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Are we enslaved to our own minds?
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Atlantis001
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by docb77
I think it's actually impossible to be enslaved to ones own mind, because one is his own mind.


I think that what he meant is if someone IS his own mind then we are truly enslaved by ourselves. Like being doomed to be ourselves... to stay in our ego or individuality.


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Old Post Jul 8th, 2006 05:58 AM
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FistOfThe North
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Wow. The mind has a mind of it's own. Intriguing.


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Old Post Jul 8th, 2006 12:50 PM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Atlantis001
I think that what he meant is if someone IS his own mind then we are truly enslaved by ourselves. Like being doomed to be ourselves... to stay in our ego or individuality.

Not only is the ego an illusion that one, literally, thinks is his/her identity, its singularity/unity is an illusion. Mentally, "I" is a loosely organized conglomeration of many, many "mini-egos," each with its own agenda, inner dialogue, will and emotional set. Again, the best known illustration of this is the Lil Angel / Lil Devil dichotomy.


quote:
The mind has a mind of it's own.

This illusion--the ego conglomeration--is like a living thing, a psychological life-form, which, like a living thing, seeks to preserve itself. It fears and avoids death, sustaining itself via one's inner dialogue.


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Old Post Jul 8th, 2006 01:17 PM
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Wonderer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
Not only is the ego an illusion that one, literally, thinks is his/her identity, its singularity/unity is an illusion. Mentally, "I" is a loosely organized conglomeration of many, many "mini-egos," each with its own agenda, inner dialogue, will and emotional set. Again, the best known illustration of this is the Lil Angel / Lil Devil dichotomy.



This illusion--the ego conglomeration--is like a living thing, a psychological life-form, which, like a living thing, seeks to preserve itself. It fears and avoids death, sustaining itself via one's inner dialogue.


Why do you say that on'es ego is an illusion? Is the ego not a real, valid part of one's mind? Isn't the ego just basically one's Psychology? I wouldn't say a person's psychology/sense of self/consciousness is an illusion. I think it's very real.

Old Post Jul 11th, 2006 12:39 PM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wonderer
Why do you say that on'es ego is an illusion? Is the ego not a real, valid part of one's mind? Isn't the ego just basically one's Psychology? I wouldn't say a person's psychology/sense of self/consciousness is an illusion. I think it's very real.


It's certainly real in the sense that we're aware of it; that we relate to the world from that POV; and it is a necessary, healthy step in psychological development. But it is an illusion in that it is not our "final identity destination," so to speak. That, ultimately, is "God" (ie, from a meditative/spiritual/transpersonal perspective).


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Old Post Jul 11th, 2006 12:52 PM
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Wonderer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
It's certainly real in the sense that we're aware of it; that we relate to the world from that POV; and it is a necessary, healthy step in psychological development. But it is an illusion in that it is not our "final identity destination," so to speak. That, ultimately, is "God" (ie, from a meditative/spiritual/transpersonal perspective).


I don't quite understand you. So, you are saying that the human individual does not exist, but that only God(whatever that is) exists?

Old Post Jul 11th, 2006 12:56 PM
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Mindship
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Wonderer
I don't quite understand you. So, you are saying that the human individual does not exist, but that only God(whatever that is) exists?


In the sense I mentioned above, human individuality exists. Depending on one's definition of God, however, human individuality is either separate from, or a part of, God. Mystical/meditative literature emphasizes the latter (part of God).

The development of the ego is part of normal, healthy psychological development. According to the Western paradigm, however, that's it: psychological development ends with ego. There is no soul, no God, nothing further to "evolve" toward. There is nothing more.

However, since the mystical schools of thought say there is more (ie, "God"), psychological development does not have to end with ego. The same process of development, which occurs automatically, taking each and every one of us from infant-mind to adult-mind (ego), can be re-ignited, so to speak, via meditation.

As a metaphor, think of an individual cell in your body. Using the term "consciousness" in the broadest sense, that cell has its own individual awareness, but at the same time it is part of the larger entity of the body. If a cell could meditate, it would transcend its individual awareness and become conscious of the greater awareness of the whole body. Individuality is not obliterated; it's just put in context.

Sorry for the rambling.


