Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
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i thought nihilus only had this ability? she stated certein abilities cannot be taught and his drain is not a force drain. Its a COMPLETELY different attack. He may have demonstrated on kreia when he and sion beat her up, obviously we dont see anything but how can a force push weaken some ones connection to the force? Kreia was ready to fight, and after getting pushed nihilus could have drained her, that might have been the reason why she couldnt call to her lightsaber.
By the way if it was an ordinary drain. kreia would not have made 2 statements
1) "He has come to learn the greatest of the sith teachings"
2)"Some techniques cannot be taught"
Kreia also said that along with her ability, his was learned on Malachor V. And we see Nihilus apparently using it on Kreia but not killing her, just disarming her from the force temporarily.
It wasn't an ordinary drain, nor was Kreia's. It was a drain mixed in with the fact that Nihilus was a wound, therefore THAT couldn't be taught, but the massive drain itself was said to have derived from the ancient sith.
Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Lifting weights and lifting ass.
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But they never point out who invented the techniques, i mean the point is different sith could have made different techniques, like spear of midnight black or deadly sight, all couldnt have been made by one person
So what because Palatine lies about stuff he's automatically an invalid source regarding his OWN master and especially when we know the feat can be done (Cade Skywalker in Legacy number 1 and 6 does it as a padawan) And then we have the fact as I pointed out the you so conveniently ignored that Palpatien has NO reason to lie.
Uh no she doesn't I never heard her say that once in fact she goes through hoops to stress the fact that that kind of power CANNOT be learned, it is all instinctual, hence why the Exile had she been left uncontrolled and kept killing would have become Nihlius, did she learn it from Malachor? No.
On Dantooine, when you meet the council for the last time, Vrook goes on about how the Sith are learning(!) from what happened to the Exile at Malachor V and they are learning(!) how to exploit wounds in the force to draw power from them, THAT is why they feared the Sith so much thats why they choose to cut the Exile off from the force.
Nihlius's power CANNOT be taught, had you played the game and fully understood it (which I doubt) you'd know this.
LOL! This has been broken already, you sound like a parrot, what you don't seem to get is Sidious and Yoda were two of the most powerful force users ever at that point complete equals, There is no "simple" force push or "simple" force lightning when coming from these two. What you fail to get is in that same battle, Sidious and Yoda duplicate(!) Sadow and Ludo's feat. And Yoda manages to do what Ludo couldn't...block...dodge...and stop a moving object 10x the size of a brick. Great point!
They've built up defenses? Then let me ask you...why the hell wasn't Ludo Kreesh the 2nd most powerful Ancient Sith at the time...fail to stop, block or dodge a brick? By Darth Sexy's ingenious logic they've spent all this time developing defenses for the most mundane, random feats and yet they can't block, dodge or stop the most rudimentary powers. Younglings deflecting blaster bolts perform better then them.
Now we resort to insulting each other, sign number 1 that this debate is over. Did anyone deny they had all this knowledge? No. What I'm saying is that they can't apply it like some other more powerful force user can.
"You cannot call his era weak, because the most powerful ancient sith designed techniques"
I'd say the same to you.
I guess you haven't read Nai's theory on the ancient sith,
"Creating amulets to channel and amplify force energy obviously takes some skill because we don't see anyone after them doing it, because they DONT have the knowledge. "
Look above.
"You cannot call his era weak, because the most powerful ancient sith designed techniques"
Prove it. You simply stating things, I asked before and I'll ask again show me one thing an ancient Sith Lord has done with out a Sith Toy.
When did I ever address them as individuals? Aside from there two most powerful members Sadow and Kressh? In every phrase when I'm not talking about the before mentioned I address them as "The Ancients" And your saying I lack reading comprehension....please.
A huh, I can tell you have no sources to prove me wrong so your resorting to insults because your frustrated. Aren't you supposed to be a senior in college, does Star Wars really mean that much to your little life? That you get mad when you can't prove someone wrong about your "favorite group". Grow up, your appearing pathetic.
As for Ajunta Pal:
"The force is so strong in you human"
"You...the force is with you. So strong, so bright."
"So much power... it is blinding"
"you who bristle with the force"
"I... see your power human jedi. I see your power, your pride"
You were saying...
I never said they couldn't do it, obviously they can since the powers are derived from them, however what I did say was, Show me a picture, scan, or quote that allows me to compare and gauge these "1337" powers you want me to believe they have. Prove to me that they could unleash a force storm the size of the BoD's, prove to me they could do what Revan, Exar, Kreia ect ect could do. The Burden of Proof is on you, your making claims "The Ancients power > New Siths" without any evidence accept for the fact that they created them. Sorry guy that shits not gonna fly with me.
