And again how is that a reflection on there personal power? What is the point of the amulets and other items? To amplify power. Why would they need to amplify there power with trinkets if they already had these "1337" powers, Sidious didn't need it, Revan, Bane, Sion, Nihlius, Traya, Kas'im, Plagieous, Jacen didn't need it.
Why didn't they create an amulet, because they didn't know how, the art had obviously been lost, so how is that now a reflection of power?
Again, what is your point? Because they created them they must be stronger? No, there powers in the hands of more powerful force users become more powerful themselves. Thats why Nihlius could drain worlds instantly and the most we see the specter do is drain individuals, thats why there is an ancient power that the Sith created to stop and prolong death(What Annedue and Sion use) while Plageoius was able to do that, stop others from dieing and possibly create life.
Also your under this "since they created them and no one else did they're stronger" crap, when have any of the new sith(other then Banes era and Kun who isolated himself on Yavin) had the time to develop powers out of there ass, They are in a state of perpetual warfare with the Republic/ Jedi forces, where as the Ancients had the time to sit around on there asses for what like 500 years and develop powers.
I guess the logic that Sidious and Yoda are two the most powerful force users ever never occurred to you, where as Sadow and Kressh...not so much, them we have the fact that Yoda and Sidious weren't throwing around bricks at each other, a brick that if thrown hard enough could crush someones skull, while it barley manged to draw blood from Ludo and he couldn't even block it where as we see even the lames Jedi being able to block thing moving at them (see Every Jedi ever whos blocked a blaster shot)
Oh wow mountains were shaking, too bad he can't apply that power into you know combat, to bad he could apply that power into creating a force shield, to bad he couldn't apply that power into enhancing his reflexes to bring his over sized and weighted sword up to block a brick.
No you haven't "They made em first therefore they = ubah" is not a compelling argument. Your speaking of the dude like he's some historical scholar, please, this is Star Wars, and in the end he's just anther random user on a forum, and really before you go "Well Nai's theory of Ancient Sith civilization and power disagrees with you" You have to post it first and then give me any reason why I should give a shit.
As listed above
Plagious
Nihlius
Kun
And then we have again the fact that we've never seen the ancient Sith do 90% of the things they are attributed to, Show me a scan of an Ancients force storm, show me a quote talking about there force draining abilities, show me a picture of them recreating there bodies on sheer will alone, show me them using thought bombs, show me.
And that saves them from users who are described as blinding in the force? In the big scheme of thing when we have people who are created entirely of the force, called blinding, cheat death, are wounds in the force and so on and so forth they are pretty weak.
Here something for you to chew on, Kreia says Nihlius power CANNOT be learned, that its instinct, the force drain without a ritual that the ancient Sith would be attributed with would be Trayas draining of the masters. NOT Nihilus world devastating power, so little guy before you make an ass of yourself make sure you know the facts.
Star Wars: The Essential Chronology writes such about the Golden Age of the Sith:
With unlimited resources and willing human slaves, the Jedi exiles forged the Sith civilization into a new empire, bringing about a golden age of evil that was seperated from the Republic, in the wilds of the galaxy….Over millenia, the dark rulers of the Sith Empire lost their charts and hyperspace maps, so they no longer even knew how to find the Republic.
Before we proceed, let us check the definition of a "golden age".
From Dictionary.com :
the most flourishing period in the history of a nation, literature, etc.
Thus, the GAOTS does not mean that the Sith Empire was the strongest Sith Order that has ever been produced. It was a Golden Age because the Dark Jedi/Sith were able to conquer an entire race and establish a civilization with a power hiearchy and a strong society that was willing to delve into the mysteries of the Dark Side of the Force.
The fact it, they weren't even the most martial of Orders. In fact, probably the least warlike. They couldn't even find the Republic anymore, and instead lived peacefully on Korriban. Thus, while they studied the Dark Side, they never actively could use it in combat.
