Registered: May 2005
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You're missing the point, DS.
Darth Vader wasn't holding back. He wanted Luke as a tool to go to the Dark side. He would have killed him if he didn't turn, being why Luke jumped into a damn shaft. Vader would have just outdueled him and put a Lightsaber to his throat. Instead, he cut off his hand. Vader didn't care and he wasn't holding back.
Wait, so he went on all that time faking it with Luke in ESB? And he cut off his hand so that he could be a more useful Apprentice? Luke was contending with Vader and Vader tried to stop it using his full Dueling skills and in the end, he prevailed, cutting his Kids hand off.
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An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
Well he wasn't trying to kill Luke. That means he was holding back.
It's pretty clear Vader only said he'd kill Luke if he didn't turn to please the Emperor. Says so in Shadows of the Emperor, ieven without reading it, though, it's really clear. Not sure if it's mentioned in the AC.
Okay, but he wasn't aiming to kill. You can't try your hardest on somebody with a lightsaber unless your trying to kill.
He wasn't going all-out on Luke as he would be if he were dueling Asajj. Happy now?
Registered: May 2005
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Well he wasn't trying to kill Luke. That means he was holding back.
HAHAHAHAHA! You are PAINFULLY wrong. If he was just trying to disable him and was having troubles, he would put his all into disabling him.
I guess if I put my all out into a Fist Fight, I am trying to kill someone. (According to you.)
It's pretty clear Vader only said he'd kill Luke if he didn't turn to please the Emperor. Says so in Shadows of the Emperor, ieven without reading it, though, it's really clear. Not sure if it's mentioned in the AC.
Ah... More Books? Disregarded.
Yeah! He'd kill Luke if he didn't turn. What does this have to do with Vader putting his all out on the table again? If Vader is trying his hardest to disable Luke, then he is TRYING. Vader was having troubles, being why he grunted a few times during their fight AND because he spent like eight to ten minutes trying to disable him.
I am guessing when Luke slashed Vader on the shoulder, Vader just let it happen? Or when Luke went to look at the debri falling, Vader cut his hand off instead of holding it to his throat? Vader wasn't holding back.
Okay, but he wasn't aiming to kill. You can't try your hardest on somebody with a lightsaber unless your trying to kill.
Wrong. Read my reply to the FIRST time you said that.
He wasn't going all-out on Luke as he would be if he were dueling Asajj. Happy now?
Why not? Why wouldn't he turn Asajj? Hell, what makes you think he wasn't going all out on Luke? He was trying to disable him and he was having troubles.
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An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
Did I say he was putting everything into disabling him?
Fist fights and lightsaber duels are very, very different.
This is an EU section. Get used to EU refrences.
Not trying to kill. Tell me Sorgo, when lightsaber dueling someone is it easier when your trying to kill your opponent or when your not trying to kill your oponent.
Did I say that?
Cause he HATES Asajj.
I'm not going to go over that again. Your wrong. Admit it for once, Sorgo. Your not always right.
Registered: May 2005
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Notice your alone here.
Right back at you.
Did I say he was putting everything into disabling him?
So you think that Vader was trying to kill Luke? Or that Vader was "holding back", [sarcasm] which included the fake grunting he put on for his son and when he let his kid slash him with a Lightsaber? [/sarcasm]
Fist fights and lightsaber duels are very, very different.
The way I placed it in my Analogy? No.
This is an EU section. Get used to EU refrences.
Wrong. This is Star Wars Versus. It isn't really EU. And most Books are CRAP and aren't Canon. Especially when Authors have been known to favor a Character. LUCAS SAID IT HIMSELF! Not to mention Books aren't the only EU around.
Not trying to kill. Tell me Sorgo, when lightsaber dueling someone is it easier when your trying to kill your opponent or when your not trying to kill your oponent.
That depends on you, Not on a Laser sword.
Tell me DS19, In order for you to go all out on your opponent, does this mean you MUST kill him? Because that's the shit you tried handing to me earlier.
Did I say that?
No, but you're saying Vader was holding back when it's BULLSHIT.
Cause he HATES Asajj.
She is quite powerful, and If she was there, I don't think he'd put her to waste.
Or maybe she would put him to waste.
I'm not going to go over that again. Your wrong. Admit it for once, Sorgo. Your not always right.
Whoa.... Now f*ck that bullshit. I'm wrong? He was going all out. He wanted to disable Luke and he was having Troubles. He was grunting and his Shoulder was slashed. There is clear evidence he wasn't holding back on anything.
How about you learn this factor: YOU'RE Not always right.
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An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
The difference is that you usually are infact wrong, when there has been no evidence showing that either Darthsith or I is wrong in this instance. I don't care if you think you are high and mighty because you have admitted to being wrong. It's a double-edged sword, perhaps you just have more occasions in which you are wrong to begin with.
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He wasn't trying to kill Luke during the duel (can we agree on that)? It hurt when his shoulder got cut (hopefully we can agree on that) so he grunts.
