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What makes the new movies better than old ones?
Started by: Darth Grathius

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queeq
Chaos

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by sapphiremouse
lack good effects?? during the time of filming in the 70's half or 3/4 of all the effects in starwars was totally new....they were constantly inventing new ways for special effects and film making. think alot of people are forgettin this or just dont know. so for the time period that was cutting edge technology. you cant compare movies that were made +20 years later to the originals and say the effects sucked.


Most of them still work though.... just check out other sci-fi movies of the time (star Trek the movie, Tron, Battlestar GAlactica), SW rules, man.


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Old Post Aug 26th, 2006 09:50 PM
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sapphiremouse
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ya i know.....im tryin to say alot of people or kids that have grown up with starwars episodes 1,2,3. They saying that episodes 4,5,6 totally suck in special affects. See everyone has their opinion about this but if you only grew up in the 90's so to speak. No one could have any kind of appreciation of what Lucas and his team accomplished back in the 70's in terms of NEW special affects.

Old Post Aug 28th, 2006 02:48 AM
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C-3POTheClever
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Re: What makes the new movies better than old ones?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Grathius
I was born after the original star wars movies came out and after growing up in the day and age of modern Hollywoo the original movies seem to be much worse than eps. 1,2, and 3. Please explain to me why 4,5, and 6 are so much better. Besides Hayden Christianson.

I don't understand. You've said what makes the newer ones better, but you've also said, what makes 4, 5 & 6 better so what do you mean?

Old Post Feb 12th, 2012 09:14 PM
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focus4chumps
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that post is almost 6 years old. i doubt you'll get an answer, brah.


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Old Post Feb 12th, 2012 11:14 PM
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C-3POTheClever
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by focus4chumps
that post is almost 6 years old. i doubt you'll get an answer, brah.
LOL

Old Post Feb 12th, 2012 11:32 PM
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queeq
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laughing out loud


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Old Post Feb 13th, 2012 08:41 PM
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Lord Stark
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Generic Hero
1) Lack of a strong villain. Unlike the OT, where Vader was the man to fear for the entire trilogy, the PT had no strong villain figure. Palpatine just sat in the background scheming and plotting never really doing anything evil until halfway through RotS. Every time we meet a strong villain character (Maul, Dooku, Grevious), they die very quickly and we never get to a point where they could be recognized and feared. If Lucas had let Maul escape after he killed Qui-Gon instead of being killed, then had him lead the seperatists in Episode II before finally being killed by Obi-Wan in Episode III, things would have been a lot better on that front. Or perhaps introducing Darth Tyranus in TPM (Which would have been cool, since he trained Qui-Gon).

2) Lack of a strong group dynamic. In the OT, Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Lando, R2 and Threepio all knew and interacted with each other in various ways. TPM was able to capture this feeling with Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padme, R2 and Jar Jar, but it completely dissapeared after that. It became a "Chain" as opposed to a "net." Padme interacted only with Anakin (which made her seem somewhat like a 5th wheel), who interacted only with her and Obi-Wan, who interacted only with Anakin and Yoda/Mace. See? No group, there. It really hurt the feel and cohesion of the movie. Instead of watching seperate parts of one story that weaved through each other from time to time, it felt like we were watching several completely seperate stories that coalesced into one at the very end.

3) Lack of a strong lead actor and lead actress. Covered above.

4) Lack of beliavability. Anakin's fall to the dark side was WAAAY too rushed. It just felt like "OK, just killed my master in a spur of the moment event. Guess I'm evil now, so I'll go and slaughter everyone I ever knew and loved. I'll even kill the kids so I seem even more evil. Oh... maybe I should be a bit remorseful too, so I guess I'll go off and cry for a bit."

5) Lack of strong space battles. TPM's space battle wasn't bad, but it didn't capture the epic feeling of either of the Death Star Battles. RotS's space scene was ho-hum at best. The whole thing felt like it was on rails a la Starfox.

6) Narrow-view of the Star Wars universe. Again, aside from TPM, the entire series is focused almost entirely on the Jedi and their way of life. In the OT, we had a smuggler, a rebel leader, a Jedi and an business man. Each of these gave us a seperate view of the galaxy. In the PT, it really just felt like you were following an upper-class noble around and had no chance to get a feel for some of the "cooler" parts of the galaxy like the Mos Eisley cantina.

7) We knew the story already. This really couldn't be helped, but it did hurt the movies.

8) Lacked the epic feeling of the OT. In the Battle of Yavin, the fate of the Rebellion was in the hands of a handful of rebel pilots hurtling towards the seemingly-unstoppable might of the Death Star. At the Battle of Endor, the destiny of the entire Galaxy sat on a razors edge as the forces of good and evil clashed in a final battle of titanic proportions. There were no such instances in the PT. Just a sudden takeover by the Empire and a slaughter of the Jedi. Maybe if the Republic had at least put up a fight before it got taken over, things would have been better.


