .... "as far as he remembers" or something like that. Why wouldn't he remember more clearly? And last time I checked dissappeared doesn't equal dead. Plus this would be a great way to redeem Serius Black and the Black name. Remember the other key part of that text is deserting the death eaters. Oh and right after Lupin says this Mrs. Weasely hushes him... Interesting eh?

Old Post Nov 18th, 2005 03:30 AM
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Barker
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It's Not Black. Can't Be. Jo Wouldn't Put Something That Obvious In There. If she Did, I would Fear For Her Life.


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Old Post Nov 18th, 2005 05:18 AM
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H. S. 6
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We have a Speculation forum, and I and others have named everything you've just posted.

http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/introduction.html

wink


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Old Post Nov 19th, 2005 01:21 AM
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DarkC
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Re: Dumbledore's Death Definately a fake

quote: (post)
Originally posted by nighdawg

2) Dumbledore a product of Living Death Draught
Proof: What was the strange draught Harry forced him to drink? Could it be the Living Death Draught which is prominently featured in this book.

Not unless it forces terrible visions upon its drinker, which I highly doubt being a example of a sleeping potion.


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Old Post Nov 19th, 2005 05:59 PM
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H. S. 6
Approaching the End

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkC
Not unless it forces terrible visions upon its drinker, which I highly doubt being a example of a sleeping potion.


Nightmares?


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Old Post Nov 19th, 2005 08:58 PM
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zac_j
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dont u think that they would be smart enough to check for a heartbeat?


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Old Post Nov 19th, 2005 09:22 PM
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Archer
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I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks hes not dead.

The spell snape use to kill him is a clue as well. the spell kills
instantly and don't bownce them up and over things.


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Last edited by Archer on Nov 19th, 2005 at 10:30 PM

Old Post Nov 19th, 2005 10:20 PM
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H. S. 6
Approaching the End

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by zac_j
dont u think that they would be smart enough to check for a heartbeat?


I really don't want to get into that now. stick out tongue

If you want to hear my views, go to the Speculation thread, or even check out this site:


http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/introduction.html


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2005 03:27 AM
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The Phantom
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by zombieman
You have built up some fair arguements there, but nothing conclusive. There is plenty of evidence to argue the opposite (but it has been mentioned countless time in other threads, so I won't bother).

I like the idea that the living death draught was planted there by members of the order of the phoenix (perhaps RAB is three people? R could be Remus, B could be Black) as part of an elaborate scheme against the Dark Lord.
Crap... how did I not notice that... You went further on my idea of being three people...


Anyway, great ideas, but I don't know. We know Snape is on his side, yes. But the potion idea, though great, is kinda off.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by DarkC
Not unless it forces terrible visions upon its drinker, which I highly doubt being a example of a sleeping potion.
Exactly what this person said. Your first reason made no sense to me so I can't say much on that. Presonally, I think he is dead... though that might also be because I want him to be dead. (Don't yell at me for that people, it is a book. Besides, I have my reasons for wanting it, but this isn't the time nor place for it.)


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2005 03:46 AM
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Imperial_Samura
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I give it could have been that potion, but I still have doubts for another of reasons -

-First it took quite some time to take effect, and if it was part of some bigger scheme to fake Dumbledore's death it seems it relied on alot of luck and miraculously good timing - I mean that he goes into his death like sleep just at the moment Snape cast a killing spell? Very, very risky.

-Second, Snape cast a killing spell at almost point blank range - could anyone have survived that (unless it's a special case like Harry)

-Thirdly, He fell off a really, really tall tower. To the ground. While dead or asleep - I don't know, but if the spell didn't kill him, and the potion didn't, I'd have thought that would.

-Surely with all those knowledgeable witches and wizards about someone would have realised he wasn't dead, even if it was a really deep death like sleep like the potion causes. I mean they had Slughorn, the one potion master who might be better even then Snape.


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Old Post Nov 20th, 2005 01:15 PM
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H. S. 6
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
I give it could have been that potion, but I still have doubts for another of reasons -

-First it took quite some time to take effect, and if it was part of some bigger scheme to fake Dumbledore's death it seems it relied on alot of luck and miraculously good timing - I mean that he goes into his death like sleep just at the moment Snape cast a killing spell? Very, very risky.

