Read that back to yourself and then realise how stupid that sounds. Knowing what the label says matters none if you don't know what you're labelling. He doesn't, as I proved with that "'core" debacle.
You seem to come from a society where everything is opinion and facts don't exists. Facts can't be denied, sensibly. To deny a fact is to render your debate useless.
That said, you don't know anything about genres, so either drop something worthwhile or stop disrupting the thread.
For the convenience of who? Nobody else here is perceptive enough to know that they are metal, and seeing as it's just me, you and Bardiel, what do you think that means?
I'm not here to spoonfeed you, either find it or be quiet.
Of what, you making yourself look stupid? See: Any post you've made thus far.
Predictable answer. Because, my posts are just oozing with idiocy and yours obviously aren't.
We both know that they weren't jokes, though, don't we? We both know, and can see as much from your comment, that you said something very explicitly and then changed your tune.
Must I repeat myself? I'm not as heated about this as you. I ca make jokes. Hell, when I said "Genre Nazi" we weren't even in this. If you knew me, you'd know I like to make little joking comments on the internet and lampoon my behavior. They were both jokes and I think everyone else watching this thread knows so. If I were totally serious, I wouldn't have put that adorable little smiley next it.
I am right on this particular subject. How does that equate to me thinking I know everything? I know what I need to know to be right in this debate.
It doesn't matter if the world is against me (it isn't, by the way), the opposite, infact. If a million Britney Spears fans argued against you, just you, that she was a better guitarist than Jimi Hendrix, would they be right? No, because they're actually wrong. Why? Because of fact.
Yes, but we could comapre Jimi Hendrix with Britney Spears and that debat would easily be solved. However, all you seem to be is finding every little tidbit in my sentences to try to use them against me and change their meaning, when even an elementary schooler with an internet connection could easily tell when I'm kidding and when I'm not.
Immersion a.k.a loving something a lot, and getting really into it. Yes, that's what I said.
I've done both to massive extremes, which is why I'm making you look stupid in this thread, which is why you are the one who has no other debate besides "I've immersed myself in it." and "The world is against you.".
Immersion is experince. You can love Football a lot, but you wouldn't have to play football. You wouldn't have been fully immersed in that "Football Experience."
Another MySpace teen comment. "If you'd known, you'd not say that", well guess what? I do, and I am. Puts your little theory out the window.
Yeah, but I'm serious. You haven't even listened to Folk Metal, yet you're simply denouncing it like that. And once again the majority will agree with me. But, of course you are the only one who's right!
Which is basically just really heavy metal that people like to get high to. Why does it need a new genre because of what people do when they listen to it? I like riding a bike to Audioslave, Audioslave must be Biking Rock.
I agreed with you on this. You just love arguing, don't you?
how is hawthorne metal, answer that, or be quiet. They are influenced by Weezer did you know that? is weezer metal? if anything i'd call Hawthorne Emo(core)/Pop Punk...or Pop Rock?
AND
repost: Fans refer to Horse The Band as Nintendocore. Just like fans refer to 'Sunn0' as 'Doom Metal'
Basically the debate between me and you(AC) is about your opinion. Your opinion is that you do not recognize certain genres and labels. THAT being an opinion, means there's no fact behind your argument, you lose. Grindcore and Metalcore are officially recognized. Just because you do not recognize them doesnt mean others do the same is disregard that (sub)genre.
Let me rephrase so as to make sure it copes with your seemingly minute intellect. The knowledge of anything other than musical genres does not necessarily apply in this debate. If Bardiel didn't know anything, it shouldn't matter unless included in that anything is musical genres.
Would you prefer if I did not think for myself, therefore rendering my creative mind useless next to the idiots we have governing the world's many nations? Would you prefer that I not ponder the reason of anything, and just accept what other people have stated as fact? If people did not do as I do, then most likely our technology would've never made it to the point where the two of us could have this conversation, however unfriendly it may be, on a bulletin board website; an example of my statement is that in the past it was stated as fact that no one could ever talk instantaneously to a person over a long distance, but Alexander Graham Bell did not believe that "fact" and eventually invented the telephone.
If you consider my posts so disrupting, then just ignore them, and I may go away.
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Last edited by KingDubya on Jul 19th, 2006 at 10:21 PM
Precisely. That's the first correct answer you've given since we've been in this debate.