I agree with this. The thing about the PT is that, while I get the whole theme of democracy dying with thunderous applause, it would have been nice if the Jedi Order died against the Sith Empire and Vader and Sidious were all that was left of the Sith after the war. It would have set the stage for the OT in an awesome light.


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Old Post Feb 16th, 2012 11:21 AM
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queeq
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There is no Sith Empire... only two there are...


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Old Post Feb 16th, 2012 12:07 PM
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C-3POTheClever
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
There is no Sith Empire... only two there are...

I thought you said we weren't allowed to post on old topis :-S
And why not anyway?

Old Post Feb 16th, 2012 12:45 PM
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queeq
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But I am... I AM THE MODERATOR WOOOHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... POWEERRRRR .... UNLIMITED POWEEERRRRRRRRRRRR...

Oh sorry... wink


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Old Post Feb 16th, 2012 03:36 PM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Generic Hero
1) Lack of a strong villain. Unlike the OT, where Vader was the man to fear for the entire trilogy, the PT had no strong villain figure. Palpatine just sat in the background scheming and plotting never really doing anything evil until halfway through RotS. Every time we meet a strong villain character (Maul, Dooku, Grevious), they die very quickly and we never get to a point where they could be recognized and feared. If Lucas had let Maul escape after he killed Qui-Gon instead of being killed, then had him lead the seperatists in Episode II before finally being killed by Obi-Wan in Episode III, things would have been a lot better on that front. Or perhaps introducing Darth Tyranus in TPM (Which would have been cool, since he trained Qui-Gon).

2) Lack of a strong group dynamic. In the OT, Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Lando, R2 and Threepio all knew and interacted with each other in various ways. TPM was able to capture this feeling with Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padme, R2 and Jar Jar, but it completely dissapeared after that. It became a "Chain" as opposed to a "net." Padme interacted only with Anakin (which made her seem somewhat like a 5th wheel), who interacted only with her and Obi-Wan, who interacted only with Anakin and Yoda/Mace. See? No group, there. It really hurt the feel and cohesion of the movie. Instead of watching seperate parts of one story that weaved through each other from time to time, it felt like we were watching several completely seperate stories that coalesced into one at the very end.

3) Lack of a strong lead actor and lead actress. Covered above.

4) Lack of beliavability. Anakin's fall to the dark side was WAAAY too rushed. It just felt like "OK, just killed my master in a spur of the moment event. Guess I'm evil now, so I'll go and slaughter everyone I ever knew and loved. I'll even kill the kids so I seem even more evil. Oh... maybe I should be a bit remorseful too, so I guess I'll go off and cry for a bit."

5) Lack of strong space battles. TPM's space battle wasn't bad, but it didn't capture the epic feeling of either of the Death Star Battles. RotS's space scene was ho-hum at best. The whole thing felt like it was on rails a la Starfox.

6) Narrow-view of the Star Wars universe. Again, aside from TPM, the entire series is focused almost entirely on the Jedi and their way of life. In the OT, we had a smuggler, a rebel leader, a Jedi and an business man. Each of these gave us a seperate view of the galaxy. In the PT, it really just felt like you were following an upper-class noble around and had no chance to get a feel for some of the "cooler" parts of the galaxy like the Mos Eisley cantina.

7) We knew the story already. This really couldn't be helped, but it did hurt the movies.

8) Lacked the epic feeling of the OT. In the Battle of Yavin, the fate of the Rebellion was in the hands of a handful of rebel pilots hurtling towards the seemingly-unstoppable might of the Death Star. At the Battle of Endor, the destiny of the entire Galaxy sat on a razors edge as the forces of good and evil clashed in a final battle of titanic proportions. There were no such instances in the PT. Just a sudden takeover by the Empire and a slaughter of the Jedi. Maybe if the Republic had at least put up a fight before it got taken over, things would have been better.


Like the other guy i agree with this some what. I do believe Maul should of survived till the begining of EP3 where anakin can kill him. But at the end of EP1 obiwan in order to beat maul gave into the darkside but then pulls himself back (like Luke in ROTJ) and he could of just kicked Maul down the shaft. where he would survive.
Anakin should of been about 18 when they found him, then do the whole thing with he's too old etc. obi wan sides with quigon that anakin should be trained and when quigon dies he trains him. Show more interaction with anakin and obiwan with anakin being held back. i don't think they would even need padme dying as a motivation for him to turn the emperor could just do that on his own and turn him cause he does have evil in him. then EP3 we could have vader hunt down and destroy most the jedis With help from Boba Fett (no disintigrations) with the final battle between obiwan and vader as in ep3. padme and anakin can still get married but he cuts the connection as soon as he turns. padme gives birth but anakin has NO knowledge she is even pregnant. luke is taken to tatooine and leia goes to Alderan with padme where sometime between ep3 and ep4 she dies, when leia is 2-4.