Me on the other hand can prove that there powers are nowhere near the magnitude of the new Siths based on the fact that their two Strongest members (Sadow and Ludo) in a life or death duel, the most impressive thing the did with the force was toss a brick, a brick that failed to maim, kill, or even draw sufficient blood from Ludo. A brick that Ludo failed to dodge, block, or stop. One small brick, that the only feat we see them do without a toy. Logic tells us that without there toys they are weak in the force, since their two most powerful blew so much.
Then we have the fact that they even create these toys to begin with, had they been such gods in the force that you so desperately want us to believe, they wouldn't need these to combat there foes like every other Sith past them does.
Had I said that you'd be right, but I didn't and your wrong. I did not insult you so I'd expect the same courtesy back, unless of course you take me insulting your favorite character as a personal blow which in itself is truly sad. Anyways your starting to bore me, at least people like Nebaris can drop there agreement when they know they're wrong, you on the other hand don't refute anything an attempt to insult your way out of this by degrading to the topic into a flame war and stupid owned pictures. Really guy stick to cheer leading me and advents posts, debating on your own isn't your strong suite.
Wow, do you understand the concept of canon? I guess not. In fact Palpatine DID have a reason to lie, to get Anakin to come over to the dark side, but I guess that's yet another concept that eludes you.
Play KOTOR and stop embarassing yourself. She learned the force drain and Nihilus learned it but mastered it to an extreme because he was a wound in teh force.
Really? Weird, I guess you missed the entire DE series where Palpatine as a spirit drains the entire world of Byss. So apparently that technique CAN be taught. But OMG I guess something that couldnt' be taught 4,000 BBY STILL can't be taught right? Dumbass. And again, Nihilus was a WOUND, therefore him and his technique is a FLUKE.
Hey another idiot who thinks "because I can type, I have made a valid argument". I guess you fail to understand the concept that just because guy X lets a brick hit him or Guy Y lets him get force pushed, doesn't mean they suck. And yes, a force push is a force push, unless you want to debate the levels. And i'm glad Yoda could stop a pod, yet he couldn't stop the force lightning in the beginning. Great point! Jackass. Someone needs to teach you how to debate.
This is seriously part of your argument? Should I go back to why the most powerful sith lord ever couldn't stop a force push? Stop embarassing yourself.
And you STILL have no evidence that these techniques were mastered to an extent greater than the ancients, and that anyone OTHER than Sidious created their own techniques, and DIDNT revert back to the ancients.
Uh ok?
I can ask lightsnake to give me NUMEROUS sources for all of the ancient sith techniques created, so sources>you. Of course your ONLY source is probably GAOTS, since you argue out of ignorance.
Why would I prove you wrong when you haven't made an argument? What does your lack of debating skills have to do with Star Wars being a part of my life? Suddenly you're a psychologist? Thanks for the irrelevant misdirection doctor. Another sign of poor debating skills. And I don't think anyone is appearing more pathetic than you right now, but denial runs wild on this forum.
And this puts Revan above Guy X, Y, Z how? LOL
What have the new sith done in terms of force abilities? Oh, the Force Storm that they learned from Bane, who learned it from Revan, who learned it from the ancients? You were saying? And just because shit doesn't fly with you doesn't make it less factual.
What new sith? Kun's elite stasis field called a "sith" spell which he more than likely learned from Sadow's notes? What the hell have you proved or disproved? Nothing. Neither.
AHAH now you're comparing yourself to Advent? What are you Nebaris? Yet another idiot who thinks because he can type inside a text field, that he can automatically debate? You have not proven that you are even at the very least, a competent and capable debator, so I suggest you stop embarassing yourself and let the real debators on this forum add their rebuttals, because you're wasting text space with your stupidity, "Guy".
Wow do you understand the fact that Anakin was already firmly in the grasp of the dark side? Sidious blatantly says "I don't know how to do it...so ahh about killing those kids in the temple...you gonna do it" and what does Anakin basically say "Sure!" At that point there was no need to lie about Plageiuos thats what you don't get.
Logic points
A. Sidious not lying as he would have no point to
B. There being a book coming out about him, there would be no need if there was no special unique gift behind him
C. The ability has been shown as possible by Sidious and Cade Skywalker
Then we have Exar Kun:
"No, I don't think Sadow could have used it to the extent Kun had but that was the only instance."
Oh and do tell how Freedon Nadd murdered Naga Sadow if he is such a powerful being and that all his 1337 techniques really matter.
Nihilus learned it but mastered it to an extreme because he was a wound in teh force.(!)
The POINT. Glad you could finally see it, the question was
"Name one Sith Lord who has taken Ancient Powers to a more powerful level"
Because of his status as wound in the force it allowed the power to be taken to a different level then any other Ancient Sith could have, the most we see from an Ancient Sith drain is (if were assuming Kreias is the same power) is the ability to kill a few force users on a small scale, that is nothing compared to Nihlius, and his power is unique to him.
