Again... he isn't actually pure carbon... if he was he wouldn't be alive... just like the Thing isn't actually made of rock (and she can't control him either)
Once again... a scan of her doing something when under no external pressure (ie - nobody's trying to kill her in that scan.... or any other scan you've shown where you claim she can do complicated stuff without concentrating)
IM absorbs heat for energy
Hermod moves too fast for her to target.... plus his speed means the flames/heat wouldn't effect him much (if at all) like passing your hand through a candle flame quickly.... times 100,000
TS's mace allows him to go through atmospheric reentry with no problem..... plus he can just absorb all her energy like Thor did to the presence:
By attacking Thunderstrike with her own energy she effectively takes herself out of the fight!
Yup... come up at mach speeds and slam into the shields.... knocking yourself the hell out!
Only in respect to your team's suicidal tendencies:
One of them is slamming into shields at mach speeds killing themselves
Another is using energy attacks on Thunderstrike and geting themselves completely drained
DB-P is flying at speeds he can't handle and turning himself into a smear on the wall
And your Wendigos will probably eat each other
So maybe the mace goes from being thrown at light-speed to being thrown at 90% of light-speed.... it's still unavoidable and more than any of your team can handle
Insulative shielding, armour durability and energy shielding prevent all of those from being possibilities
Hermod (no N in the name) is invisible to your team.... they'll never se him to atack him with anything
No he isn't (i already explained why)
And just for further reference.... Human beings are carbon based life forms as well.... show me a scan of her turning a person into lava
Charcoal is no more "earth" than you are!
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Do you even KMC???
Last edited by Scoobless on Mar 31st, 2006 at 03:54 PM
From his own bio: Body Transformation-Self: Charcoal has a body composed of carbon. He can take on any form of carbon, from soft, heavy coal to pure diamond. (*coal and diamonds are both rocks and her power over "earth" would naturally include them and therefore him as well.) Besides he couldn't transform into "pure" diamond unless his body was made of only carbon.
It would seem to me that she could control him just as easily as she could control someone made of air or water
thats nice....does he absorb it when its in his own suit?
is there oxygen in his suit? yes.
can Crystal ignite it? yes?
his countermeasures are meaningless -- since you say he has made countermeausures for all avengers show an ability to be immune to thor's magic in his regualr armor, or any other avengers powers. even current sw -- is he immune to her? no? didnt think so
tony should fall immediately and be a burnt crisp
very nice....if the field werent in place right before the match. Powerhouses and Crystals combined take care of your weakest link.
hitting it with combined Zero G punches is gonna weaken it and break it.
but then again, your already an empty husk of a suit right?
yadda, yadda, yadda..... people are carbon as well.... show her turning a person inside out (or whatever) then i'll consider it
He clearly isn't "pure" carbon or he wouldn't be able to move... he's an organic version of carbon... same way the Thing is organic rock
A quick water dousing is nowhere near the level of precision needed for what you're suggesting here
Animating clay from a safe distance while under no attack to her person... irrelevant... next
The guy seemed pretty surprised.... she must have been at it for a while before managing it.... plus she wasn't under attack (or at least your scan doesn't show any attack).... once again... irrelevant
Firing at a target from a safe distance while, again, in no immediate physical danger herself..... you still haven't shown anything to support the "ignite oxygen in a fast moving heavily shielded target while under heavy fire" argument
Some sort of flame attack? flame doesn't move very fast and throwing up a shield around herself is nowhere near as complicated as what you're suggesting she can do.... in fact shielding herself is basic self preservation..... it's like throwing your arms up in front of your face
Is that what you wanted to show? .... various scans and not a single one that has any relevance to your argument?