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Last edited by Mindship on Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:25 PM

Old Post Jul 11th, 2006 01:21 PM
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Wonderer
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mindship
In the sense I mentioned above, human individuality exists. Depending on one's definition of God, however, human individuality is either separate from, or a part of, God. Mystical/meditative literature emphasizes the latter (part of God).

The development of the ego is part of normal, healthy psychological development. According to the Western paradigm, however, that's it: psychological development ends with ego. There is no soul, no God, nothing further to "evolve" toward. There is nothing more.

However, since the mystical schools of thought say there is more (ie, "God"), psychological development does not have to end with ego. The same process of development, which occurs automatically, taking each and every one of us from infant-mind to adult-mind (ego), can be re-ignited, so to speak, via meditation.

As a metaphor, think of an individual cell in your body. Using the term "consciousness" in the broadest sense, that cell has its own individual awareness, but at the same time it is part of the larger entity of the body. If a cell could meditate, it would transcend its individual awareness and become conscious of the greater awareness of the whole body. Individuality is not obliterated; it's just put in context.

Sorry for the rambling.

This makes more sense. Yes, I agree that it's vitally important to remain "in touch" and aware of one's existence being a part of a greater whole - call it nature or God. If one is detached of the greater being then chaos happens. We need to affrim our being part of the greater whole of the universe in order to have harmony. smile

Old Post Jul 11th, 2006 01:36 PM
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Great Vengeance
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Once you leave your mind, I imagine you will have a great deal more freedom. You will also cease to exist however.

Old Post Jul 12th, 2006 03:07 AM
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Storm
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Some people should rely more upon their feelings as a guide in everyday situations. Rather than just trying to figure things out in their head, following their intuitive feeling for a while and letting things unfold.


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Old Post Jan 13th, 2007 06:51 PM
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goatstradamus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Storm
Some people should rely more upon their feelings as a guide in everyday situations. Rather than just trying to figure things out in their head, following their intuitive feeling for a while and letting things unfold.


So I take it your saying that by over thinking instead of relying on your own intuition your giving power away to the inner ego mind?

I can see that.

Old Post Jan 14th, 2007 05:56 AM
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DarkRaven
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Re: Are we enslaved to our own minds?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions.....which is why there is so much suffering, addiction, dishonesty and etcetera in this world. In fact, it is the soul cause of all humanity's greatest woes.

We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

...Is this the truth?
And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?



"It has been said that the body is a slave to the mind"
--Criss Angel


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Old Post Mar 20th, 2007 03:44 PM
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tsilamini
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Do you question being a slave to the forces of atomic interactions?

Of simply being a tool to the inertia of the big bang?

No? Really? surprising....

mind=body=brain. Its provable.


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Old Post Mar 20th, 2007 10:23 PM
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Atlantis001
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I think our ego is only a experience that the real "us" is passing through, but our ego is not us. The real us is our consciousness, and it is like if that consciousness is watching a tv video which is our ego.


I think like because the ego is like a program that we must follow. We usually think we are that program and those programmed desires and wishes we have are actually us who are having by pure free will, but I think its not completely like this. We have these desires and wishes because our hormones says that we must have then.


A person who gets easily angered is a person who has a lot of activity going on in their amigdalae, a stressed person is a person that has low levels of serotonin, etc. Those persons are not angered or stressed, but their consciousness is watching a video where it is subjected to those experiences, when we watch that video we identify ourselves with the role of the main character so well that we forget that we are not that character(like in the prison experiment in the other thread).


When we watch a movie we have all the experiences that the character in the video have, it is not different than our life. If you think it is different because we canīt act and control the actions in a movie, then think about video games or virtual reality simulators. Why do we have to identify ourselves with this character but not the one of a movie or game ?


The answer does not matter, I only wanted to show that our lives are like a movie that our consciousness is watching and thinking it is the character in there.


If this is true. We donīt have to suffer because it is the character who suffers not the consciousness.


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Last edited by Atlantis001 on Mar 21st, 2007 at 03:53 AM

Old Post Mar 21st, 2007 03:45 AM
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Hydrono
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Atlantis001
I think our ego is only a experience that the real "us" is passing through, but our ego is not us. The real us is our consciousness, and it is like if that consciousness is watching a tv video which is our ego.


