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NHL discussion thread
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xeous
The Next.

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote:
Originally posted by Cipher
The whole problem stems from the owners who kept giving out larger and larger contracts to players. If someone offers to double your salary, are you going to turn them down?


I didn't read through this thread because of this post. This is all the further I have to go to realize that you people are completely ignorant to the subject.

Ignorance isn't a bad thing, if you're willing to be educated.

During the last players strike, the players union demanded to be paid the same as the other "big" sports. Football, basketball, and baseball. The only problem that they didn't foresee was that they don't have a shared revenue like these sports(I know, baseball didn't until recently). They also didn't have half as large of a fanbase. Also, the average hockey arena can hold 30,000ish(some higher, some lower). What can Yankee stadium hold? 58,000? That alone should show you that the NHL can't compete with the NBA, MLB, and NFL. So, the players shouldn't expect to be paid nearly the same amount.

The logical person would take a stand with the owners and, IMO, the owners should throw down a flat average salary for players(such as $700,000). Also, they should throw out a top rate for the superstars(such as 3 million.) A Soft or Hard Cap should be thrown in, I don't care which as long as there is one...

Old Post Oct 25th, 2004 01:07 AM
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xeous
The Next.

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote:
Originally posted by Cipher
Its all the states fault?

Bettman and the league are idiots who gave the players way too much money and expanded into way too many cities. Phoenix needed an NHL team?! One team in Florida maybe, but two? Nashville?!! Another problem the league has: teams competing for high draft picks and making no real attempt to get better (Panthers, Blue Jackets, Penguins, etc.).



BAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA.


You are REALLY IGNORANT towards the subject.

How many of the Blue Jackets top prospects can you name? The Penguins? And who is ETC? .(This is, of course without looking them up)

NASHVILLE MADE IT TO THE PLAYOFFS LAST YEAR. TAMPA BAY WON THE CUP!!!!!!!! Jesus man

If it was you that said that your team was the Rangers, you should look at your own club, they're the main reason for all of this chaos.

First off, look at who owns the teams that compete year in-year out. The Avs, the Red Wings....Uhhh....That's about it, isn't it?

There are only a handful of teams that actually have a chance to win the cup year in and year out. Hell, look at who owns those teams and what their salary is and you'll understand.

The Colorado Avalanche are owned by Wal-Mart. The Penguins are owned by Mario Lemieux. Mario got the team because he was owed more than the owners could pay(if you want me to explain why they were bankrupt to you, I will). He could have folded the team or took it over. He took it over. How can MARIO FREAKING LEMIEUX compete with WAL-MART?????????? They have almost unlimited funds, he has VERY limited funds. SHARED REVENUE, MY FRIEND. SALARY CAPS....

Watch how much more competetive teams will be if you actually issue limits on what teams can spend...Max and minimum...

Old Post Oct 25th, 2004 01:14 AM
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xeous
The Next.

Gender: Male
Location: United States

And by year in-year out I ment over the past decade. Don't go spouting off "San Jose, Ottawa, and Dallas!" They're all relativly new to the Stanley Cup scene.


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2004 01:18 AM
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Cipher
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Actually, since you want to be rude, I didn't say the Rangers were my team, try reading- it'll help you in life.

The owners didn't have to offer salaries as large as they did.

I'm not sure what you meant about the Blue Jackets since you didn't explain that point very well.

As far as Wal-Mart, I'd have to check on them owning any team. The company got where it is today by being notoriously stingy.

There are too many teams in the NHL. Nashville made the play-offs; so what?
Not a lot of fans in Tennessee who'll be there if they go through a long losing streak. I also didn't say anything about Tampa Bay. I said there's no reason for two teams in Florida; the pathetic Panthers should go. They are one of the teams that doesn't seem to be trying to get better.


If you honestly think Bettman is running the league properly, maybe you're ignorant.

Old Post Oct 25th, 2004 10:55 AM
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xeous
The Next.

Gender: Male
Location: United States

Give me a friggin break, I read a page of posts and tried to summerize it in my first post. Sorry that I said you were a Rangers fan, It doesn't matter who it was, they started this giant downfall.