Life support regulates the suits internal temperature... not that it matters here as you can't through the various levels of shielding while he's moving and you're under constant fire
Nothing offensive is in place right before the match... that's been a rule of all tourneys, only defensive shields and such can be erected during prep..... by the time you react, Hermod's less than a blur and has quite possibly KOd any single member of your team... such as the defenceless DB-P
Not bloody likely, if the kid attacks at mach speed he's gonna break a few of his bones on the shield.... if he's conscious (which he probably wont be) and hanging around after the first attack either IM blasts him dead or Thunderstrike smites him with his mighty uru mace
lol.... Cap had about twenty seconds to figure out how to stop that attack cos Thor went into lecture mode and let everyone know what he was gonna do before he did it.... no warnings here.... and no Cap to save you
Actually the shielding prevents your psionic signal from penetrating the suit in the first place
Oh is that all?..... IM's inertial dampeners will take care of any vibrational attacks automatically...the same way it stops bullets ricocheting off his armour and harming civilians
Field isn't up pre-match.... and Hermod would undoubtedly react faster than any other person in this fight.... by the time your field is going up he's already amongst you causing serious damage
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But none of this really matters once your Duplicate Boy Prime splatters himself all over JP's uru walls when he starts flying at mach speeds
At least he'll probably win the comedic tourney death award (and if one of the dupe Wendigos eats the Madrox Prime Wendigo you'll get first and second place)
hey its comic science. He IS pure carbon, pure and simple, his bio states it and he can become PURE diamond. Thats not possible unless he was pure cabon. Pure carbon is much more different than carbon based things.
plus manipulating her own molecules? pffffffffft your smarter than that...
having to move it, while fighting......ya that takes massive control that is easy for her
He was suprised she was able to do it, but a while? please.....no but she was under a time limit....
Your shielded argument isnt working. IW>IM in sheilds, physically and psionically. Period. Crysal was able to get into her shield. She will be able to do it here.
your "heavy fire" can be dealt with by Powerhouse
Constant fire? All your fire can be absorbed by Powerhouse. You have nothing in terms of offense to handle him and Crystal. Remember all my attacks are multiplied by the fact that I have 14 characters....and 7 of them can control gravity, 3 can control powerbomb, have mach speeds, and can absorb energy, and 4 can control all the elements
Its not offensive. Its a defensive sheild, because it prevents you from getting to me. Try again.
It seems that she cannot only summon water from the sky but use highly pressurized air to propel the water as an offensive weapon. Kind of like her own massive water cannon that she can control http://www.tenix.com/ImageLibrary/Page_467_1.jpg
(Scarlet Witch even tell her to let them down easily suggesting that she is knocking them into the air and keeping them up there at will). Just like she should be able to combine her control over fire and air to create a flamethrower effect.
sorta looks like enough water and air control to do that maelstorm from before right scoobs?
its a fight, I dont need warnings, when a guys slow moving arm is being "flung" at me and while he has vertigo.
no it doesnt. Hes never made countermeausures for Crytsal. and again IW>IM. Its just a fact of life and comics in terms of sheilding
oh but it is. Sheilds have always been allowed. try again.
Either show her turning the Thing inside out or let it go... the only one who can control Charcoal is Charcoal
She seemed to think it was difficult enough....... and it's not like it moving and fighting were two different feats...they are one thing - that she found difficult - while in no immediate physical danger
I can juggle pretty well.... but if someone started shooting at me my concentration would definitely be affected and i'd drop the balls
You've shown nothing (in this or any other post) to suggest Crystal can perform complex tasks while attempting to defend herself
Physically, yes
Psionically, no.... IM's shielding deters psionic energy.... Mentallo once multiplied his power and entered the minds of almost every being on earth... Stark's defences stopped him from getting into his head.... same thing here
IW's shields haven't been designed for specific purposes like Stark's.... your comparisons are flawed at best
Until DB-P takes to the air and kills himself and five others in a single move..... and the Wendigos start eating each other
If it adversely effects my characters just by being there then it's offensive
Not even remotely close... you're comparing 1 water jet to an entire ocean
He wont be slowed at all at the start of the fight ... especially from a mile away.... and he definitely wont have vertigo (another precision move you can't perform)
yup... have a raving lunatic monologue for five minutes in front of her and she eventually responds "instinctively"
most people's instincts don't wait for the end of a maniacal rant
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However you cut it Duplicate Boy Prime cannot survive my attacks or his own ill advised flight plans
it's Crystal and Powerhouse, alone, against my full team..... and they'll probably have to fight a pack of pissed of Wendigos as well
laughable at best. The thing is NOT rock. He is not the same as someone whos powers is to be and form ALL things types of CARBON. Sorry but charcoal is under MY control
getting into his head and igniting the oxygen reserves he has are two comepletey different things. Stark has no defense for her.
