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Elizabeth Wants Jack Badly!
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LovelyOne
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba

Ok I seriously cant be assed to find everything you have said. Its getting late here

What is it that I left unresolved?

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 01:48 AM
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Quincy
Debaser

Gender: Male
Location: Through The Looking Glass

quote: (post)
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Oh Quincy - you have made this all so much more interesting. I am laughing reading all this stuff. it'a all kind of funny isnt'- but I guess we will have to wait until next May to see who gets the last laugh. If you are right and Liz and Will do get together -then I guess I will forever be watching Pirates 2 over and over and fantasising what could have been.


If I'm wrong, I'll Pull a Jackie-Boy and jump into the Krakken.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
1/You say she is afraid of pirates..when the WHOLE movie was one massive hint that she is turning into one..even the blooming trailor and production posters hint it.


I said she "was" afraid of pirates. Again, I must repeat myself.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Characters dont stay the same as a story progresses..otherwise its not a story. Whats the point in telling a story if the characters dont develop? you tell me one story where a character doesn't develop and then I will believe what you say about her not liking pirates.


Let her develop all she wants. If a character develops, that does not mean that they must find a new love big grin

quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
This is all the proof you need that she is turning into a pirate: THE ENDING SCENE was a result of everything she was craving to do from the moment Will left her in the cell..which was to do something selfish and bad with Jack..to feel like a pirate.


Go ahead. I don't care if she turns into a pirate. You seem to be forgetting what this whole debate is about. I am trying to explain why jack and Liz should not and will not end up together. Heck a hot pirate is cool.

[/B][/QUOTE] 2. You seem to think that Will is better suited to what liz really wants when its clearly not the case. The whole point in this movie was to seperate them so that Liz would develop as a character, into a free spirited character. Also there is the proof that these two are not working out together. The director himself said in an interview that he is basically making Will and Liz relationship mirror what happened to Davy Jones and his fiance, Which was "davy lost his love who became wild and untamable as the sea" This movie has shown us that Liz's character has developed in a similar way. And yes she is becomeing something that Will didnt fall for.[/B][/QUOTE]

Fine. I reallly really don't care that they're relationship will mirror davy jones and his loves relationship.

That has nothing to do with her and Jack. They might feel a bit of attraction, heck she is turning more pirate like by the minute - but Will and Liz will end up together. Argue with me over love with pirates if you want I guess...but I've already agreed with you.

Please get back on track with the Jack and Elizabeth thing.


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Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 01:50 AM
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LovelyOne
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba

quote: (post)
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Quincy - that's what being a pirate is all about - putting your own selfish needs before others. That's what she does when she chains him to the mast. She has become a pirate. Why else would they have Johnny DEpp whisper "Pirate." But remeber Jack isn't a typical pirate. That's why he lost the Black Pearl to Barboorsa - deep down inside he is a good man. At times he does things that are selfish and puts others at risk - but then, don't we all at times...And to say that LovelyOne or no one else, for that matter backs up their theories. You are so wrong. How many times must we point out all of the metaphors, symbolisms, conversations, innuendos, etc that go on for you to get that everything that happens in Pirates 2 is leading up to the Kiss and the underlying theme that Elizabeth has become a Pirate and her most deepest desire is Jack... Why would they emphazise the compass so much saying that "it points to what you most desire, what your heart wants most."? Kind of ironic, don't you think, after pointing that out - there are three times in the movie when Lizzie holds the compass it points to Jack. The reason she looks agitated is because she knows that she is attracted to Jack, she trying to surpress it because she knows she shouldn't have these feelings - so she is angry that the Compass is telling her the truth.


Thanks.. rolling on floor laughing

I have explained these things so many times now I'm starting to just say that they are there instead of backing them up. It gets tiering when you kp doing it over and over.

Quincy..read through the other threads where we have already disussed all this stuff umpteen times already.

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 01:53 AM
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Quincy
Debaser

Gender: Male
Location: Through The Looking Glass

quote: (post)
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Quincy - that's what being a pirate is all about - putting your own selfish needs before others. That's what she does when she chains him to the mast. She has become a pirate. Why else would they have Johnny DEpp whisper "Pirate." But remeber Jack isn't a typical pirate. That's why he lost the Black Pearl to Barboorsa - deep down inside he is a good man. At times he does things that are selfish and puts others at risk - but then, don't we all at times...And to say that LovelyOne or no one else, for that matter backs up their theories. You are so wrong. How many times must we point out all of the metaphors, symbolisms, conversations, innuendos, etc that go on for you to get that everything that happens in Pirates 2 is leading up to the Kiss.


