KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Movie Franchises » Lord of the Rings » Balrog versus Sauron

Balrog versus Sauron
Started by: DarthMaul9123

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (6): « First ... « 3 4 [5] 6 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
Allankles
Kwisatz Haderach

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
But he was clearly leading a host of enemies when he created the wedge. It's not a similar feat. Infact the proof is there as Gothmog and another Balrog took down Fingon together.


Glaurung had a host of allies as well. And Gothmog was always leading the host. He was Morgoth's military commander after all.

The text says "Gothmog", not "Gothmog and" drove "a dark wedge" through the hosts of Men and Elves. And his fight with Fingon was one-on-one it was a ceremonial battle.

Gothmog had ripped through the army to face Fingon personally. Fingon himself was clearly depicted fighting Gothmog alone, it is only at the end when another Balrog wrapped its whip around Fingon's neck allowing Gothmog to kill Fingon.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Balrogs aren't massive giants. for that demon was double his stature)..."


Double his stature would mean between 12 and 20 ft which is consistent with the depiction of Durin's Bane in the movie. A spirit being about the height of a Troll, that's the definition of a giant.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
By attacking the unprotected underside. I doubt Glaurung is going to flip over and let Gothmog have a good ol' swing.


Almost half his body is underside. The bottom of his neck his entire torso and stomach. And if he's flying at close range he becomes more susceptible to a single fatal blow from an axe. And besides, I doubt Dragons were as powerful as Ainur, since it is Ainur that created them.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Turin tried to attack Glaurung once but the dragon placed Turin under his spell thus he was helpless and defenseless. No way Turin could have beat him in a fair one on one fight. Heck he admits this in The Children of Hurin.


Using sneaky spells is hardly fair either.


__________________


Iboga chose not to fight, to allow himself to evolve. He had the wisdom to abandon the actions of war when he knew they would no longer serve him.

Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 06:03 PM
Allankles is currently offline Click here to Send Allankles a Private Message Find more posts by Allankles Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Incanus
Istari

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

They could be at a slightly mid-long range as well, due to the reach of the whip of fire.



Balrogs wernt only twice as high, they could be twice to three times bigger.


__________________
Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.

Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 06:12 PM
Incanus is currently offline Click here to Send Incanus a Private Message Find more posts by Incanus Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
leonheartmm
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location:

does it matter how BIG balrogs were???? its their MAGIC which gives them power. do u think sauron was BIG?

Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 08:40 PM
leonheartmm is currently offline Find more posts by leonheartmm Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Allankles
Glaurung had a host of allies as well. And Gothmog was always leading the host. He was Morgoth's military commander after all.

True.

quote:
The text says "Gothmog", not "Gothmog and" drove "a dark wedge" through the hosts of Men and Elves. And his fight with Fingon was one-on-one it was a ceremonial battle.

Perhaps. But sweaping apart the two armies if far more impressive then driving in a "dark wedge".

quote:
Gothmog had ripped through the army to face Fingon personally. Fingon himself was clearly depicted fighting Gothmog alone, it is only at the end when another Balrog wrapped its whip around Fingon's neck allowing Gothmog to kill Fingon.

I never said diffrently. I said "Gothmog and another Balrog took down Fingon together." WHich is true.

quote:
Double his stature would mean between 12 and 20 ft which is consistent with the depiction of Durin's Bane in the movie. A spirit being about the height of a Troll, that's the definition of a giant.

Assuming Glorfindel is a normal sized elf double his stature would be roughly 12 feet, not 20. 20 would be more then thrice his stature. Also Gothmog was small enough to fit in a well and be tripped by a Elf, and Durin's Bane was able to fit through a doorway in Moria. And the Balrog in the move is far larger than 20 feet. His headd is almost the size of Gandalf.

quote:
Almost half his body is underside. The bottom of his neck his entire torso and stomach. And if he's flying at close range he becomes more susceptible to a single fatal blow from an axe.

First Glaurung isn't going to be "flying at close range". His unprotected undersides are going to be on the ground.

quote:
And besides, I doubt Dragons were as powerful as Ainur, since it is Ainur that created them.

No mere Ainur created the Dragons. Even more we don't know what dragons are. However theu have spirits and are therefore no normal beasts, more than likely they are bodies filled with a maiar similar to the great eagles and Werewolves. Or perhaps they are filled with Morgoth's spirit itself


quote:
Using sneaky spells is hardly fair either.

Sneaky spells? It was hardly sneaky and using spells in a middle of a fight is perfectly fair.

Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 08:51 PM
ares834 is online now! Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Incanus
Istari

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

Oh yeah, Galurung cant fly, he was made BEFORE the winged dragons...... But dude, you are making Glaurung sound wtf uber., He wasnt.


__________________
Anar
Nanye i ne Anduril i macil Elendilo
Lercuvanten i moli Mordoreo
Isil
Turgon aran Gondolin tortha gar a matha, i vegil Glamdring gud dae lo, dam an Glamhoth.

Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 08:55 PM
Incanus is currently offline Click here to Send Incanus a Private Message Find more posts by Incanus Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
leonheartmm
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location:

ive always thought that encalgaphon was much greater than glaurung. the later merely had psychic powers

Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 09:19 PM
leonheartmm is currently offline Find more posts by leonheartmm Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Gender: Male
Location: United States

I also agree. Ancalagon is most likely the most powerful of the Dragons.

Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 09:39 PM
ares834 is online now! Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
Fegelien!

Gender: Male
Location:

Too bad his debut went the way of the Titanic.


__________________
Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.

Old Post Aug 6th, 2009 11:11 PM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Khamul 666
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: Laketown

leons a big debby downer its not changing the facts its changing the situation the wind isnt going to blow the same way for eternity and plus several of tolkiens books were written as if he himself was voicing it so ofcoarse its going to change thats what makes it more realistic in form


(and yes i didnt use periods capitals commas or any other crap)


__________________
This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

Old Post Aug 7th, 2009 03:40 AM
Khamul 666 is currently offline Click here to Send Khamul 666 a Private Message Find more posts by Khamul 666 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Morgromir
leons a big debby downer its not changing the facts its changing the situation the wind isnt going to blow the same way for eternity and plus several of tolkiens books were written as if he himself was voicing it so ofcoarse its going to change thats what makes it more realistic in form


(and yes i didnt use periods capitals commas or any other crap)

You know you really should use punctuation so we can understand your posts.

Old Post Aug 7th, 2009 04:31 AM
ares834 is online now! Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Allankles
Kwisatz Haderach

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Assuming Glorfindel is a normal sized elf double his stature would be roughly 12 feet, not 20. 20 would be more then thrice his stature. Also Gothmog was small enough to fit in a well and be tripped by a Elf, and Durin's Bane was able to fit through a doorway in Moria. And the Balrog in the move is far larger than 20 feet. His headd is almost the size of Gandalf.


That would put the Balrog between 12 - 18 ft (18 is close to 20 ft as a rough estimate) since "double" is also rough estimate. Even if we take 12 ft, that would make them giants.

I don't remember Durin's size, but he was no more than 3 times the height of Gandalf from what I remember, fairly consistent with "double" the height of Men and Elves.

And Moria had huge archways, it wasn't some normal sized complex. And fitting into a well only requires that your width can fit through it. It doesn't mean you have to fit in lengthwise.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
First Glaurung isn't going to be "flying at close range". His unprotected undersides are going to be on the ground.


I forgot he was a ground Dragon. Doesn't much help his chances of avoiding a giant axe.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
No mere Ainur created the Dragons. Even more we don't know what dragons are. However theu have spirits and are therefore no normal beasts, more than likely they are bodies filled with a maiar similar to the great eagles and Werewolves.


Dragons according to Tolkien were bred by Morgoth. Glaurung was said to have been bread probably from a terrestial beast and then corrupted and infused with sapience by Morgoth. So I doubt a terrestial being is going to be more powerful than an Ainur.


quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
Sneaky spells? It was hardly sneaky and using spells in a middle of a fight is perfectly fair.


By sneaky I don't mean unfair, it just means non-straightforward.


__________________


Iboga chose not to fight, to allow himself to evolve. He had the wisdom to abandon the actions of war when he knew they would no longer serve him.