DB is doing nothing but dodging and has a powerhouse with him. The Wendigos are being thrown at you like wendigo darts. Try stopping 6 class 75 self healers.
only once you get in my field. My field will however be up. Hermod will run, and then suddenly be propelled down and away by my varouis gravity fields.
thats a big ass water jet.....moving and knocking all those people out....
thunderstrike will....
they didnt know she was about to blow herself up.....
sheilded by a powerhouse and doing nothing more than dodging, your gonna be too busy dying to worry about him
plus my 5 dupelicates and my wendigo darts. You failed. Try again.
Nope, Thing isn't actually rock and Charcoal isn't actually Carbon (hence the ability to move and think)
At the most Crystal might be able to fight for control.... but Charcoal is much better at controlling himself than she would be... she would have to use her full concentration focused on him the whole battle to attempt control.... which would mean she isn't helping the rest of her team in any way
-sigh-
You're still missing the point.... telepathic energy is psionic energy ... the same type as Crystal uses to control things mentally .... his armour is shielded from psionic energy .... it wouldn't stop Xavier for long, but it would give him a moments pause.... lower level psionics would have more trouble
Dodging himself at high speed into a wall and an early grave.... the boy can't handle flight ring speeds in such a small room
That ring (and anything else metallic that you're carrying) are mine.
(FYI .... magnetism doesn't effect uru)
Or a simple EMP can short it out while DBP is trying to commit suicide by flying into Batman's corpse
EMPs also screw up psionic powers.... Crystal's powers will be uncontrollable for a few minutes
Yeah, the crazy ranting, threats and glowing woman didn't give it away at all...... maybe Crystal's just a moron
I'm not worried about him in the slightest... either I kill him or he kills himself
R.I.P. DBP .....
Your DB dupes all vanish the second DBP's unconscious and Wendigos are the dumbest, slowest, least maneuverable things in the fight (except maybe Crystal)
sorry, but no. What you are saying is that pure elements cant exist as human comic characters? Sooooo what about iceman who happens to be PURE ice? or when he is water vapor, and exists as water?? He is purely those elements and guess what? he exists!! he can move and think and everything!!!
and what about Hydroman who turns to pure water?
or even sandman?
please, Charcoals bio states PURE carbon. He can do things that only a creature composed to pure carbon can do. End of story.
and Crystal can control him pure and simple. What your saying is something like Magneto coudnt control Colosus when we all know he can.
but thats besides the point. Ironman has never created anything to counter Crystal. Psionics use so many different energy signatures and frequencies that and Crystals seems to be different from almost everyone (in being able to get through Sues shield) Ironman will not have a defense against her.
the boy was given a flight ring A LONG time ago....he knows how to use it
not if there is a powerhouse there with him
fyi, I know....I have magnetism too....
psionic MUTANTS powers. Crystals powers were given through the midst. Do you have a scan showing her being effected by an EMP?
not with my characters kicking you ass
cept he is still there, my crystal has greater reaction time than Charcoal and Ironman being an Inhuman and all. Wendigos are being thrown like a class 75 dart. Please try to understand that while they are eating your heart.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
when does this fight end? any thoughts yet, judges/voters? i like to know how others are seeing things in case i've been missing something.
for me right now it seems a numbers thing (similar to bw's other fight) -- 3 crystals can do a LOT. i really hate the dupes (sorry bw) -- it seems to give too much of an advantage in any fight, but numbers mean a lot when contestants are fairly evenly matched . . .