I think Lucas did the prequels the way he did them just so he could make the clone wars cartoon and CGI show and also the live action TV show (if we ever see it)


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Old Post Feb 16th, 2012 07:51 PM
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C-3POTheClever
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by darthmaul1
Like the other guy i agree with this some what. I do believe Maul should of survived till the begining of EP3 where anakin can kill him. But at the end of EP1 obiwan in order to beat maul gave into the darkside but then pulls himself back (like Luke in ROTJ) and he could of just kicked Maul down the shaft. where he would survive.
Anakin should of been about 18 when they found him, then do the whole thing with he's too old etc. obi wan sides with quigon that anakin should be trained and when quigon dies he trains him. Show more interaction with anakin and obiwan with anakin being held back. i don't think they would even need padme dying as a motivation for him to turn the emperor could just do that on his own and turn him cause he does have evil in him. then EP3 we could have vader hunt down and destroy most the jedis With help from Boba Fett (no disintigrations) with the final battle between obiwan and vader as in ep3. padme and anakin can still get married but he cuts the connection as soon as he turns. padme gives birth but anakin has NO knowledge she is even pregnant. luke is taken to tatooine and leia goes to Alderan with padme where sometime between ep3 and ep4 she dies, when leia is 2-4.

I think Lucas did the prequels the way he did them just so he could make the clone wars cartoon and CGI show and also the live action TV show (if we ever see it)

I think you've got some good points in there. I certainly agree on Leis staying with Padme. And I think the "He's too old thing" would make far more sence if he was about 18 + I think it as well as soime of the other things that you mentioned would fit better with what we hear or see in the OT.

Old Post Feb 16th, 2012 09:21 PM
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queeq
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But the thing is: Lucas changed his mind about a lot of things while making the PT. And he cannot fully hide that from the OT.


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Old Post Feb 17th, 2012 08:48 AM
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darthmaul1
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
But the thing is: Lucas changed his mind about a lot of things while making the PT. And he cannot fully hide that from the OT.


You mean because somethings said in the OT don't jive with the PT?
I think this is the case because even though Lucas is the creator he does NOT know all the ins and outs of his own creation. There is a clip of Seth Mcfarlane invterviewing Lucas about certain things in the OT and Seth humms a few notes from the snow battle on hoth (which to most fans would be easy to pick out.) Lucas identified it as the throne room scene in EP IV!


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Old Post Feb 17th, 2012 02:45 PM
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queeq
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Well, those are little details.

My point is, Lucas tends to say he always had the entire saga in his head for like ever... We all know this isn't true. His own authorised Making Of.. books explain that. For instance, they didn't decide until developing ESB that Vader was Luke's father.

But cleary Lucas changed his mind about a lot of things since making the OT. He wanted things to be different and had to rather forcefully make that match the OT.


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Old Post Feb 18th, 2012 11:47 AM
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C-3POTheClever
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by queeq
Well, those are little details.

My point is, Lucas tends to say he always had the entire saga in his head for like ever... We all know this isn't true. His own authorised Making Of.. books explain that. For instance, they didn't decide until developing ESB that Vader was Lucas's father.

But cleary Lucas changed his mind about a lot of things since making the OT. He wanted things to be different and had to rather forcefully make that match the OT.

Darth Vader is Lucas's father? That explains why Lucas makes so many changes. BTW, seriously now; I don't really have a problem with the changes, but I just like to take the micky, coz so many people don't. Anyway, how do you know he hadn't decided Vader was Lukes father? When Obi Wan came to tell Luke how his father died, he looked quite un-comfertibal before he told him. That makes more sence if his father was Vader.

Old Post Feb 18th, 2012 12:43 PM
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queeq
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Read The Making of The Empire Strikes Back. It says it all. This is an authorized book by Lucasfilm, for which the Lucasfilm Archives have been carefully examined. It has very interesting tidbits... like Lucas toying with the idea of a prophecy, of Luke being the chosen one.

Since ESB was the second act of a three act story, they needed a twist. The uncomfortable look of OB1 is just now so interpreted and it works great.

On the other hand, if you have to tell a kid his dad was killed by your own apprentice whom in your arrigance you failed to train well... that would definitely make you feel uncomfortable, I'd say.

And taking the mickey is great. But seriously, The MAking of Star Wars and The Making of ESB (and prolly The Making of ROTJ next year) are great and wonderful books. Coffee table size, great pictures and an honest account of the most ground breaking movie series of all time. They're not cheap but they should be standard reading material for every SW fan. It kinda makes you rise above all the silly opinions and above Lucas comments these days how things went. The books sometimes tell a slightly different story.


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Old Post Feb 18th, 2012 02:29 PM
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darthmaul1
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When lucas started the PT he should of employed a group of fan boys like us so at least everything would of fit together. The only thing I don't think they could of prevented would be showing that Darth vader I Luke and leias father. So the ep5 surprise would be gone no matter what u do.


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Old Post Feb 20th, 2012 07:21 PM
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queeq
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No fanboys... he should have employed one or two great script writers.


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2012 09:27 AM
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