Gender: Unspecified Location: currently resides United States
i made a research about who really is the most powerful among these characters you were fighting with...
the most greatest thing to prove these is asking the Creator Himself isn't it?
there was someone who once told me that not all the information in the comics they released are yet complete..for example the Phoenix which is actually secretly known for being a part of the Divine Creation itself including the whole multi-verse but now it is revealed that the Phoenix is part of Creation in comics...
he also said that the Phoenix he created in the Marvel Comics symbolized the flames of the Holy Spirit ..or the Holy Spirit version of the Marvel Comics..can i ask who dared kill the Holy Spirit? isn't it very absurd to kill such? or in your own multi-verse? the Phoenix symbolizes Christ resurrection as well..so it will just revive anyway as if nothing happened...no more Demonic power, why not focus on the Good part?
well these are just one of the things he said
no more no less
I've got nothing to say since i don't know much about these cosmic entities & that only he knows it well...the reason i posted is to stop the flare in you topic ok? that's all...^_^
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
"the Creator Himself"?
You must be referring to Jack Kirby & Stan Lee...they created Jean Grey(Phoenix)
It's been nearly 44 years since Phoenix was born.
How much longer is "SOMEONE" going to keep us in suspence?
"secretly"?
How does "SOMEONE" know this then?
"Divine Creation itself"?
What's the difference between "Divine Creation itself" and "Creation in comics"?
Aha!... So "SOMEONE" is a "he".
So "he"/"someone" created Phoenix....which means "he"/"someone" are Jack Kirby & Stan Lee.
Which also means since you said:
"someone once told me"
You must have a personal relationship with the late Kirby or good ol' Stan.
You honor us with your presence.
When we have discussions or arguments involving these characters, our views have to be supported on panel(inside of comic books)in order to have any relevance.
"he" said "she" said holds NO weight in these forums.
The "Holy Spirit"? Yes.
Phoenix? No.
Honestly(imho) "he" didn't say anything.
Funny how your saying, "someone" ..."he"....(Stan and Kirby)
give Phoenix religious status of the most high like symbolizing the "flames of the Holy Spirit" or "Christ resurrection"....that's a funny one.
But in the comics(Marvel)they make themselves GOD himself.
I have to disagree with the jack kirby stan lee thing. I would put stan lee above kirby because stan creates the ideas and kirby puts them on paper. Without stan jack has nothing to work on. He needs stan to tell him what to make therfore making him above kirby.
What this poster is saying does actually have support on panel. Its certainly alluded too many a time in the comics. Not canon, but its suggested. The Phoenix is in real life principles Christs symbol. In the comics Phoenix is likened to Tiphereth, (Uncanny X-men 108 and 135.)
Tiphereth is Christs position on the Kaballah tree of life. (Google it) The Tiphereth position on the tree of life is where the divine force from beyond sacrifices part of its being, manifesting into reality transmuting into energy and matter so that creation might come about. ( Sound familiar? ) The sacrifice is performed the other way around as well with this manifestation sacrificing itself within the lower plane to regain its divinity beyond creation.
She used her power to ascend the X-men to a higher plane, giving them places on the cosmic tapestry
The White Hot Room is also stated on panel to be the Crown. Jean is called the White Phoenix of the Crown. The Crown in Kaballah is also referred to as Keter and is the highest symbol on the tree of life, the closest anything can get to the Unknowable God. This was suggested to be the unseen Phoenix Consciousness of New X-men. In fact in Grant Morrissons notes at the back of the New X-men Here Comes Tomorrow TPB, he said that the Phoenix Corps of the White Hot Room are like the host of heaven crossed with the Green Lantern Corps.
In Kaballah the Seraphim, the archangels of the host are stated to be those beings closest to God and they are sent by him into creation to right any wrongs with creation, to cleanse and heal creation with a purifying fire. (The judgement of the Phoenix? To burn away that which doesn’t work?) On top of that the Seraphim were said to be fire emblazoned humanoids.
On the tree of life that maps out Gods emanation points in and throughout creation , the path between Keter (the top of the tree) and Tiphereth (heart and soul of creation) is called the the flight of the Phoenix.
So all in all there are allusions to Phoenix being linked directly to the supreme being, however these allusions have yet to be outrightly stated so they are as yet not canon.
I did not bother to read the entire argument. Nor do I care, what it was about.
Lets face the facts, the role the Phoenix and how stands up to the rest of the cosmic’s seems confusing.
I blame it on the creative disagreement, due to several writers interpretation. It also seems that the Phoenix is a near X-Men Cosmic character exclusive. To the point ware X-Men mythos are not ported over to the rest of Marvel department (Fantastic Four, Avengers etc…)
Add on the fact that Marvel does not really keep track of what the hell they are doing. And seem to add on several different interpretation of what it means to be Cosmic/God/Omnipotent. Let alone the many retcons, and one time power ups ware just about every popular character seems to get at one point in their carrier.
However, (getting back on track) the fact that we see more then one phoenix exist at once through out several realities is dead give away. That the Phoenix Force in a multiversal scale Cosmic. Maybe be not in every single reality, but more then one (that’s for sure).
Your probably right. But I am going to be vary disappointed if it turns out to be mostly Nu Uh vs. Uh Hu debate. (Circular logic really kills the topic).
The problem is that Pheonix's mythology contradicts the mythos of Galactus, LT, and the other cosmics. Marvel has a problem keeping its stories straight. But then again, since when is that new ?
We had Cosmic Cube, Classic Beyonder, Infinity Gauntlet, Heart of the Infinity, etc.
I have always seen Pheonix as a powerhouse. And in my book, she qualifies as one.
KMC Community Forums
Jul 9th, 2006 08:16 PM