That the main Duplicate Boy is incredibly easy to take out in this fight when he has nowhere to hide and when he's KOd the rest of the duplicates vanish
Iceman exists as a non-corporeal consciousness that inhabits water molecules and controls them
Hydroman does not turn into pure water, it's only a water-like substance
Sandman also does not turn into pure sand
And Charcoal does not turn into pure carbon
Completely different actually
Colossus's form is comprised of ferrous materials .... meaning they are affected by magnetism.... he isn't pure steel, he's an organic variance on steel
Perhaps not specifically designed against her, but psionics are psionics... why would a super genius protect against only a single type when designing psionic defences? he wouldn't... he'd cover as many bases as possible
Doesn't matter though.... nothing you've shown even remotely suggests she'd be capable of affecting the interior of his armour while in a battle situation... she couldn't do it even if he wasn't protected
Why would he? he's always had access to superhuman flight powers.... there's no reason to believe he's ever relied on the Legion ring for flight....
Now that he's forced to use it without any superhuman reaction abilities he wont be able to fly safely in such a confined area...
At top speed he'd be crossing the entire room in less than one second = dead meat waiting to happen
At a low speed like Mach one he'd be crossing the room in four seconds.... meaning he's slow enough to be an easy target but fast enough that he still can't stop himself from ramming face first into an indestructible wall
Your sole strength in this tourney is taken away ridiculously easily in this setting... the rest of your team just can't cut it alone
An extremely inexperienced Duplicate Powerhouse with only a few hours practice controlling his abilities = totally worthless bodyguard
Cool...then your magnetic fields will screw up the Legion flight rings for me .... tx
So what? how a person gained their powers is irrelevant.... she's a psionic = she'll be affected the same way by EMPs as other psionics are
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Wendigos are virtually mindless.... as soon as you enter the battle arena they'll be more likely to attack your team than anyone else due to proximity as CIS is on in these games
All your duplicates are still extremely inexperienced, Crystal took a lifetime to gain her current level of control over her powers.... i imagine Powerhouse took a good few years as well.... they'll be as useless as a learner driver on their second lesson
Then when DBP is taken out by the Wendigos, your magnetic fields, my magnetic fields, his own flying or my blasting, all those useless dupes vanish
The guy is in a world of trouble in this match..... everywhere he turns there's a new factor waiting to kill him ....especially as he has zero experience using a flight ring.... or of flight of any kind (as stolen power memories were all stripped before the tourney started)
To be honest, once B-Dub was able to go into each fight with 14-16 characters, he was pretty much given this tournament. The numbers and firepower his team presents is just too much (though I had him beat 2 rounds ago in the desert but people couldn't see past his numbers advantage to my speed, agility, and skill advantage...).
In this fight the only real threats to B-Dub's team are Ironman and Thunderstrike because they are the only characters with high end ranged attacks, but they can be trumped by B-Dubs collective 6 (4 Crystals and 2 Powerhouses) energy and elemental manipulators.
Having six Wendigos for canon fodder really helps too, especially given the battlefield.
P.S..... all the dupes are so inexperienced that their attempts to use Gravity or other wide area complicated powers will most likely hinder their own team
Difference here is that no one on your team knows anything about Duplicate Boy, and would have no reason to single him out, where as I had KK who is familiar with him, so I had the prerequisite knowledge that would prompt downing him.
That's why I vote for B-Dub.
When your 4 see B-Dub's 14 they'd have no way of discerning who the weak link is because none of them are DC characters, and when combat begins, finding one Dupe Boy Prime out of the 14 enemies on the field is asking a bit much with everything that is going to be transpiring.
Unless you're going to devote a character to following DB Prime and his Powerhouse Dupe bodyguard around while the rest of your team faces a 12:3 battle. And even then that's not really the best of tactics either.
I'm still open to being convinced otherwise. It's still Saturday.
edit
Oh, and for your PS, that was dealt with 2 rounds ago. Dizzle decreed that characters carry battle experience from round to round in the tournament.
The fact that one single character is running from the battle with a bodyguard is a perfect reason for taking him down..... if the other team is going to so much trouble to protect him he makes himself a primary target
The point is i wouldn't have to follow him around... he can't go fast within such an enclosed environment without killing himself... trust me... i did all the maths on this....