Under Marka Ragnos's Reign, from the Essential Chronology :
On the far side of the galaxy, the Sith Empire- cut off from the Republic by vast distances…- had grown powerful over the centuries, dabbling in its own brand of sorcery and dark Force wielding.
Let us clarify some words.
Dictionary.com, definition of dabbling:
to work at anything in an irregular or superficial manner
Definition of superficial:
insubstantial or insignificant
Thus, the Sith Empire worked on and invented many Dark Side techniques, some useful, others insignificant. We see many of these powers used, such as Naga Sadow's illusions. However, these can't be utilized in combat, since it requires deep meditation.
Naga Sadow vs. Ludo Kreesh:
The Essential Chronology says that:
At the grave site, the two strongest Sith opponents confronted each other. Naga Sadow...while his rival Ludo Kressh...
Thus, these two individuals were the strongest after Marka Ragnos. During their duel, they obviously went all out to kill their opponent. However, we don't see impressive acts of fighting from either one. All they do is bang their Sith swords and the major Force act (in fact the only one) was committed by Naga Sadow, when he dropped a brick on Kressh's head. However, the brick wasn't even thrown at a high enough velocity to crush Ludo's skull. Moreover, Kressh was able to block the killing stroke of Naga right away.
What does this mean? So while the Sith Empire invented and developed many Dark Side techniques, they never perfected the art of combat because they were the most dormant of Sith Orders.
Future generations of Sith Lords, like Exar Kun, Revan, and Bane, studied these Ancient Sith techniques, but you see them doing incredible Dark Side attacks while in combat.
So, how does this affect Ragnos? If the next two strongest Sith in the Empire fought only that good, how would this "mighty" Dark Lord have fared against the likes of extremely powerful Dark Lords like Revan or Kun? Well.....
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BlackZero30x created this a-'Maize'-ing signature! =)
This was such a ridicules point I feel I need to expound on it more, You do realise that In the Sidious/Yoda duel, they did pretty much the same feat Sadow and Ludo did, but to a MUCH higher extent, Sidious hurls pods at Yoda, these pods were moving faster, were MUCH heavier, and moving downwards. Now Yoda not dodged but he caught one in mid flight with the force, spinned it and tossed it back.
Now you want me to respect and acknowledge the power of the Ancient Sith when its supposed 2nd most powerful member can't even dodge, stop or block a BRICK that wasn't even thrown that fast. Please DS your better then this.
Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Picking up some power converters.
Yeah, DS, the whole "Ancients are Gods" is nothing but a cool idea. The feats and quotes clearly show they aren't as good as other generations, and are insignificant as far as personal power goes.
Who said Gods? I said it was the pinnacle of sith knowledge and power, and all the sith after them used THEIR knowledge and THEIR power. Nobody but SIDIOUS created their own techniques, unless you have proof(you don't). It's not an idea, it's facts based on logical deduction. There is no generation of sith that were more powerful in terms of sith knowledge and power. Revan's sith had the numbers, Kaan's sith had the achievements, and then bane's sith had the ultimate achievements. Yet ALL of them reverted back to ancient sith teachings for a reason. I realize that the majority of you are anti ancient since and pro PT, but use your heads.
Understand their true power? And I label you a fanboy? That's basically what you're doing with me and the ancient sith, hypocrite. Nobody said Ragnos is a god but you've yet to prove anyone is more powerful than him other than Sidious. He was the most powerful sith of the most powerful era. Nobody is discussing greatness, nor accomplishments, we're talking about pure power and knowledge, which the ancient sith had.
Plagiues did what NO other Sith before him has done, a power totally unique to him, he could stop himself from passing on naturally, and he could stop others from dieing, The only person who comes close to that feat in ALL of Star Wars is Cade Skywalker, and thats 200 some years LATER. Its also an high possibility that he could have created life itself.
Nihlius learned a power from the ancient Sith( the force drain) and took it to a complete different league. He took a basic drain and used it to devour life from entire worlds instantly, he became a being so powerful that he no longer saw things on a human level.
