KMC Forums - ufc/pride

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Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He only had three or four fights at Strike Force, but Henderson was the only legitimate top tier fight (sorry Mayhem Miller, I like you but you just aren't that good). You can make a case that Shields should be 0-4 in the UFC right now. It's a disgrace that he was gifted a decision over Kampmann to hype a GSP title fight, and I would have given Sexyama the decision victory for his Sexy Judo throws.

Shields has very underrated standup in my imo. It doens;t look too pretty but he gets the job done, and he did land more hits against Sexy, and his judo throws while awesome didnt do too much and didng get him ground control.

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He's a little stout, but certainly does not have a Middleweight Frame. Japanese fighters don't like using the system and tend to compete at what ever class their natural weight falls into, guys like Henderson cut 15-20 pounds of water weight for the weigh in and come in heavier for the actual fight. Misaki is a welterweight.

I personally disagree buyt we can leave it at that. His chest gerth and back gerthn is MW size next to his height.

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Same goes for Shields. His spindly week vegan frame shouldn't be competing at Middleweight with game competition. He could hit the game and put on some mass and become a proper middleweight... but he isn't one right now. I doubt he had to do much of a cut if any at all to hit the middleweight restrictions.

see above

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Dan Henderson is not a natural MW, he might have been at one time... but that is long past. He is old now and the cut is too hard, has too much mass, and the weight cut destroys his cardio... he has a hard enough time not gassing at LHW right now.

You are natural weight class no matter how old you are, that is why it is called "natural". DH is natural MW, but eh ahs been bulking in size to fight at higher weight classes and so has high proportion of body fat next to his frame.

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Those weren't excuses, they were context.

Point is GSP's losses are not reflective of hos good he is in his prime, well same with Dan Henderson, whether they are early losses or not.

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Half of those "big names" for Hendo are extremely suspect, the GSP equivalent of Hieron, Parisyan and Hardy. Also you count Sherk for GSP but not Kos and Alves?

Sherk was perennial title holder and contendor. Alves and Kos are at best no1 contendors.

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Fedor is a legend but he is past his prime now, I don't see how anyone could argue otherwise. He is on a two fight win streak right now... but against who? He isn't fight top 20 competitors any more. He should retire and go hang out with Crocop some where.

I disagree he has just faced and been unlucky agaimnst top competition. Fabricia Werdum, Henderson and Big Foot are no joke.

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Prime Chuck as subsequently be addressed by several other posters.

I admit my mistake.

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Shogun injured his knee a second time during his title victory over Machida, you are thinking of his original knee injury against Griffen. We haven't seen if Shogun can return to his fighting prime since that surgery, but so far he doesn't look nearly as good as he did before.

Ah I thought second one was before machida fight my mistake. Still I think he still looks great. he just faced greta competition that ahd his number. He is technical striker buta lso brawler and DH outbrawled him, adn JJ fought the perfect fight against him. Even in his prime we saw his get outstriked by Lil Nog and he was getting beaten by Alistair Overeem both times until he oulled win off. Surgerys and medical care are a lot better nowadays, i think shogun is fine, he looked great against forrest, as good as ever.

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Yeah I mistakenly attributed Little Nog's win to Big Nog.

NP.

True enough.

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Probably true on both accounts, but their records speak for themselves. Anderson would probably do fine at Middleweight, but he wouldn't be the champ (even baring Jones), he'd be to the MW division as BJ was to the WW. Jones would have to pull an Overeem and add a great deal of mass if he wanted to compete effectively at HW... but so far no one has had anything for him at LHW, everyone he fights just stands their like a deer caught in the head lights. Who is even next in line for a title shot with Jones after Hendo? Gustafsson? Maybe Bonnar? Anyone think those guys have any change against him?

So you see why they shouldnt be in P4P perrenialship? They would not be champs at higher weight classes, wieght classes that they should be at.And Bonnar has no chance against him, Dan Henderson does and Gus has simialr chance to Mahida except he also has smaller reach disadvantege, more power and better chin.

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Frankie for sure, since he should be feather weight, prime BJ is there too... but he is two fat and lazy now. The rest thought? Maybe Mighty Mouse but I thought Uncle Creepy beat him, so I'm not sure he is the best Flyweight. Rashad would have cut off one of his massive legs to hit MW, Machida and Shogun could probably drop down, Machida would likely have an easier time with the cut than Shogun.

What abotu benavidez. he is clearly best at Flywegith and probably no2 at bantam.

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Henderson is a natural LHW who used to be able to exploit the system and fight at MW the same way Anderson has fought at WW. Fedor is past his Prime and a lot of people feel like Shogun should have won that fight with Hendo or at the very least it should have been a draw. [/B]

Perhaps but if you look at fight, and i am not trying to take away from shogun, but it it was just 3 round fight shogun would have been destroyed and humiliated. Not to take away from him he is incredibly tough and survived, and henderson gasses in the later rounds, which is why it was arguably draw. But JJ isn;t asd tough as Shogun, and Henderson's chances aganinst him probbaly hinge on him getting early finish, as his cardio likely won;t be better. Still though if you look at Shogun fight Dan Henderson didn;lt even utilise his wrestler and basically embarrASED SHOGUN AT WHAT HE'S BEST AT. sorry about vapts anyway against jon jones dan henderosn is olympic level wrestler at greco roman what jones uses, has arguably best chin in mma, is veyr aggressive and not afraid to eat punches, jones does nit have amazing footwork and will not be hard to catch provided his opponent does nto stand back friom his reach and act tentaive. Hendo is man to dethrone Jones. In order I think beta chance against jone sis:

Hendo
Rashad
Rampage
Gus
Machida
Bader

My opinion...