No he didn't, and it was his plan to lose. He even stated that. He wanted the Age of Magic to end so God would finally take notice. With all the magic being destroyed all the magic users were being weakened and wern't at their full power, but Nabu wanted Spectre to kill him.
Yes he is, I never stated he wasn't. However, he has been shown to be defeated and his powers stolen even by mortals. Also there are some who can control souls, but Talisman controls all spirits and is the choosen one. The Gods avatar, once again as I have stated before there is NO one like her in the DC univerese. Plus not all the magic users he killed were on Dr.Strange's level...far from it actually.
Yes in a straight up fight she LOOSES, the whole debate is can she control him?. No it isn't reaching for straws at all
Forum rules state characters are at their optimum when they fight. At optimum, Spectre destroys pretty much anyone and anything.
You're claiming a girl, through another gods jurisdiction is going to control the spirit of The Spectre. However, The Spectre is not a spirit, the HOST is.
All Black Alice did was temporarily BECOME the Spectre, and only for a handful of moments. What was left, described as an 'afterimage' in the comic was what is known as THE WRATH, to Spectre readers.... which is just a perception. That's all it is. It's a way that the universe interprets gods' uncontrolled anger. She was tapping The Spectre's power, which includes the ability to control and manipulate and destroy and guide any and all souls, yet all her power [which she only maintained for a total of what, 4 sentences?] she could do nothing to affect it. Talisman could not either, because it's not a soul, it's not even actually real, it's just a perception.
The only soul that COULD be argued to be controlled, is the HOST soul, as in current Spectre would be Crispis, but tampering with the host soul would only unleash Gods Wrath, which would then kill her. No one has ever done such a tactic, but the host has shown it can be confused with telepathy and other such tactics, but either the host learns to understand and deals accordingly or simply unleashes the Wrath, which promply deals with the problem itself.
Unless of course, you're going to claim she could control The Logoz next. lol.
Anyways, The Spectre controls souls himself, and on a much higher level of play. It's safe to say he's got a counter for anything she's got. Just as it's safe to say she will lose any and all confontations with a character this powerful.
The gods who's power she summons couldn't defeat him, and the gods that made those gods couldn't beat him. He is the wrath of the almighty and she's way out of her league.
Last edited by Juntai on Apr 10th, 2006 at 12:01 AM
I understand that Talisman is uber powerful, Alpha Flight doesn't get enough respect, Alpha Flight has some of the most powerful characters they just don't get recognized, etc... But this fight is complete non-sense. Spectre is like the Living Tribunal of the DC universe. Spectre would just blink her out of existance. Why is this even a fight?
__________________ Poppa's comin home to sling some dick.
Last edited by batdude123 on Apr 10th, 2006 at 12:06 AM
Of course I even stated that Talisman does't have the physical power to beat him.
Which can be controlled, hence my point. Spirit of Vegenance and the Binder of Spirits.
So? she took the Spectre's power, a mortal took all his power and left him nothing other than just a memory. Once again your commenting on points that have nothing to do with this thread. She wasn't experienced with the Spectre's power and didn't know how to fully use it, however, Spectre is still a living spirit a creature that Talisman is stated she can control with her powers. In that form yes he wasn't real, but Talisman wouldn't do anything like that. They even stated in the Day of Vengeance mini even without a host he was still a spirit.
That's fine, that's why I made this debate. I was not making statements set in stone that she manipulate him. However, you guys were claiming my logic was faulty, while I was still posting evidence. Yes no one has done such a tactic, because there is no one who can. There isn't anyone like Talisman in any of the DC or Marvel universes.
Unknown, like I said for all we know she could even be the avatar for the TOAA the same being as the wraith for Spectre. Not entirely, power-wise yes she can't do the things he can do. However, it's her ability to control all spirits that can give her the edge. Like I said for all we know she could be the avatar for all the gods, since she can manipulate magic on a high degree. Spectre has been beaten by mortals before, he is far from being untouchable.
Talisman can control spirits but not any all spirits. Spectre is not your average spirit, he is exactly like the Living Tribunal. I doubt Talisman is powerful enough to be able to control Spectre. But let's just say for the sake of arguements that she can (even though I doubt she can), how is she gonna control him before he just blinks Talisman out of existance?
__________________ Poppa's comin home to sling some dick.
It's not a spirit, that's just how they percieved it.
I went through this already.
There is The Logoz, a piece of God, and the Host Spirit it bonds to.
The Wrath is just a perception that humanity creates.
This is all supported on panel and can't really be argued by you.
The only soul or spirit in The Spectre, is the hosts.
And attacking such would earn the ire of The Wrath.
But as said, Spectre plays in a different league. He can simply turn her powers off. Even turn the powers of wherever she draws her power from. Or any number of variables. He just plain wins.
Black Alice's random showing was a complete plot device.. and she didn't actually TAKE Spectre's power. She BECAME the Spectre, momentarily. "I am now the engine of divine vengeance". That's what her power is. She BECOMES who she borrows powers from. Similarly, she became Dr Fate, helmet, amulet, trinkets and all. All that was left when she did that in Day of Vengeance was The Wrath. A perception.
But it's just a perception, we know this from The Spectre comics, what was left is not the sum of the whole, it's not what Spectre is. Though it does have form and has existed seperately from Spectre on other occasions.
It is The Logoz and a host spirit, that is what The Spectre is.
She temporarily was bonded to the Logoz, as in she became the engine of divine vengeance, which she said herself. Once that was done, all that was left was an immaterial perception of The Wrath. Which as stated in Spectre comics, is not a spirit, just the way humanity perceives gods anger.
Even with that power, she was unable to affect The Wrath. Or the 'spirit', which is your first clue Talisman wouldn't be able to, since Spectre plays the soul game too, and on a much higher level.
Last edited by Juntai on Apr 10th, 2006 at 01:03 AM