It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other Force sensitives. They are symptomatic of the wound in the Force." - Vrook
And there you have it teachings of the new sith.
Glad you could answer your own questions though.
Actually he does this as of 19BBY, end of ROTS, and Palpatine still doesn't do Nihlius drain, he does a variation but not his drain? No. And even so Nihlius had a holocron so Palpatine likely obtained it since Krayt could.
LOL! "well since I've been proved wrong I'm gonna call it a fluke!"
Oh so Ludo LET Sadow hit him now? Please tell me now why would he do that? Considering they're trying to kill each other and all. You still can't compensate for the fact that, Sadow who is supposedly a god couldn't throw a brick fast enough to maim, kill or even really hurt Ludo who in turn couldn't block dodge or stop it.
So a force push from Yoda and a force push from a youngling are the same things
And then he proceeds to block and stuff it 2 minutes later. Great point!
A force push from his complete equal in the force, a force push from "the most devastating foe the darkness has even known" So please go back to it and prove me wrong.
And you have no evidence that they were STRONGER then the new Siths or did you forget that? I've already posted why the New Siths are better, I'm done repeating myself.
You just told on yourself smart guy, "Well Lightsnake can fight my battles for and give me info" And did I ever say the ancients didn't create these powers. Thats not the issue, the issue is whether they are stronger then the New Sith's powers.
denial runs wild on this forum.
So true
Great, I'm glad that you don't even remember what you type.
"And I've played KOTOR, Pall was not creaming over his power, quit making shit up."
And you can prove that the ancients can produce one larger? A better one? A stronger one? Because last time I checked the power of force abilities drew on you know the users force connection. Now as I said the Burden of Proof is on you to prove that they can produce more grandiose feats then the New Sith. No matter how much you ignore it and cover it up with insults and "I don't have toos" You make a claim you have to back it up PERIOD.
More then likely? Prove it, prove that Sadow new this statsis field. SInce when does Exar Kun = the entire 4000 years of new sith?
I'm not gonna waste my time and post every single new Sith feat because theres no need to Darth Bane force crushing Qurdis is more impressive then anything we've ever seen the Ancient Sith do without a toy.
No, I said stop cheer leading mine and her posts, and even so I'm no sycophant(You) who seems to view people superior to themselves because of star wars.
A huh and thats why you cheer lead and hang of the tip of my nuts when I post in any topic that agrees with you.
Apparently your mental timeline is a little off so let me refresh your memory. Sidious tells him about Plageuis when Anakin was still mentally sane. He started wondering about the dark side after Sidious told him that. If your argument is based on your inability to follow a timeline, then you've already lost.
A. Wrong
B. Still doesn't make what he says canon, unless you're GL and can tell us what he lied about.
C. Sidious did not have this ability.
Uh very simple. Nadd was probably as powerful as Kun was, maybe even more, if he could murder Kun and have no trouble with the Massassi warriors that Kun had trouble fighting against.
I guess you STILL can't understand that Kreia says Nihilus' SPECIFIC POWER, aka his masterful force drain, was derived from the ancient sith.
You mean Traya and Nihilus and Sion, who all lasted for a whole 2-3 years after waging war on the Jedi? Wow, ph34r the Sith.
Sidious did what Nihilus did, but he did it as a spirit, and he did the exact same thing Nihilus did. He didn't "eat" the force because he wasn't a wound, but the effects were the same.
"Oh well since I'm computer literate and can type, I MUST be good at debating!!"
Since when did I call Sadow a god? Sadow was a SITH ALCHEMIST, his strengths in the force didn't deal with direct combat, so try again.
A force push is a force push. Sadow hitting Kressh with the brick is the same thing as Sidious getting force pushed..
Yes, because I was demonstrating where a powerful force user got knocked off guard by a force attack, great rebuttal!!
It's a force push dumbass. There's no levels like there are with force lightning or whatever.
Why do you keep lying to yourself and thinking you've actually added a logical argument when all you've done is waste space with nonsense? I DO have evidence that the ancients were stronger, because these 3 new sith learned from THEM, and lasted a whopping 2-3 years..Way to prove your point..
Yes, saying "lighsnake has the sources" is the same thing as saying "lightsnake can fight my battles". Way to continuously humiliate yourself.
I'm glad you don't remember what you typed either, claiming Ajunta Pall made Revan look like a God compared to the ancients, but way to go
Yes a user's connection to the force. The sith who were powerful magicians+powerful exiled Jedi=strong connection. Figure that one out.
The word is "knew", and all Kun had was Sadow's teachings. It's called logical deduction, I suggest you learn it and apply it instead of sounding like a jackass.
Of course not, because you don't have an argument to begin with.