Aw my god you guys are giving me a head-ache. I know what a pirate is. Thanks for that?

Again - I agree with the whole "she's a pirate thing!" And AGAIN I REPEAT MYSELF - It has nothing to do with her love for "Jack"See my previous post. We are talking about Jack/Will/Elizabeth.

Why is everyone getting pissed off at me? I'm sorry "lovethemtigers" but I really don't think you guys have "pointed out all of your theories and stuff." Sweet job on that by the way. You have given me 2 metaphors. That's it. And I have already addressed them. I was addressing the fact that your "evidence" is unmatched by mine.

Fangirls are crazy.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by blackpearl44
Wow.................just..................just wow...........


Sweet...addition......to the debate. Look Black Pearl, I haven't addressed you at all. Please don't insult and mock me. It's not very nice.
quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Ok I seriously cant be assed to find everything you have said. Its getting late here


I can say the same about this:
quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Quincy..read through the other threads where we have already disussed all this stuff umpteen times already.
Thanks.. rolling on floor laughing

quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne I have explained these things so many times now I'm starting to just say that they are there instead of backing them up. It gets tiering when you kp doing it over and over.. [/B]


What do I keep doing over and over again? Girls, please just point things out.


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Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 01:59 AM
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katelovespirate
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
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Awe Quincy, we wouldnt be here if we knew what was going to happen. let us have our fun, seriously buddy. i'm actually sort of glad you are here, because no one has disagreed with us for a while... smile it gives us something to debate about anyways.

Our main theories have centered around character development.... Liz's character developing forwards, while Will has been more and more distracted by his dad. Also, little metaphors can be added like the Jack Hat metaphor (Liz is wearing a jack-ish hat for most of the second film, symbolizing the part of him thats missing, while in tortuga he tries on multiple hats, not finding one he likes... etc. LovelyOne puts it better). We have also compared it to various other trilogies (star wars, for example, also matrix, x-men, etc) where the girl ends up with the bad boy. We have discussed character nuances like the kiss scene over and over, deciding the curiosity scene makes it clear that liz is becoming a pirate, while Will might not be... gosh i am forgetting tons of stuff, but basically, we all think Jack is the main character and should get the girl.
As i said before, we dont know what will happen. we are like scientists discusssing global warming or something. so lets play nice and enjoy a great movie together, whatever we believe, okay? XOXOXO smile

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 02:04 AM
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brokenxxheart14
don't touch my dirt

Gender: Female
Location: United States

its kinda funny cus w/e we say its not gonna change ur mind and w/e u say its not gonna change our minds.....this could go on foreverrr wacko


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Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 02:05 AM
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LovelyOne
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
If I'm wrong, I'll Pull a Jackie-Boy and jump into the Krakken.



I said she "was" afraid of pirates. Again, I must repeat myself.



Let her develop all she wants. If a character develops, that does not mean that they must find a new love big grin



Go ahead. I don't care if she turns into a pirate. You seem to be forgetting what this whole debate is about. I am trying to explain why jack and Liz should not and will not end up together. Heck a hot pirate is cool.

2. You seem to think that Will is better suited to what liz really wants when its clearly not the case. The whole point in this movie was to seperate them so that Liz would develop as a character, into a free spirited character. Also there is the proof that these two are not working out together. The director himself said in an interview that he is basically making Will and Liz relationship mirror what happened to Davy Jones and his fiance, Which was "davy lost his love who became wild and untamable as the sea" This movie has shown us that Liz's character has developed in a similar way. And yes she is becomeing something that Will didnt fall for.[/B][/QUOTE]

Fine. I reallly really don't care that they're relationship will mirror davy jones and his loves relationship.

That has nothing to do with her and Jack. They might feel a bit of attraction, heck she is turning more pirate like by the minute - but Will and Liz will end up together. Argue with me over love with pirates if you want I guess...but I've already agreed with you.