Yes, the owners did have to offer the large salaries because the arbiters FORCED them to do so or, the players could walk. Do you understand the rules for free agents(I, II, III, IV, V?)? If so, I won't bother to post them.

The Blue Jackets were an example. They have a number of fine prospects in their system except in goal which, I'm sure they will address this draft or the next.

Same with the Penguins except they've touched base with every position. They've got 3 blue chippers as of right now and have an excellent shot at Sydney Crosby IF the draft goes as eveyone thinks it will because of the lockout.

The Panthers have the youngest team in the NHL and are moderatly competitive. Give them 2 years and they'll be a 4 or 5 seed in the East and a legitimate contender.

You said that alot of fans won't be there if Nashville goes into a losing streak...That's kinda obvious. They're a new team, a new fanbase must be built before ANY loyalty can be established...They're building it now. They started doing so when they said they would refund any season ticket holders money if they didn't make the playoffs(2 years ago). They didn't make it and, they refunded. A free season of hockey(for those lucky fans)...I guarentee they didn't lose much money because they are one of the lowest payrolled teams in the NHL.

I don't agree with half the things in the NHL today but, to say that the owners OR Bettman either are at fault for this is just...*Mr. Repetitive here* Ignorant.

I am NOT being rude but, if you want me to start, I can. I'm just stating facts.

Please back up your argument instead of just calling me ignorant, at least I'm trying to educate you.


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Last edited by xeous on Oct 26th, 2004 at 12:26 AM

Old Post Oct 26th, 2004 12:23 AM
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Shadow_King
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Gender: Male
Location: Canada

ummm i heard thaht if nhl doesnt happen till next year their gonna scrap the nhl and their gonna start this whole new league or something i might be wrong i have no idea.

Old Post Oct 26th, 2004 02:25 AM
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Cipher
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Actually, xeous, when you call someone ignorant, that is being rude. If an owner didn't want to bankrupt their tteam, they didmn't have to give all of those guys so much money. What I was thinking of were the free agents who would get offered gigantic increases in thier previous salary. Team owners are supposed to be business people and they should be smarter than that.....

Teams that are competing for the highest draft pick are pathetic.

And if you don't like half of what goes on in the NHL, it starts with the leadership. Bettman and the others have demonstrated that they don't know how to promote the league which is part of the reason its dying. I have a problem with the leadership and that's not ignorant. The blame starts at the top......

Old Post Oct 26th, 2004 05:03 PM
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xeous
The Next.

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote:
Originally posted by Cipher
Actually, xeous, when you call someone ignorant, that is being rude. If an owner didn't want to bankrupt their tteam, they didmn't have to give all of those guys so much money. What I was thinking of were the free agents who would get offered gigantic increases in thier previous salary. Team owners are supposed to be business people and they should be smarter than that.....

Teams that are competing for the highest draft pick are pathetic.

And if you don't like half of what goes on in the NHL, it starts with the leadership. Bettman and the others have demonstrated that they don't know how to promote the league which is part of the reason its dying. I have a problem with the leadership and that's not ignorant. The blame starts at the top......


I don't understand the logic you have...

The owners were FORCED by ARBITERS to give them a raise.

Do you understand that the NHLPA is a Players Union? They demanded that the owners pay equal to the other BIG sports' players or, everyone would walk. EVERYONE. That's a little sick...The owners would literally be screwed then.

Back then, the players were in control, it was a player's strike. As of right now, no one is in control because it is the expiration of the Collective Barganing Agreement(CBA).

If Bettman doesn't throw down a few things(such as a cap, max rookie salary, etc.) I will be calling for his head, along with about every other small market fan(70ish% of the NHL)

You must be a Toronto fan or something because, they're the only ones that actually look down on a rebuilding team. Believe it or not, every team gets their turn in the barrel.

Pittsburgh is rebuilding. They're competeing for the first overall. How is that pathetic? Same with Carolina. There's a reason there are places in sports. The best get the worst picks, the worst get the best...Everyone needs a chance to succeed.

Old Post Oct 26th, 2004 08:18 PM
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xeous
The Next.