You are clearly as into it as I am. Into it meaning that we both post and we both reply, right? Why do you assume I am more into it than you, because I called you an idiot? I called you one because I believe you are.
How? By saying and proving that...? Go on, complete the puzzle.
Finally you start to frustratingly weave insults in your posts, a sign of dwindling faith, for sure.
I'm not trying hard to find the inaccuracies and inconsistency in your posts, it's glaring at me everytime you use your keyboard.
Yes, that's exactly what I said.
So what you are saying or proposing is; You feel you have the right to speak on how genres are specifically labelled despite not knowing about them, but just loving them? That's very, incredible silly of you, boy.
You can love metal all you want, Bardiel, but the fact of the matter is that everytime you post, your words and expressions do not tell a similar tale. You say you know things, but you don't prove it, nor do you show it. I do, I have and I shall continue to. Which is why I'm known on this board for knowing my shit, you don't.
Now you're really getting desperate, telling me what I have and haven't listened to. Tsk tsk, you disappoint me, I expected better than this.
It doesn't matter if the majority agree with you or not, man. What part about that are you not getting? The majority says that Britney Spears is better than Metallica, is it truer? No, so stop talking from sheer desperation and start making sense. Everything you post exposes you for what you are; A know nothing scenester.
I said it before and I will say it again, you cretin; I explained how they are metal many times, a page or so back, to Bardiel. If you are too lazy than to go and read, then I refuse to spoonfeed you. Moreover, I have deduced that you refuse to accept it, so I won't continue to waste time on you. I'll allow you to hold your incorrect opinion.
Furthermore, what do Weezer have to do with this? They're a rock band; They call themselves such and are known as a rock band. Influencing a band doesn't mean that band will sound like you. Go look up the definition.
No, you keep getting it wrong. I don't recognise the LABELS, not the genres, the LABELS. I acknowledge that the genre you call "metalcore" exists, I just don't acknowledge the term "metalcore". Is that clear enough, or would crayon be more appropriate?
It does, because to know about music genres is to know labels, and to credibly know how to apply them you must also know the music you are applying them to.
He doesn't, hence why he said Rage Against the Machine are part rapcore, because he's an idiot.
Let me explain something to you, then. Facts cannot be disagreed with, ok? The fact that Alex Bell disproved something means that whatever he disproved, wasn't actually a fact. We know this because it was able to be disproved, see?
You cannot disprove that staying underwater without breathing apparatus means you will drown, it's a fact.
So on that note:
Either post something regarding the topic, as Bardiel and Silverstein are doing, or I will report you. It's your choice, pal. Get warned and have to stop, or stop without a warning.
then simply replace the word genre with LABEL. and what is so wrong with _______core, it would be the same as saying _____metal, death metal, etc. you not acknowledging metalcore is your own opinion, i should just stop now shouldnt i what would you call this Metalcore, and Grindcore. Metal-hardcore? lol
please oh please in crayon. How about some construnction paper while you're at it. Who knows, you could draw it out, when we go hxc dancing in your mother's basement.
No, this is where you confuse yourself. The variations of metal such as black metal and death metal have factual difference, technical differences in the way the instruments are played. It's a fact, there are specific parts dividing them, as I have proven.
If you listen to a "metalcore" band, the only thing people have to describe it is a sound. People say "It sounds kind of harder", or what not. It's just harder metal, there's no factual, technical difference to any other kind of metal. The instruments are not played differently in "metalcore" than they are in basic metal bands. That's where you get it wrong, that's where it becomes fact and not opinion.
And there are probably many who also think that Rage Against the Machine is rapcore. I am among them, so I guess you consider me an idiot as well.
Yes, that is a solid fact, and Bell did disprove what was thought to be a solid fact. There are certain facts that cannot be proven wrong, but there are still plenty that are sure to be thrown out in due time, such as your "fact" that Hawthorne Heights is metal, which I have yet to research and post my opinion on the matter.
I will post something relevant in my next post. First I must find samples of Hawthorne Heights' music so I can listen to it. Then, I will post my opinion and how it is based, if it will make you happy.
No, you don't get it, you idiot. THINKING something is a fact, and it actually being one, are two different things. People thought it was a fact that the Earth was flat, but they were wrong, weren't they? They were always wrong. They THOUGHT it was a fact, it wasn't actually a fact.
You can research all you want, we all know that you'll come back and side with your friends like the sheep you are, because you don't know anything about genres and how to differentiate between them.