Please get back on track with the Jack and Elizabeth thing. [/B][/QUOTE]

---------------------------------------------

there wouldn't have been such an emphasis on Jack/Liz on screen chemistry in this movie if it wasnt going to play a MASSIVE part in the next. This entire movie - the start - the middle - the finish was all about Liz changing..Her character development was the single most important factor to the movie because it lead to the massive twist at the end.

The hints that she is faling for jack are
The compass pointing to him 3 times
The constant denial she's in over that fact
The fact that she was slowly beginning to love the thought of being with Jack. It happened in 2 moments
1. The sexual suggestion scene. She pretends to be all disgusted but secretly goes off and smiles.
2. The curiosity scene. She is saying she resembles one thing but her actions tell different. Jack is a pirate..she knows it..She knew he was about to kiss her despite the fact that he is a good man. When JAck pulled away (due to the black spot) you can see how dissapointed she is..heck she even pouts there...she didnt like the thought of not getting the kiss.
The fact the wedding looked doomed from the offset (weather looked like a funeral more than anything)
Will see's her before the wedding (BAD LUCK usually means the wedding wont ever happen)
She resembles a bird in a cage during the scene where she is with will at the beginning. symbolizes that married life will be very restricted
there are many more..you want me to discuss them? Or you could save me the effort and actually read the posts I have made in the past about everything I am saying.

The hat one actually symbolized that Jack wants Liz..also the compass with him did too.

The movie is less about Jack and his denial..its all about Liz because her change in character was crucial to the dramatic ending of the movie.

Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 26th, 2006 at 02:09 AM

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 02:06 AM
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katelovespirate
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

PS: whoever Liz ends up with, I believe in my heart she will have a steamy affair with Jack Sparrow once a year...

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 02:08 AM
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LovelyOne
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Aw my god you guys are giving me a head-ache. I know what a pirate is. Thanks for that?

Again - I agree with the whole "she's a pirate thing!" And AGAIN I REPEAT MYSELF - It has nothing to do with her love for "Jack"See my previous post. We are talking about Jack/Will/Elizabeth.

Why is everyone getting pissed off at me? I'm sorry "lovethemtigers" but I really don't think you guys have "pointed out all of your theories and stuff." Sweet job on that by the way. You have given me 2 metaphors. That's it. And I have already addressed them. I was addressing the fact that your "evidence" is unmatched by mine.

Fangirls are crazy.



Sweet...addition......to the debate. Look Black Pearl, I haven't addressed you at all. Please don't insult and mock me. It's not very nice.

I can say the same about this: Thanks.. rolling on floor laughing



What do I keep doing over and over again? Girls, please just point things out.


We have been over all the things we say so many times that it gets tiring..It was before you even came along laughing out loud look around the site you will see it. Why dont you actually go back through the threads and READ it instead of making us repeat ourselves..

I'm not a fangirl..If I didnt think that there was a single chance with Jack/Liz based on what I see in the film I WOULDN'T be supporting the Liz/Jack thing. But there are..and I have been over them so many times with the other girls on this site that ots become too much to keep saying it over again. We have found out alot of hidden messages..seriously look back through the Jack/Liz threads and you will see the evidence to back up what e are saying right now.

Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 26th, 2006 at 02:16 AM

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 02:13 AM
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sweet_kat22
Senior Member

Gender:
Location: Canada

I cant believe you guys are still on this. I give up, this thread isnt fun anymore. I missed too much on my way home from work anyway stick out tongue

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 03:08 AM
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blackpearl44
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Boston MA.

^^ Well, you are going to use all of these theories to re-write your script. Right? stick out tongue

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 12:54 PM
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sweet_kat22
Senior Member

Gender:
Location: Canada

Yeah yeah, theres so many of them though my brain hurts. lol Humm looks like Quincy gave up bothering us heh.

Lovely One is right about everything there. In the way I have studied film all these facts are correct.

Last edited by sweet_kat22 on Jul 26th, 2006 at 03:51 PM

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 03:47 PM
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katelovespirate
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poor quincy. he couldnt handle our over-zealousness.

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 03:52 PM
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blackpearl44
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Boston MA.

^^ LOL our evidence/explainations were too good big grin ...