Yes. When your fist fighting to kill your opponent you'd likely, unless your very, very strong, have to hit them when their already down to kill them. With a it's far harder to fight someone, especially if that someone's trying to kill you, if your not aiming to kill them.
Fine, no EU. Wait, that means Vader wins by default.
Oh I know. Once you supply me with sufficient proof that proves me wrong I'll admit. But the fact is, there is none. It was you guys here who reminded me it's much harder to figfht with a lightsaber when not going for the kill. This is also said in The Cestus Deception.
Sorgo, lol, he's never wrong because when he is he reverts to insults and drives his opponents away and then says he won. And, just so your aware, we're not even debating Vader vs. Asajj right now.
I have nothing against you, i'm just sick of all these debates-turned-bashing, and I'm just trying to resolve some of it.
Glentract: I usually just give up on trying to prove your wrong cause it's impossible cause you just try top find ways around it. That is why you say "You are usually infact wrong",NO, it's just causeiI have better things to do then try to debate someone who will not admit they are wrong.
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Prove me wrong then! Show that I am wrong. Do you expect me to take the word of someone who doesn't know that 1/4 of 20 is 5 as intelligent or that I would care whether or not we argue online. To prove me wrong, you are going to have to provide real, sound proof, which I have not seen you do. Right or wrong is in the eyes of the beholder. For you to accomplish anything worth sharing, you need to convince both that I am wrong, not just yourself.
__________________ http://darthglentract.tripod.com/index.html Go Jawa's!!
No, you said, "It's the certain Sith he killed that make him stronger than 75% of the people on that list. What other Jedi turned away from the force, and were stronger for it?"
Then I asked what makes you think he is in the top five and you said that he is not, but continued to proclaim that he is in the top 25% out of 20.
__________________ http://darthglentract.tripod.com/index.html Go Jawa's!!
Registered: May 2005
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Do you honestly need a Buddy to contend with me?
Wait... It looks like I have a buddy as well. Stop drifting off. Whether Glentract is on your side or not is irrelevant to me.
Vader hurled debris at Luke, making him bloody and bruised and caused him to fall out of a Window and then he cuts his hand off and this all part of making him an Apprentice? Dude, Vader was trying his hardest to kill him. If Luke survives, He becomes an Apprentice. The Sith believe that the weak DO NOT deserve to walk among the Sith. If Luke could not withstand or overpower Vader, he did not deserve to be Sith.
Who said anything about killing your opponent while fistfighting? I said "Knocking out".
Oh I know. Once you supply me with sufficient proof that proves me wrong I'll admit. But the fact is, there is none. It was you guys here who reminded me it's much harder to figfht with a lightsaber when not going for the kill. This is also said in The Cestus Deception.
Another Book reference? I am not surprised.
And no it isn't. Not for certain Fighters. Everyone Fights differently.
It goes both ways, DS19.
Where is your proof that I'm wrong, Hmm?
Fine, no EU. Wait, that means Vader wins by default.
Is it not going through properly? My suggestion is that you try your hardest to understand my last post. I dislike having to repeat myself.
Sorgo, lol, he's never wrong because when he is he reverts to insults and drives his opponents away and then says he won. And, just so your aware, we're not even debating Vader vs. Asajj right now.
^ That one made me want to take my Keyboard and just f*cking smash it against my Monitor.
Do NOT insult my Intelligence with that Bullshit you posted.
I'm sick and tired of that crap from you.
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An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .
Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
Not stepping back into this debate. I really don't care for darthsith/Glentract tagteams since I don't have the patience to fight both at the same time. And I can't say I agree with Calvin or Sorgo's methods either.
Registered: May 2005
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Vader makes two quick moves, hooking Luke's sword out of his hand and
sending it flying. Another lightning move at Luke's feet forces the
youth to jump back to protect himself from Vader's Sword.
Suddenly, Vader attacks so forcefully that Luke loses his balance and
falls back into the opening.
The
energy Luke has used to stop Vader has brought him to the point of
collapse.
A large pipe detaches and comes flying at Luke. He deflects it.
Sparking wires pull out of the wall and begin to whip at the youth.
Small tools and equipment come flying at him. Bombardment from all
sides, Luke does his best to deflect everything, but soon he is
bloodied and bruised.
Luke backs off along the narrow end of the gantry as Vader comes at
him, slashing at the young Jedi with his sword.
At that instant,
Vader's sword comes down across Luke's right forearm, cutting off his
hand and sending his sword flying.
Vader: All to easy. Perhaps you are not as strong as the Emperor thought.
Vader says this after trying to fill the Carbonite Chamber with the Carbonite WITH Luke in it.
Vader was NOT going easy on Luke. He would have killed Luke if Luke wasn't so good. The Sith believe that if you are not Strong enough, than you deserve death.
Vader was testing Luke with all of his power. If Luke could not overwhelm Vader or did not show more power than Vader, than in the eyes of a Sith, the Weak deserve DEATH and DEATH only.
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An Ancient Prophecy . . . The deity shall walk forth . . .