Reality of situation is that Anderson is going to get dominated by Chael for another 5 rounds and this time not manage to pull off submission.
I don't like the way Dana says that Anderson is unquestionably the best MMA fighter of all time, when he has massive holes in his game that many wrestlers should be able to exploit. P4P I think all of the following are better right now: Alistair Overeem, Junior Dos Santos, Jon Jones, Rashad Evans, Lyoto Machida, Georges St-Pierre, Ben Henderson, Frankie Edgar, Jose Aldo, Dominick Cruz, Mighty Mouse. They are all truly elite at their game, and have the skills to keep fight that way. Can't say the same for Anderson (his TK defence is not excellent). Prime BJ Penn (who is P4P best of all time imo), Chuck (second best P4P of all time) and even Rampage imo as well.
You can't get dominated like he did against one-dimensional fighter and still be viewed as greatest imo. This kind of thing would not happen to similar fighters like Machida, Dos Santos, or Aldo.
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Last edited by Darth Ray Park on Jun 26th, 2012 at 05:52 PM
Look at every great fighter that Anderson has faced:
Vitor Belfort - Striker/BJJ, no wrestling
Forrest Griffin - Not elite in any single discipline
Dan Henderson - Wrestler/Striker, but uses his wrestling in the clinch which Anderson has his Muay Thai for, does not use it with explosive takedowns
Rich Franklin - Not elite in any single discipline
Jeremy Horn - Not elite in any single discipline
He is great standing. He is great in the clinch. He is great on his back. But he is not great at keeping the fight standing against a great MMA wrestler. Which is a MASSIVE Hole in his game that was only exploited by Chael Sonnen because Chael is only elite MMA wrestler that he has faced.
Compare him to someone like Chuck - in his prime arguably best striker in his division and even best striker P4P, but also amazing at keeping the fight stading due to his incredible defencive wrestling, which manifested in his legendary takedown defence and incredible ability to get back to his feet if the fight went to the ground. Chuck will always be P4P better fighter for me because he was more complete and doesn't have such a massive weakness, regardless of whether Anderson would beat him or not (probably would as the fight would stay standing, but that is not the point. where anderson was dominated by chael, chuck would laugh in his face.)
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My dude, first of all, yes, I know a thing or two about BJJ. Second of all, I never said Mir didn't have good submissions. The thing is, Werdum's are better. And Mir has a higher submission rate, but Werdum has a higher KO rate. His fight with Brandon Vera was basically him just dominating from top control, but instead of going for the submission, he simply pounded him out.
It was a good no stoppage. Rich wasn't even on wobbly legs when the round ended. He was able to continue just fine, and that's really the bottom line.
No, Carwin/Lesnar shouldn't have been stopped either. No offense, but I'm glad you aren't an MMA ref.
Like I said, the "there's nobody left" argument doesn't cut it. Dos Santos is only a month removed from whooping Mir's ass. It's not like he's in desperate need of a fight right now. And you're acting like I'm the one who's setting up Cain/JDS. Lol, I don't think he deserves a shot right now either. My suggestion is Werdum/Cain for a title eliminator. Fact of the matter is that wins over Russow and Nelson shouldn't earn you a title shot, regardless of his wins beforehand.
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Then what would you suggest? Make champion wait? If there is really no better option, you can either take it or make the champion wait for a better one, which means less fights and less activity for the champion. Werdum and Cain both fought at same time/more recently than JDS and a title eliminator basically keeps JDS out of action for one fight period. If the champion is ready to fight he should take best challenger he can possibly take. Waiting just slows the sport down.
Most people would agree that Werdum is a top 5 UFC HW. You have JDS, Cain, Carwin, Werdum, Mir. He's the only one that JDS hasn't recently beaten. What you are suggesting holds the sport back.
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You're telling me that this guy who got dominate by 1-deminseional wrestler is the best MMArtist of all time? When his only real elite skill is his striking and maybe clinch? lol
MMA
MIXED martial arts
Anderson Silva is not complete enough to be greatest MMArtist of all time. Not by a long shot.