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 04:10 PM
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LovelyOne
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba

I wouldn't say I was most defiantly right though LOL..but I have faith in my opinions based on what I know with film studies smile If I wasn't sure that I had evidence to back my theories up with then I would stay quiet lol..Its just quite annoying when someone says "this is what this character is" when you can CLEARLY see that she is NOT that. laughing out loud

I have a feeling he will be back later anyway. He was pretty cool. I liked him smile

I was pretty chuffed that I sussed out the Davy /Will thing and was somewhat correct..made me realise that I still got my film analysing skillz that i thought were lost smile

Old Post Jul 26th, 2006 04:17 PM
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Quincy
Debaser

Gender: Male
Location: Through The Looking Glass

Hello ladies.

Yeah. I'm back. 3 years later, and I'm hear to rub it all in your faces that I was right.

Sorry. I'm bored today. Pirates 3 was just on the tv, and I remembered "man I got into an argument with these chicks online over this movie! And I was right!"

So....take that girls. I have no idea if any of you are even still on this site anymore. But I don't care. I'm having my victory.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
This argument holds no merit. Obviously you didn't watch the same movie. You must still be watching Pirates 1.


HAH SUCK IT!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
She wants to be one because in an interview Keira Knightly herself said THATS what her character wants in the movie...so stuff it mate laughing out loud^^

She didn't just turn from posh little girl into swash buckling pirate for no reason...

From the very first movie..even as a little girl she says she finds pirates really interesting.

Also The director said that Liz/Will's relationship is mirroring Davy Jones's in the next movie. Davy cut his heart out because his woman became uncontrollable like the sea and left the marriage..LIZ is doing the exact same thing. isn't she? there are hints beyond hints that a married life with Will is not what she wants. In both the mise en scene and dialogue..


yEAH HOW'D THAT WORK OUT FOR YA?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
Quincy Archer we are film studies students, we know what we are talking about. I dont mind a debate but this is getting rediculous. If I can find my old notes from Film Noir I would be able to explain why Lovely One has all these theorys using objects.

In fact I remember some things.

The Gun in Film Noir represents the masculinity of a detective. Take away his gun take away his masculinity. My teacher said exactly that.

Jack's hat= his full status of a pirate, without it he is incomplete. Take away the hat you take away a part of him maybe not masculinity but something else. When finds it he realizes what he is missing in his life (Meaning when he sees Liz wearing the hat).


CLASSES DIDN'T REALLY HELP DID THEY!?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by blackpearl44
OK.....Quincy Archer......if your going to have this attitude.......then don't bother posting......nobody is going to agree with you.......because your just making up things to create an argument..........and nobody appreciates it......


Did I make things up? Did I?

NOPE!

quote: (post)
Originally posted by blackpearl44
^^ Yea, that's exactly what I think....


You thought my arguments were laughable.

I'm laughing at you way hard right now.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by lovethemtigers
Oh Quincy - you have made this all so much more interesting. I am laughing reading all this stuff. it'a all kind of funny isnt'- but I guess we will have to wait until next May to see who gets the last laugh. If you are right and Liz and Will do get together -then I guess I will forever be watching Pirates 2 over and over and fantasising what could have been.


I got the last laugh. I hope you are enjoying watching Pirates 2 over and over.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by katelovespirate
poor quincy. he couldnt handle our over-zealousness.




quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
I have a feeling he will be back later anyway. He was pretty cool. I liked him smile


I like you too.

But seriously girls, our debate was a lot of fun. And we were all pretty good sports. I don't mean anything by my above statements, but I didn't get to brag when the movie came out FOREVER ago.

Much love girls.


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Old Post Mar 25th, 2009 07:02 PM
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Quincy
Debaser

Gender: Male
Location: Through The Looking Glass

Aw ladies I miss ya


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Old Post Apr 6th, 2009 02:03 PM
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siriuswriter
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: When in Doubt, Go to the Library.

okay. SIRIUSLY?

You guys siriusly need to get some more Will-Fans on here. Every thread either starts out as *JACKJACKJACKJACKJACKJACKJACKJACKwillelizabethLIZZ
IEANDJACKLIZZIEANDJACKGAHHHH!"

or turns into it.

I am but one Will-Fan amongst a sea of Jack-Fans. How is a single drop of of different colored water supposed to balance this out, doods?!?! :P


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Old Post Apr 6th, 2009 02:17 PM
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willofthewisp
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Gender: Female
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You go to the willabeth thread that we started specifically to keep things balanced and post why you are into that.


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Old Post Apr 7th, 2009 04:50 PM
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