Gender: Male
Location: United States

And I'm sorry if I sounded like a dick. I didn't mean it in a bad way...My appologies.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2004 08:18 PM
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Shadow_King
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Gender: Male
Location: Canada

i know players are asking for a lot of money but i dont blame them anymore.

Old Post Oct 27th, 2004 09:43 PM
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xeous
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Location: United States

So what, you think that salaries should just keep going up and up until NO ONE can affoard tickets? At that point, the NHL will close forever...


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Old Post Oct 29th, 2004 09:04 PM
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Shadow_King
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Location: Canada

Well no. i dont think players should be like worth 30 million ok. its just they risk their health to play. so the owners should be reasonable with how much money they should pay for hockey players.

Old Post Oct 29th, 2004 09:06 PM
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Cipher
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Actually, xeous you do make a good point about the arbitration; I was thinking of free agency. That was where owners didn't have to ruin their finances to me.

As far as the first pick its pathetic to me because they should be trying to be better than that. How can a person get excited about a team throwing its season? And I realize that's how Pittsburgh got Mario, but still, its weak to me.
Rebuilding is one thing, it just seems like teams such as the Panthers aren't getting better.

I like discussing the sport with knowledgeable fans, so let's put it behind us, how about it?

Old Post Oct 31st, 2004 04:41 AM
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jinXed by JaNx
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Location: Pittsburgh

I think everyone should realize that this isnt a strike, but a lock out. Big difference there. Yeah it sucks, i'm pissed that there probably wont be a hockey season this year, but i think putting a cap on player salaries is defenantly a must to keep the sport competitive and interesting. I think the decesion was a must, but they could be handeling this differently.

when it comes to Hockey, the same three teams are always the ones to beat year after year. When a team with mediocre players are lucky enough to get some awsome rookies or trades, they always end up loosing those players the next year or two, because they cant afford to keep them. So again, defenantly a good idea, but the decesion has come about 30 years to late. This is going to hurt hockey greatly. Womans tennis is more popular in america than hockey is, and i wish that were a joke.

I also think there should be caps in baseball and football too. This would keep the games entertaining.


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Old Post Oct 31st, 2004 07:52 PM
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Shadow_King
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Gender: Male
Location: Canada

see this is why hockey should have been kept in the confines of canada. the americans have no apritiation for the sport.

Old Post Oct 31st, 2004 08:12 PM
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Cipher
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We appreciate spelling, though.....


The NHL needs revenue sharing and a salary cap like the NFL has. Unfortunately, from what I've read, the owners aren't interested in sharing. It seems they are only interested in helping themselves, not the league as a whole. Every team having the same amount of money would level the playing field (or ice) and improve competition. The league also needs strict and specific rules on equipment and interference......

Old Post Oct 31st, 2004 11:07 PM
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Shadow_King
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Gender: Male
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oh never knew that.

Old Post Oct 31st, 2004 11:31 PM
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jinXed by JaNx
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Gender: Male
Location: Pittsburgh

quote:
Originally posted by Shadow_King
see this is why hockey should have been kept in the confines of canada. the americans have no apritiation for the sport.


america appreciates and adores some hockey. The only problem is, is that it's 82 games in a season. This is about 40 games to many.There are also to many teams in the league. Unless your a nut for hockey, it is really hard to get interested in the sport, up untill the end of the season. I mean, a team can lose up to 40 games and still make the playoffs. there should be less teams and less games. I think this would strike a larger margin of interest in the sport in America. When playoff time rolls around, Hockey gets crazy ratings, like i said before, this is because the games really only matter at the end of the season. where as football, every damn game matters.


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Old Post Nov 1st, 2004 08:46 PM
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Shadow_King
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ya true.

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2004 02:29 AM
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Cipher
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I don't know about that, I mean people watch 162 games of baseball and that sucks (to me). I think the league doesn't know how to promote itself: talking up the skill of the players is fine, but its not figure skating. They need to also play up their toughness, as well as the grittiness of the game. They're worried about the opinions of people who don't care about the sport and don't watch it.

Old Post Nov 2nd, 2004 06:18 AM
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