One single repulsor blast is all it takes to kill him and cut BW's team in half
That's not the point i'm making
I know they carry experience from round to round... but it's still only a couple of hours experience total
Blair already showed scans from years ago showing Crystal dealing with some fire guy... then saying that she has much more control of her powers these days than she did years ago
It took her an entire lifetime to get to her current level of control.... no way in hell is a duplicate going to get to any competent level of power usage after only two or three hours practice
It'd be like teaching a 10 year old how to Fly a jet fighter...they'll learn to switch the engine on... and maybe even learn where the weapon controls are.... but put them up in the air after a couple of hours and they'll crash and burn
your gonna debate iceman facts with me?? He can exist as a non corporeal form when he is in his mist and water forms. He however is naturally ICE. Out of all my comparisons he is most like Charcoal. He is ICE and can form into the other forms of ICE and can create ice. No two ways about it. Just like Charcoal is carbon, can create more carbon, and can exist as different forms of carbon. Kinda similar dont you think?
reaching.....anyone?? please, hes water. Give me one bio or scan that proves hes not.
look above....replace water with sand.
are you going against his own bio that YOU provided and the scans you have shown? wasnt there one where he turned to diamond?
Ithought he was made of a certain metal that slips my mind at the moment. I think it starts with a C......its known as the toughest metal on the planet....er why cant I remember!
doesnt matter the comparision is the same. Magneto controls METAL. Crystal controls EARTH. Both are respectivally plaything in their hands...
working her own molecules while in a battle situtaion so she wouldng get electricuted? how about placing so many differnt types of energy and forming them just right to pull of an energy flare? and taking ALL the polution from a thirty mile raduis? please, he has oxygen. In all actuallity this scan proves it
how, do you ask? It happened instantly, she took all the pollution from a thirty mile raduis and wasnt even lookin at what she was doing. Air moves, there are thousands of people in that air. To be able to pull all the dirty molecules takes precision. She can just "feel" the oxygen in his suit and blow it up. Ironman goes down hard. Wicked hard
same reason Monel or Ultra Boy had theres. Just in case. He has flown with it before.
hes not flying at you. Hes dodging (and he doesnt have to do much as powerhouse is absorbing and returning fire.)
please one Crystal is a tough job for Ironman. 4 of them? pffffft theres no way your gonna get to DBPrime
hours of practice, plus battle expercience? please it doesnt take much work to absorb the energy your giving me. Thank you for that by the way
only Marvel Mutants psionics are effected. The basics is that they are connected to the electromagnetic field and their powers run through that. How are we supposed to know that Crystal works the same way? The midst could have connected her to the elements much differently. Thats possibly the reason she can get past sue's shields and Jean couldnt.....
are you totally ignoring the repeated statements that they are being FLUNG at you? Total class 75 beasts are on you.
your blasting is taken care of by my powerhouses. Get it through your head. Cystal can control the energy as well. None of your attacks are getting though.
hes used a flight ring before, when he was unable to use his powers. He also has training with Powerhouses flight, so it wont be too hard to adapt. My powerhouses flinging Wendigos, gravity fields in place, and power bombs in your face. My crystals are combining their efforts. Whats 15,000 gallons times 4?? hmmm 60,000 gallons of water could be headed your way, mixed with hurrican force winds *4.....I can make Thunderstrike have vertigo, fling my wendigos at him and the useless hermod, I can most deffinetly make Ironmans oxygen ignite. Its really quite simple. I win.
whos running? he will be there just in the back. No way in hell will you get to him with my powerhouses there and my crystals taking care of you. Sorry
to power my Powerhouse with my energy. Thanks. Really.
Id like to think its more like in the military where they teach you all that you need to know quickly. They have battle experience AND practice with people who have known how to use there powers.
I said that scan was pis in the sense that she could have just taken the flame from him. An entire lifetime? look what she could do in the beginning as well:
KMC Community Forums
Mar 31st, 2006 03:51 PM
try again.