I think like because the ego is like a program that we must follow. We usually think we are that program and those programmed desires and wishes we have are actually us who are having by pure free will, but I think its not completely like this. We have these desires and wishes because our hormones says that we must have then.


A person who gets easily angered is a person who has a lot of activity going on in their amigdalae, a stressed person is a person that has low levels of serotonin, etc. Those persons are not angered or stressed, but their consciousness is watching a video where it is subjected to those experiences, when we watch that video we identify ourselves with the role of the main character so well that we forget that we are not that character(like in the prison experiment in the other thread).


When we watch a movie we have all the experiences that the character in the video have, it is not different than our life. If you think it is different because we canīt act and control the actions in a movie, then think about video games or virtual reality simulators. Why do we have to identify ourselves with this character but not the one of a movie or game ?


The answer does not matter, I only wanted to show that our lives are like a movie that our consciousness is watching and thinking it is the character in there.


If this is true. We donīt have to suffer because it is the character who suffers not the consciousness.


That is an interesting way of putting it…

Old Post Mar 21st, 2007 05:11 PM
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Lord Lucien
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Re: Are we enslaved to our own minds?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions.....which is why there is so much suffering, addiction, dishonesty and etcetera in this world. In fact, it is the soul cause of all humanity's greatest woes.

We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

...Is this the truth?
And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?
We are the Mind. Everything that makes you who you are, and is not part of your body, is the Mind. The Mind is what thinks, and judges, and analyzes, and critiques. We are both the slaves and slave masters. To disconnect yourself from your Mind is a paradoxical situation since you'd either die or cease to be if you did that. Weeding out your weaknesses and undesirable aspects is the key to creating a sense of fulfilling enlightenment.


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Old Post Mar 21st, 2007 09:49 PM
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lancethebrave
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I would say that we are enslaved to it, and since very few people in history have been able to control it, and because they say we in fact use only 10% of the brain, the other 90% has to be doing something, and these are the things we cannot control, this is the subconscious the part of the brain that decides with were schizophrenic, anorexic, or cant see or have ADHD it is the part of the mind that doesn't want us to have control, we eventually have the ability to suppress these things usually while we are still very little, why do you think they have imaginary friends? they have not yet suppressed them, which can be both a good and a bad thing


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2007 04:52 AM
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teampac08
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Re: Are we enslaved to our own minds?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by goatstradamus
Our minds are in control.
Instead of the mind being the tool, we are the tool.

The vast majority of the population is unaware that they are slaves to their own minds and emotions.....which is why there is so much suffering, addiction, dishonesty and etcetera in this world. In fact, it is the soul cause of all humanity's greatest woes.

We can never have a true sense fulfillment in our lives as long as our minds are either constantly in the past or in the future.

Only when we are able to separate ourselves from our minds constant analyzing and judging of everything can we grasp truth.

...Is this the truth?
And is the path to "enlightenment" learning how to observe and separate yourself from your mind and emotions?
To live in the moment?
Is there any connection in this to the meaning of life?


One is enslaved in the sense because emotions are involved. We are not entirely trapped by our mind. Our mind is what can free us or "enslave" us. It takes consideration from our mind to acknowledge such theories as yours, right? Our mind is what makes us unique from any other species. Yet through emotions and events that we cannot control in our lives we humans are connected to a flawed life. No such thing as perfection in this world. Sometimes our emotions blind us from truly thinking. Many religions who seek enlightenment arent willing to give up their minds but rather their emotions and connections to this world.


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2007 06:51 AM
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jinXed by JaNx
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i dont think it is our minds we are enslaved to. It is our current perspectives. The momment that you break free from your old way of thinking and embrace a new perspective is freedom.

Society probably has more to do with our enslavement than anything else. Our society influences our perspective without us even knowing it.


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Old Post Mar 30th, 2007 10:58 AM
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LordFear
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Essentially religions such as Buddhism attempt to teach one that if one frees his/her mind ie desires, baser instincts and overall ego and allow himself to detach himslef from the materialistic plane, one can achieve nirvana. Complete freedom from one's mind where one is actually truly in command of their mind, body and soul.

Old Post Mar 31st, 2007 01:29 AM
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