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Talisman vs. Spectre
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Juntai
Divine Vengeance

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by kevdude
I know you own it, I own it too, and all of volume 4, and read history pages of 3. All saying the perception is The Wrath/Spectre, The Logos identifies itself as a piece of God, the Spectre/Wrath does not identify itself as God or a piece of God, it is a fallen angel transformed to serve The Word. Reread Volume 4 and Rebirth. You have said this time and time again Juntai, yah i love the Spectre too, but hes not a aspect of The Presence.
The Wrath is how people percieve The Logoz, which is what the host soul is tied to. It's all written right in the comics dude, I don't understand how you're not getting it.

Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 06:18 AM
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kevdude
The Hooded Man

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Yes The Wrath/Spectre is how ppl perceive the Logoz but that does not me it IS the Logos. The whole time The Spectre has been going around fighting Shazam, CM and Phantom Stranger and hundreds of others, that is what The Wrath does and is, just another name for The Wrath is The Spectre. The Wrath/Spectre was trying to take control of Hal and get him to switch to vengeance, and eventually he wore him down and Hal did switch. Everything fits together what I'm saying, Maybe your not looking hard enough or just don't want to look smile


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 07:55 AM
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Mider
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the reason that the spectre didnt get all the power he needed from absorbing all those magical beings or whatever is cause i believe that it was said in wiki about alex luthor that he was using that energy for his own uses which is why he wanted the spectre to go crazy.

Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 01:57 PM
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Juntai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by kevdude
Yes The Wrath/Spectre is how ppl perceive the Logoz but that does not me it IS the Logos. The whole time The Spectre has been going around fighting Shazam, CM and Phantom Stranger and hundreds of others, that is what The Wrath does and is, just another name for The Wrath is The Spectre. The Wrath/Spectre was trying to take control of Hal and get him to switch to vengeance, and eventually he wore him down and Hal did switch. Everything fits together what I'm saying, Maybe your not looking hard enough or just don't want to look smile
See, this is where the wording gets messed up, I consider the character as a whole "The Spectre", as he's called such, even when The Wrath is not present, even when he's not judging. The Wrath is embodiment of Wrath, and The Logoz is what the powersource is when all the masks are removed. I try to do that to make it less confusing, but I can see where people get caught up in the wording. The Wrath is not The Logoz, it's an imprint on it.

Last edited by Juntai on Apr 10th, 2006 at 06:10 PM

Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 06:01 PM
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GalacticStorm
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Forget what Black Alice did. Come up with the scans to show first off that Talisman controlled skyfather level spirits and then show proof that she can control abstract level spirits. Without such proof, your argument is void from the get go.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 07:39 PM
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Mider
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if she can controll ALL spirits why didnt she just controll Llans spirit or his armys?

Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 08:18 PM
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Juntai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Forget what Black Alice did. Come up with the scans to show first off that Talisman controlled skyfather level spirits and then show proof that she can control abstract level spirits. Without such proof, your argument is void from the get go.
Way to get down to it.

At first I thought he was just playing around, but he seems to seriously believe that she could feasibly control Spectre. I believe she could try attacking the host, the host spirit is vulnerable until it discerns what must be judged and unleashes the wrath.

Last edited by Juntai on Apr 10th, 2006 at 08:38 PM

Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 08:35 PM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mider
if she can controll ALL spirits why didnt she just controll Llans spirit or his armys?


Uhhhh she did, didn't I say that? Also she can't control Llan since basically he isn't a spirit.

and GS here is TAlisman controlling the Great Beasts who are skyfather
1. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g...Flight38-18.jpg
2. http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g...Flight38-19.jpg

She has summoned the spirit of death, the spirit of time and space and various other spirits.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 09:07 PM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai
Way to get down to it.

At first I thought he was just playing around, but he seems to seriously believe that she could feasibly control Spectre. I believe she could try attacking the host, the host spirit is vulnerable until it discerns what must be judged and unleashes the wrath.


No it's a serious comment, she has been shown to control skyfather beings from the spirit world and she is the Gods avatar as well as the Spirit Binder. Also, like I said a hundred times which you guys seem to ignore physically she can't beat him, her best and only hope was if she could control him due to he is a spirit.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 09:09 PM
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GalacticStorm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King_Mungi
No it's a serious comment, she has been shown to control skyfather beings from the spirit world and she is the Gods avatar as well as the Spirit Binder. Also, like I said a hundred times which you guys seem to ignore physically she can't beat him, her best and only hope was if she could control him due to he is a spirit.


And you cant even prove that she can control a spirit of the Spectres power level, therefore you cant continue this argument any further. Give it up, its dead end.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 09:21 PM
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GalacticStorm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai
Way to get down to it.