Then we have the fact that every other Sith era save for Bane were locked in a state of perpetual warfare, they didn't have the time to sit around on there lazy asses and think up random powers.
Heres an analogy, the Ancient Sith are like 4'10 basketball players trying to dunk a ball, they can't. So they invent a device that allows them to dunk the ball despite there relatively small stature, now they can dunk the ball. Now Revan and the other powerful Lords are like 6'4 basketball players they don't need the device to dunk the ball it comes naturally.
Height in my analogy represents power in the force the Ancients are short and weak in the force so they invent something to aid them in achieving their goals(fighting the Jedi/Republic killing each other), Revan and company are already powerful in the force so they don't need these items to achieve there goals.
And you are basing this off of what canon evidence? Oh that's right, Palpatine's own words. GREAT proof.
No, his force consumption WAS the technique derived from the ancient sith, the same one he learned on Malachor V. There is NO mention of a normal force drain being taken to new heights, try again.
Then we have the fact that every other Sith era save for Bane were locked in a state of perpetual warfare, they didn't have the time to sit around on there lazy asses and think up random powers.
Considering you haven't provided a single shred a proof for your illogical argument, I'll ignore the constant nonsense.
Except again, since you can't read, most techniques that the sith lords use were invented by the ancient sith. If a sith lord wants to become powerful, he turns to ancient sith teachings. So not only do you NOT have an argument, you don't make much sense.
I'm basing this off Palaptines words and the fact that a book about the man is coming out, why would Sidious continue to lie? He already admitted to Anakin after the death of Mace Windu that he didn't know the power and that only his master did, now at that point there would no longer be a need to conceal any truths from Anakin, he was firmly in the grasp of the Dark Side and despite the fact that Sidious didn't know he follows him anyways. And again then we have the one shot novel about him coming out, what would the point of it be had he not had this unique gift.
Maybe if you learned to read it would be simple to figure out. Kreia says YOU CAN'T LEARN THAT KIND OF POWER. IT CANNOT BE TAUGHT. Nihlius gained the drain power because of his status as a wound in the force and the more he feed the more powerful he became, but in the end its still a force drain and NO ONE has ever had it one that level. That is fact. Nothing on Malachor says of how to teach Nihlius's power Kreia proves this, its all instinct. Learn to read, play the game and try again.
Considering you haven't provided a single shred a proof for your illogical argument, I'll ignore the constant nonsense.
So they were not in a state of constant warfare? So the Ancients did NOT have 500+ years to sit around in relative peace with its neighbors and develop random powers? I've provided ample proof, Yoda nad Sidious duplicating Sadow and Ludo's feat 10x over, Ludo who is the 3rd strongest sith from that era failing to dodge, block, or stop ONE brick, Sadow tossing a brick so lightly that it failed to kill, knock out or even draw a large amount of blood from Ludo. Them then in turn having all kinds of trinkets to amplify their force power. Sadow having BOTH amulets and failing to unleash the kind of power Exar Kun could in life or death battle (and don't say Ludo had a defense for it because he doesn't even have defenses from bricks)
They sucked get over it, your parroting the same shit and its getting old/annoying.
What a f*cking parrot. Is that your only argument(thasts still valid)? The Sith Lord turns to them because they have an ample source of knowledge that they've collected for 500+ years (No one is denying this) while they sat in almost complete peace from anything that could truly threaten them (The Republic, The Jedi) where as every other lord is usually in or on the verge of war with the before-mentioned.
Here is the progression of your argument
"They invented powers so they must be the best" - Wrong and so the f*ck what.
"Ragnos is liek uber because he was the strongest of his crappy era" - Wrong
"OMG Star Wars historical scholar Nai said such and such" - Who gives a shit
"Since they made amulets they must be uber" - Wrong
"No ones ever made new powers or made them stronger" - Wrong
Now its back to:
"They invented powers so they must be the best" - Still f*cking wrong
You have the most ridicules argument: You claim there greater just because they invented it but you have NOTHING to compare the future Sith's powers with the Ancients.