Lovely stuff. I look forward to reading how much you agree with your friends, however I will use the fact against you that previously was brought to light; You saying you don't know anything about this. So don't be offended if I laugh at you.
"Don't drag me into this argument, for even though I love music, I don't know jack about its genres.".
Metalcore is not harder metal, Metal tends to be more artistic somewhat (classic oldies metal), i think it is influenced by metal, but it IS NOT metal.
metalcore has technical differences like: Hardcore elements such as, Breakdowns, and other elements like Throat and Scream Vocals, Slow Heavy Riffs, & Guitars Tuned very low.
Finally you prove my point; You have no idea what you are saying.
Everything you named can be found in most genres of ordinary metal. Breakdowns are what make "metalcore" different to metal? Hahahahaha. Possibly funnier than Bardiel's Rage/Rapcore comment. Do you know what a breakdown is? Metallica were doing that, Slayer were doing that, many metal bands were using breakdowns long before most of these "metalcore" bands even existed, or were even born. A breakdown is simply when all instruments stop or are faded out, bar one, or all the instruments cut out and only the vocalist acts. Bands have been doing that for almost as long as there has been music.
Why do you think it's called "metalcore"? Because it's metal, just slightly different, so the kids add "'core".
Just like there are many things that we today consider fact, that could probably be disproved in the next few years.
First of all, I don't much like it when my personality is compared to that of a sheep, which I'm guessing you are using to say I am meek. Yes, I can be shy and slow to act at times, but I am not afraid to disagree with my friends, nor agree with my opponents. And even though I did say that "I don't know jack about (music's) genres", I believe that even I have the right to voice my opinion of what a certain band's music can be classified as.
Yes, I did say that I know little to nothing about the classifications of music, but that does not mean that I can't voice my opinion, does it? And I won't be offended in the least if you laugh at me.
Now, to contribute to the main debate at hand:
In my personal opinion, after listening to various samples of Hawthorne Heights' music through http://www.mp3.com, I have to say that their music seems to be something inbetween what the two of you are saying. The style that the vocalists sing the lyrics in is similar to that of many bands that are considered emo. Yet, the instrumental breaks are in a similar style to metal, and they have the rasping screams that litter many metal songs. So, I guess I agree with both of you, in one way or another.
No, you don't get it do you? If someone rips your heart out, you die. That's a fact, right? It's a fact because it cannot be disputed. That's what a fact is, you see. Anything else is simply not a fact.
If there are beliefs held as fact today that are later disproven, then they were never facts anyway, e.g: "I believe the Earth is flat!". They believed it was a fact, but the Earth has never, ever been flat. So they were wrong to believe it as a fact. Facts can never be disproven.
I don't particularly like a lot of things, but shit happens.
You do, just don't expect it to be taken seriously at all by anyone with sense. You said yourself that you have no clue.
Good, because judging by your little fact logic, I'm in for a good laugh.
You didn't go with the herd, you just sat on the fence. I'm semi-impressed (not really).
They are CONSIDERED emo, but they are factually not emo. Not by what emo actually is, as dictated by musical research and history. Factually, they are also a metal band, as proven by research and insight.
I think there is a difference between Classic Metal and Metalcore. Kids or MUSICIANS and LISTENERS made it into Metalcore because it was a fusion of metal annnnndddd hardcore. 2 genres into a hybrid, that hybrid genre needs a label since it is different to some people, if it was the same there would be no need for a new label/name, METALCORE. Unless what? Hardcore is also apparently Metal??? and then Metal is actually another genre???everything came from one thing blah blah big bang, im not gonna go 100 yrs into the past to discuss Metalcore
It doesn't need a label, that's the problem. You think it needs one, it doesn't, you WANT to give it one. You don't need it to be called "metalcore" so you can listen to it and enjoy it do you?
The fact of the matter is, you f*cked your whole debate up with your last post. You tried foolishly to list distinctions in "metalcore" and failed, now you're jabbering on about nothing, at least you tried.
"Breakdowns are what make it different.". Haha, nice one.
hey AC. why, as someone who doesn't really like the use of genres to pigeon-hole bands and there music, are you always at the centre of every debate when genres are brought up
if people wrongly or idiotically want to start making up bizarre mixes of genres...just let them...because when it comes down to it, it doesn't change the music they try to catagorise anyway
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Jul 19th, 2006 10:03 PM