Old Post Aug 7th, 2009 04:24 PM
Allankles is currently offline Click here to Send Allankles a Private Message Find more posts by Allankles Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Turins bane
Junior Member

Gender:
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Nellinator
Sauron lost in a fight in a giant dog (Huan). A Balrog beats him everytime. Also I do not believe the Balrog in LOTR was weak just not the best. Sauron inHua the LOTR is weaker than his original form because he does not have the ring and would definitely lose because of it.
Gothmog wouldve lost against Huan because it was Huans fate to die by fighting the mightiest wolf that would ever walk the world

Old Post Jun 16th, 2014 05:25 PM
Turins bane is currently offline Click here to Send Turins bane a Private Message Find more posts by Turins bane Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Turins bane
Junior Member

Gender:
Location:

Sauron is immortal as proved by the drowning of Numenor Im pretty sure none of the balrogs had that ability I also read in a post that Sauron didnt lead any armies into battle which is untrue"Sauron greatest & most terrible of the servant ofMorgoth came against Orodreth,he took Minas Tirith by assault"i

Old Post Jun 16th, 2014 05:54 PM
Turins bane is currently offline Click here to Send Turins bane a Private Message Find more posts by Turins bane Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Turins bane
Junior Member

Gender:
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonheartmm
if i remember correctly. in the fellowship of the ring, it was stated clearly that the balrog in moria, aka durin's bane was one of power to be feared second only to the dark lord sauron. dont remember who it was who said it, either gandalf or the fellowship when talking to galadriel, and he was defeated in the end by gandalf and gandalf admits and is stated many times to be weaker than sauron. also being descended from a maier or valar doesnt necessarily make u stronger than an elf. seeing as thingol has already slain a balrog. and the feats of feanor are by far superior to sauron , even with the one ring. id also recon that fingolfin was greater than sauron even with the one ring and earendil cud also be compareable. lets also remember that the creating of the sylmarils is
feat that no valar cud replicate.

id say that sauron WITHOUT the one ring cud lose to gothmog 4/10 but WITH the one ring, i dont think so.
Sauron created the rings of power to say that an elf is superior to Sauron who I believe was probably the most powerful of all the maia good or evil is absurd.The Noldor were powerful &were blessed with skills by Eru but Sauron was far superior

Old Post Jun 16th, 2014 06:15 PM
Turins bane is currently offline Click here to Send Turins bane a Private Message Find more posts by Turins bane Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
Lord Lucien
Fegelien!

Gender: Male
Location:

Your grammar sucks so much. Your English is so bad, and it's making me so sad.


__________________
Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.

Old Post Jun 17th, 2014 03:54 AM
Lord Lucien is currently offline Click here to Send Lord Lucien a Private Message Find more posts by Lord Lucien Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
StealthRanger
S Class Demon

Gender: Male
Location: Makai

Dat necro

And Sauron stomps


__________________
"I'm the hand of a god! I'm the dark messiah! I'm the vengeful one!

Old Post Jun 17th, 2014 05:17 AM
StealthRanger is currently offline Click here to Send StealthRanger a Private Message Find more posts by StealthRanger Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
KuRuPT Thanosi
Senior Member

Gender:
Location: United States

We've already settled this... Gothmog beats Suaron in a one v one h2h battle.

Old Post Dec 11th, 2014 07:01 PM
KuRuPT Thanosi is currently offline Click here to Send KuRuPT Thanosi a Private Message Find more posts by KuRuPT Thanosi Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
ares834
Knight of Ren

Gender: Male
Location: United States

If by "we've already settled this" you mean you've claimed as such while also showing a distinct lack of understanding of the source material, sure. If you mean we have come to some mutual understanding based on the concrete evidence then certainly not.

Old Post Dec 11th, 2014 07:52 PM
ares834 is online now! Click here to Send ares834 a Private Message Find more posts by ares834 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
quanchi112
Unavoidable

Gender: Male
Location: Ohio

quote: (post)
Originally posted by ares834
If by "we've already settled this" you mean you've claimed as such while also showing a distinct lack of understanding of the source material, sure. If you mean we have come to some mutual understanding based on the concrete evidence then certainly not.
You just summed up Kurupt in virtually all his debates. He often forgets what happens and never supports his opinion with proof just a baseless claim repeater.


__________________

Old Post Dec 12th, 2014 03:23 AM
quanchi112 is currently offline Click here to Send quanchi112 a Private Message Find more posts by quanchi112 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
NemeBro
Savior of KMC

Gender: Unspecified
Location: Saving KMC

quote: (post)
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
We've already settled this... Gothmog beats Suaron in a one v one h2h battle.
How does Gothmog beat Sauron when Sauron's feats are better?


__________________
Thanks Scythe!

"I GOTTA FIND OUT WHO KILLED MY DAD"

Old Post Dec 12th, 2014 06:31 AM
NemeBro is currently offline Click here to Send NemeBro a Private Message Find more posts by NemeBro Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 02:34 AM.
Pages (6): « First ... « 3 4 [5] 6 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Movie Franchises » Lord of the Rings » Balrog versus Sauron

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.