Show me one case of a Ancient Sith Lord unleashing a force storm HALF the size of the BoD, Hell, show me ONE case of a Ancient Sith Lord even doing force lighting the most basic power every neophyte under the sun can do. Show me once where a Ancient Sith Lord has drained an entire planet. Show me one thing an Ancient Sith Lord did BY HIMSELF with no toy that compares to ANY future Sith Lord. Finally the ONE time when he see a Ancient Sith Lord other then Sadow and Ludo or Ragnos, (Ajunta Pal) he is creaming his pants over how damn powerful a padawan Revan is. He is literally BLINDED by his power.
Your attempting to make a "evidence of absence" argument to save yourself, but even that won't work, when again the most impressive thing we've seen a Ancient Sith do without a toy is toss a weak ass brick. Now if we compare that to future Sith Lords who we have proof that can do that feat 100x over, ALL logic points to the future Sith being stronger in the force and inturn there powers (that they gained from the Ancients) will be stronger and have more power then the Ancients could ever hope to achieve without the aid of some stupid toy. They sucked floppy donkey dick. Get over it.
Wow, your ignorance and stupidity is quite evident. "They suck floppy donkey dick". So glad you could back that up without a bunch of illogical jibberish. Oh wait. I'll respond when someone who can formulate an argument comes back here.
Translation: I'll pick out one insult cause I can't refute a damn thing said because my head is so far up my own ass I can't even make a coherent argument. So I'll wait till someone makes a lesser argument for me to respond to and claim I'm right.
Yawn. I'll get to your incoherent nonsense in a bit, but please continue posting, it's interesting. Oh wait. Here's a hint. (please log in to view the image)
There is no canon source about Plageuis and Lucas has said that Palpatine lied about a lot of stuff, so your point is moot.
I guess that while you were typing up a bunch of useless nonsense, you forgot the part of KOTOR II where Kreia says that the technique was learned on Malachor V, it was derived from the ancient sith, and that she also had a force drain technique.
You haven't provided ANY proof, you've proven that your logic is more sources=more power, which is as dumb as it gets. And again, I suppose Yoda sucks because he couldn't block force lightning and Sidious must suck because he couldn't block a simple force push. Your point is moot once again. And I've already explained to you that the ancients built defenses for the techniques they invented, apparently a concept that eludes you.
Boohoo you can't form a cogent argument yet you keep wasting space.
What are you a little unintelligent girl? Quit crying. Yes ample source of knowledge, the MOST knowledge, and the most QUALITY in terms of knowledge, hence the golden age. Thanks for proving my point dumbass.
Never said that anywhere, improve your reading comprehension before embarassing yourself.
Yes, crappy era. LOL. At least offer a logical argument.
Embarassing yourself again
Reading comprehension..
Besides Palpatine, it's fact unless you can prove it otherwise(you can't), so you can continue the nonsense.
Reading comprehension dumbass
As opposed to lacking reading comprehension and not forming ANY argument? Their quality of teachings and powers were better than everybody else. As a WHOLE they were the pinnacle of sith knowledge and power. I understand that you have trouble reading and understanding, but maybe you should research the ancient sith. Nobody ever said that individually, every single ancient sith is more powerful than future sith, when we know thats NOT the case..Idiot.
Hey another idiot. "If we didnt see them use it, that must mean they CANT". I can tell you have absolutely NO sources near you and are arguing out of ignorance. And I've played KOTOR, Pall was not creaming over his power, quit making shit up.
At least I can somewhat logically deduce from lack of evidence while your argument is entirely based on "Well we didnt see it so it DOESNT exist". Way to refute my argument dumbass, go back to the drawing board.
Jan 21st, 2007 06:48 PM
Nice.