-Second, Snape cast a killing spell at almost point blank range - could anyone have survived that (unless it's a special case like Harry)

-Thirdly, He fell off a really, really tall tower. To the ground. While dead or asleep - I don't know, but if the spell didn't kill him, and the potion didn't, I'd have thought that would.

-Surely with all those knowledgeable witches and wizards about someone would have realised he wasn't dead, even if it was a really deep death like sleep like the potion causes. I mean they had Slughorn, the one potion master who might be better even then Snape.


Well, it could be...

1) If you go back and read that part of the book, you can see Dumbledore is having an extremely hard time to keep traveling and not fall over.

2) Did Snape really cast a killing curse? Why were inaudible spells stressed so much throughout the book? Could it have been that Snape was, in his mind, secretly saying another spell, not the killing curse? And that leads me to the next point. You are right; Dumbledore flew over the ramparts. Since when did Avada Kedavra cause someone to fly over stuff. It has always been described as a quick death, not one that kills you in a burst of force and green sparks. Oh, and Rowling also says he looks "suspended in midair" for a moment, before falling "slowly" over the ramparts. Snape's secret curse?

3) And if Slughorn knew? He is part of the Order.

4) Dumbledore is described twice has looking sleepy or tired. Once before he is hit with the curse, and once when he is lying on the ground.


I'll find the link to the thread where I've already brought up these points and more if you're interested. I'm not saying Dumbledore's alive, but many things have made me re-think the ending of the book. wink



EDIT: Here's where we talk some about Harry being a Horcrux:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...mp;pagenumber=6


And here is when I really start pointing out some unusual stuff. Read this page, the next page, and then after that if you want, but definitely the first two. yes

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/...mp;pagenumber=9


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Last edited by H. S. 6 on Nov 20th, 2005 at 07:23 PM

Old Post Nov 20th, 2005 07:11 PM
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The Phantom
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Okay, I'm just going to say this. When you do a the killing curse, you have to mean it, so if Snape didn't mean it, it wouldn't have killed DD, but the fall would've.


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This years Musical: Little Shop of Horrors (sig for it hopefully coming soon)

Old Post Nov 20th, 2005 09:14 PM
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tazrian_rafi
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i would really love it if u creators of dumbledoreisnotdead.com could atleast post ur email addresses in that website, i think i found a few clues myself.

Old Post Feb 22nd, 2006 12:54 PM
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Kovacs86
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they didnt careate it. And i've put loads of ideas for the 3 RABs across different threads but here are most.

R= rubeus/ remus/ Regulus/
A= Aberforths, Alastor, Albus, Avery
B= Black/ Bones/ Bilius/ Bartemius/ Bagman/ Bellatrix

OK, if you need to know who thse people are:
Rubeus= RUBEUS Hagrid
Remus= REMUS Lupin
Regulus= REGULUS black
Aberforth= dumbledore's brother and the bartender of the hogs Head
Alastor= mad eye moody
Albus= dumbledore
Avery= a death eater (I think deceased)
Black= Sirius/ regulus etc.
Bones= susasn bones, Hogwarts student. I think her family's been mentioned somewhere...
Bilius= Ron's uncle and ron's own middle name
Bartemius= Crouch, Sr and Jr
Bagman= Ludo vbagman, gambling MoM guy in GoF
Bellatrix= Le Strange, Death eter, Sirius' killer and cousin


Any reason to these?


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2006 03:47 PM
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maham
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i think she killed albus cuz with him around ,haryy wudn't b a hero ,wud he? it's albus who alwaysd saved him . it's cuz of him that he's alive!

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2006 07:10 AM
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derek_the_derek
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dumbledore is dead. Please get over it.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2006 08:06 AM
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Becky4BJ
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I'm not into all these long, factual posts as such and seeing as I haven't read a single HP book I can't make an educated decision. But my instinc tells me they won't bring him back. You'll probably have a go at me for that but hey. I agree with Derek. Can't characters die in peace without people contemplating if they will come back? He's dead ok. D-E-A-D reading Anyways. You can be angry if he does come back, though.


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Old Post Feb 23rd, 2006 08:13 AM
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