Boo hoo you can't debate, so stop trying. This has been by far the easiest debate I've ever been involved in. I suggest you let the more experienced and more logical guys(and girls) step in and argue your point(or at least attempt to because nobody has a clue to what your point is).
Sadow and Kressh were said to be the Sith Empire's next two strongest Sith. And yet, their swordwork wasn't even that good, and Naga's Force work was pretty horrid considering how he didn't drop the brick hard enough (and that's not that hard to do) to break Ludo's HUMANOID skull.
I give you kudos on this pwnage. BTW, do you consider me a more experienced and logical guy?
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BlackZero30x created this a-'Maize'-ing signature! =)
You have no idea of their sword skills. How is Sadow's force work horrid? What would you have him do? That's like saying Sidious was shit because he couldn't instakill Yoda or use one of his "Sidious knows everything" techniques. That's not even a logical argument, that's anti ancient sith nonsense.
I don't know, we're all more logical for the characters we love the best, and very illogical for characters we hate.. With the exception of some people like this idiot I'm dealing with XX whatever..
Please, Naga Sadow dropped a supposedly "fast thrown " brick at Kressh's skull. Ludo Kressh is a humanoid and possess most of human anatomy, including not armor-like skull . It will hurt. So Ludo fell down, and Naga was unable to capitalize by thrusting his Sith Sword right into Kressh's chest. So it can either mean:
1) The brick wasn't thrown fast enough to properly wound Kressh so that he'll be in enough pain to not parry Naga's killing strike.
OR
2) Naga's not quick enough with his Sith Sword to even take advantage of a sitting duck opponent. Unless of course, # 1 is correct.
LOL, I guess by that logic, I am spewing illogical shit. Naa, I don't really mind the Ancient Sith. However, when I first joined in December 05 and saw all this Ancient Sith fanboyism, I didn't like it all. Nice insult! I must commend you for that.
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BlackZero30x created this a-'Maize'-ing signature! =)
Or the ancient sith have incredible strength(as they were described).
I'm not debating their sword skills. They can be sword Gods or they can suck, but we don't have enough information to infer anything.
No I am saying that when you're a fan of a character you will argue intensely for that character. When you DISLIKE a character you will argue intensely against that character. On both occasions you are likely to be very logical and very illogical because of your hatred/love for the character.
And FYI I also dislike the Ancient sith fanboyism I read about from the "Antedeluvians". I can at least put the obvious Luke and Sidious above them all.
Whatever, I'm done wasting my time with you, I will not be brought into a flame war and bother with useless insults and your impeccable "I don't have to provide proof cause ahh I said so!" logic. And yes, I'm reporting you, I attempted a civil debate with you but you refused it, and again for the sheer number of insults you'll be gone in a bit, then you'll have all the time in the world to sit around and look at pictures of Korean kids. Nice job!
That's because your arguments(if you can call them that) were thoroughly pwned. Thank you, come again! And I could report you for your repeated insults(which outnumbered mine by a good margin), but i'm not a little ***** who can't stand up for myself. Go ahead though.
Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere in the ancient Sith Empir
Guys, first off, my apprentice isn't just blowing smoke out his rear. He's right in what he's saying.
But just to agree with this guy up here, Ragnos wasn't just powerful because of his knowledge of Dark side technique. He was half-Sith himself and probally had more Midi-chlorians than any other Force-Sensitive that ever lived, next to Anakin that is.
He probally has a larger grasp of the Force than Sidious and possibly Yoda and Sidious combined.
That alone would prove to be a devastating factor, when you consider that Ragnos could just launch a Destruction blast at Sidious, so powerful he can't even block it.
But I mean, that's just one example and it is generalising.
But I think you can use your imagination on this concept.
But seriously, think about it, JA Luke, who is older and therefore at least a bit more powerful than DE Luke (who was suspposed to be near DE Sid's power) admitted that it he himself coulden't be able to fight Ragnos without the entire academy backing him up.
Ragnos is the golden fleece of the Sith race.
If post-DE Luke was afraid of him, and Ragnos was feared by every other heavy-hitter Dark Lord in his time, it must have been for a good reason.
I say Ragnos COULD win.
He'd probally Force Crush the hell outta Yoda or something else and kill him, and then it'd be him and Sidious.
DS, you know you have reported twice already, if not more. You really need to stop making enemies with members of the Forum.
And DS, you have been a little "flamy" you know. I think you are a great debator and I hate to see you banned, but I think you need to tone yourself down.
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BlackZero30x created this a-'Maize'-ing signature! =)
I don't care if I've been reported. I say what I have to say and I respond to flames accordingly. I just have the testicular fortitude not to take a debate to a button, but hey everyone is different.
Jan 22nd, 2007 03:09 PM
BTW, do you consider me a more experienced and logical guy?