At first I thought he was just playing around, but he seems to seriously believe that she could feasibly control Spectre. I believe she could try attacking the host, the host spirit is vulnerable until it discerns what must be judged and unleashes the wrath.


Same here. I thought it was just a messaround. To think that someone could try to create a credible thread pitting Talisman against Spectre. confused

Usually id be all over a thread like this but i refuse to take this seriously. The logic is elementary and the arguments poorly supported.


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Last edited by GalacticStorm on Apr 10th, 2006 at 09:35 PM

Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 09:23 PM
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Juntai
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King_Mungi
No it's a serious comment, she has been shown to control skyfather beings from the spirit world and she is the Gods avatar as well as the Spirit Binder. Also, like I said a hundred times which you guys seem to ignore physically she can't beat him, her best and only hope was if she could control him due to he is a spirit.
I'm not trying to really poke fun of you for your belief, I'm really just more suspended in disbelief that anyone thinks character shown as among the mightest of all characters, a capable godslayer, will lose to an Earth mystic through simple spirit control techniques.

Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 09:42 PM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
And you cant even prove that she can control a spirit of the Spectres power level, therefore you cant continue this argument any further. Give it up, its dead end.


Huh? I did, and what did I say several times in this thread? No I can't prove it if I knew for sure she could control him then I wouldn't have made this thread. Are you guys reading what I posted?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Same here. I thought it was just a messaround. To think that someone could try to create a credible thread pitting Talisman against Spectre. confused

Usually id be all over a thread like this but i refuse to take this seriously. The logic is elementary and the arguments poorly supported.


Poorly supported? I have shown scans of how Talisman is said to manipulate all spirits and shown how she has manipulate skyfather beings because they were from the spirit world.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Juntai
I'm not trying to really poke fun of you for your belief, I'm really just more suspended in disbelief that anyone thinks character shown as among the mightest of all characters, a capable godslayer, will lose to an Earth mystic through simple spirit control techniques.


Actually I never said Talisman or Spectre would lose, just posted evidence for Talisman since let's be honest no one knows about her. Also as I said before she can't match up with him physically, her only way and I mean only way she could win if the manipulation would work.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 10:14 PM
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batdude123
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Didn't Juntai already explain that Spectre isn't actually a spirit? That's just our perception of him.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 10:20 PM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by batdude123
Didn't Juntai already explain that Spectre isn't actually a spirit? That's just our perception of him.


Yes, but she can manipulate the host spirit. Heck the Great Beasts arn't spirits but she manipulated them just because they were from the Spirit world.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 10:22 PM
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GalacticStorm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King_Mungi
Yes, but she can manipulate the host spirit. Heck the Great Beasts arn't spirits but she manipulated them just because they were from the Spirit world.


But the host spirit is protected by the Wrath who is vastly more powerful than anything Talisman has been shown to be able to control. Speculation, Talisman goes down 10/10.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 10:27 PM
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batdude123
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^ yes


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 10:30 PM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But the host spirit is protected by the Wrath who is vastly more powerful than anything Talisman has been shown to be able to control. Speculation, Talisman goes down 10/10.


That's fine, that's what this debate is about if she could or not. You asked for scans stating that Llan is the source of evil I provided that, you asked for scans showing Talisman controlling skyfather level creatures and I did that. I provided scans that Talisman is unqiue and special and the gods avatar, and the Binder of Spirits. Do not dare say my arguements were poorly supported.

As I said countless times, yet people think that I have said Talisman can match him power-wise...which she can't, her only bet is IF she could control him. If not then yes 10/10 for Spectre.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 10:31 PM
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GalacticStorm
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by King_Mungi
That's fine, that's what this debate is about if she could or not. You asked for scans stating that Llan is the source of evil I provided that, you asked for scans showing Talisman controlling skyfather level creatures and I did that. I provided scans that Talisman is unqiue and special and the gods avatar, and the Binder of Spirits. Do not dare say my arguements were poorly supported.

As I said countless times, yet people think that I have said Talisman can match him power-wise...which she can't, her only bet is IF she could control him. If not then yes 10/10 for Spectre.


Your arguments for saying that Talisman could beat Spectre were indeed poorly supported. None of what you provided is anywhere near sufficient to make anyone with common sense even entertain such a notion.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 10:34 PM
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-K-M-
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your arguments for saying that Talisman could beat Spectre were indeed poorly supported. None of what you provided is anywhere near sufficient to make anyone with common sense even entertain such a notion.


AHHH! I never said that, I posted scans to show Talisman's power. Read what I have said, and no what is unreasonable the Gods Avatar and the Binder of SPirits manipulating spirits who has manipulate skyfathers with no trouble manipulate Spectre who is also a spirit. You on the other hand have not brought anything to this debate other than trying to insult me.


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Old Post Apr 10th, 2006 10:37 PM
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