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What I'm suggesting is that somebody earns a title shot, rather than gifted one on the basis of there being nobody left. This is the premiere fighting league in the world; it needs to be legitimate.
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In perfect world it would be like that but that can't always be case and plus people will disagree on what counts as earning it. At the end of the day, if you best person available, then your only other option is to make champion wait, which nobody wants. Plus for long reigning champ which JDS will probably be, it will only be a matter of time when they beat the top few fighters anyway. So what do you suggest? They continuously beat on the same people, and not give others a chance? Roy Nelson and Mike Russow are arguably top ten in UFC, and he also has recent wins over Fedor and Big Foot. Is that not enough?
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So you are proposing that he will get the submission every time?
In a fight where Chael dominated, We have every reason to think the same will take place. Same can't be said for the last second submission.
Doesn't matter. It shows how badly he was dominated. If it was 3 round fight it would have been a one sided beat down and embarassment to the champion.
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For the record I love Anderson and think he's the most exciting fighter and probably best striker, in the sport. P4P, he beats probably, anybody that isn;t elite MMA wrestler that brings the fight to him.
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I'm proposing that considering Anderson's record and the fact that he submitted Chael the **** out last time they met, I'd not be so quick to say "he will lose, cos he can't handle the wrestling."
Doesn't that sound odd? You're insisting that Chael will "dominate" like he did last time, but Anderson won't submit the same. Odd, no?
Except it wasn't a 3 Round Fight and Anderson won, two things that DO matter.
Chael can take him down and keep him their at will.
Anderson struggled to do anything all fight and managed the submission last second, a bit longer and he wouldn't have at all. That is difference, and that is why we can expect same from Chael, not from Anderson. Plus Chael will be more wary of submission this time round.
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JDS may not be the greatest HW striker, but he is still better than Werdum. Let's get serious, Roy Nelson is a gatekeeper. Beating him doesn't suddenly catapult Werdum to JDS level striking.
I'll get the video for you. The fact that sparring matches are usually around 50%-75% power actually supports my point dude. When power and size are removed, Werdum had to rely on his skill......and he came up short.
Personally, I find Werdum boring. I always have, and I likely always will. I appreciate his attempt to grow as a striker, but the fact that he's even a "contender" is just lol to me. Someone with his skill in practically any other weight class would lucky to be top 30.
Yes, he is. "Greatest" refers to the ability to win, which he has. It doesn't matter if Anderson won every fight with a 1 punch KO. If he beats everyone else, he's the best.
I think you're talking about "most well rounded", which is different.
Last edited by StyleTime on Jun 27th, 2012 at 12:31 AM
MMA is a "what have you done for me lately" sport. I'm sorry, but I don't see a two fight win-streak over mediocre fighters as being worthy of a title shot. As far as Dos Santos beating up on the same guys; hey, if they've earned it, they've earned it. Throwing a variety of fighters at Dos Santos just for sheer variety's sake isn't something I agree with.
Come on now. That's ridiculous.
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Which is my point. It doesn't matter that Wanderlai is weight class below him.
Disagree. He's much better than Demian Maia who was a long time top 10 MW. He's also better than Frank Mir who's a two time HW champ and has been top HW for a very long time now. Naturally BJJ guys often fight at disadvantage to striking or wrestling guys, but Werdum's striking really isn;t that bad that combined with his elite Jits makes him a very impressive fighter imo.
Are you going to deny that his TK down defence is a massive hole in his game that any elite MMA wrestler should be able to exploit? I don't care that he doesn't possess great offensive wrestling, but that he lacks great TK defence means that his ability to keep the fight where he's best is diminished, and while he is dangerous on the ground he's hardly an elite threat from that position. Compare that to Machida, JDS, Aldo etc who have great stand up, but are also very, very good at keeping the fight that way. If Anderson had faced more elite MMA wrestlers, his record wouldn't be half as good. If someone like Rashad dropped down he would probably be champion.
Compare him to Georges St-Pierre for example. His striking is arguably best in division, he outstruck BJ Penn and most of the people who have stood with him, and anybody that could even possibly threaten him with that he could likely just take down and dominate them on the ground.
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Jun 26th, 2012 05:44 PM
