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who survives this scenario longest
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Sado22
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actually i agree about spiderman. you're right abotu the senses and that probably will save him.

wolverine.....depends on the HF.

captain america, for all my respect for him, won't make it since he's got nothing going for him except the sheild.

Batman.....what you said is true, i admit. however, how many exploding batarangs and nitrogen grenades does he have? does he have the weaponry like Punisher? no.

~Sado

Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 05:39 PM
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Darth Martin
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sado22
Batman.....what you said is true, i admit. however, how many exploding batarangs and nitrogen grenades does he have? does he have the weaponry like Punisher? no.
Not sure how much he carries. Depends if he has prep time and knows what he's facing or if he just has his standard equipment. He could make walls of ice using his liquid-nitrogen capsules and just enclose himself so they can't get to him and just sit there. eek! Also you have to take into account like Spetnaz said. Batman has faced these things before and is the only one on the team who knows what he's dealing with.

Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 05:48 PM
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Sado22
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wasn't that non-canon thing? confused

Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 06:03 PM
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iceman24567
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Oh please Batman has a way better chance than Frank Castle.


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 06:42 PM
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Darth Martin
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sado22
wasn't that non-canon thing? confused
Who cares if it was or not. erm

Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 06:54 PM
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iceman24567
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Who cares if it was or not. erm
Obviously he just wants Frank to outshine Batman for some reason.


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 06:58 PM
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Darth Martin
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by iceman24567
Obviously he just wants Frank to outshine Batman for some reason.
Will Frank's low-calibre guns even effect the aliens? confused

Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 07:00 PM
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iceman24567
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Darth Martin
Will Frank's low-calibre guns even effect the aliens? confused
Not sure but an exploding batarang will rolling on floor laughing


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 07:01 PM
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Darth Martin
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by iceman24567
Not sure but an exploding batarang will rolling on floor laughing
Definately because in "Aliens" that was how the Marines were taking them out.

Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 07:21 PM
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shiv
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theres one person here with a personal teleporter. And a 100% survival rate to go with it.

cool

Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 10:51 PM
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Darth Martin
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by shiv
theres one person here with a personal teleporter. And a 100% survival rate to go with it.

cool
eek!


Doubt it would work though. Because I think most of us agreed it was a boomtube that teleported him to the Batcave or the Watchtower and in this threads stipulations you can't leave. sad But he's still the only one that has one. smokin'

Old Post Feb 21st, 2008 11:46 PM
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spetznaz
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sado22
just a little info on punisher:

-he carries twin .45 always. and he uses the high capacity clips (as he says) which hold 14 rounds a clip. on top of that he carries two spare rounds for each. that's (14+14+14)x2.
-he carries either an Mp5 or an uzi. another one of his standard weapons. both mp5 and uzi have 30 rounds. on top of all that he always carries 4 extra clips (the part that form the "teeth" on his skull). that's 30x4.
-then he carries with him an M60 or another assault rifle with multiple clips on him. an average assault rifle has 30 rounds and Frank carries several of spare clips. that's another 30x4.
-grenades.
-battle knife
-two throwing knives (since everyone seems to be bringing up Batman's batarangs).

batman can run. but he cant fight them. and xenomorphs thrive in darkness and have great ambush tactics. anyone who thinks that Batman can make out of this alive based on batarangs, batbolos and smoke grenades really needs to see the alien movies again. xenomorphs have ALWAYS stayed in places that are dark, damp and smoky.

and please, stop telling me Frank has no stealth. or is too stupid to know that since he's outnumbered he's better off fighting stealth. for anyone who is even remotely familiar with Frank Castle, he ALWAYS opts for strategy. that's why he pwned Daredevil, wolverine and spiderman together.

as for hiding, that's why he wears blackerm

iceman, you mentioned batman's gadgets and his spikes. what do you think batman will achieve by slashing at these things? aside from winding up looking like TwoFace himself. batarangs....wont do shyte. batbolo's...not something that'll help him survive. liquid nitrogen, seriously doubt he can get more than 2 of them with it. what else? grenades? frnk has 'em too. flash bangs, smoke bombs.......flash bangs probably wont have an effect since i already mentioned that xenomorphs has always lived in smokey areas. i doubt adding to it is only going to make it worse. as for stealth, Frank has shown time and time again that he is awesome at using the envirnoment for his own good. heck he managed to remain hidden from view in broad daylight, WEARING BLACK WITH A SKULL ON IT.

~Sado


On Punisher:

Do not for one moment think that I was discrediting Castle. No way no how. The hombre is extremely capable, and if you check my post i was not belittling his abilities.
As for the stealth part, i was not talking about him as a person, but on the matter of his guns giving him away. The moment he fires the first bullet he basically sets of a ricocheting sound wave that is a major signal to all Aliens within a certain radius, and that is what i meant by him starting a timer the moment he engaged an alien.

Furthermore, look at the weapons you listed. You stated that he has dual pistols with hi-cap mags. Cool ....but those are two handguns with a maximum number of bullets of 84 bullets. If each bullet was assured of a kill that would be nice, but it will take much more than one small caliber bullet to take an Alien down.

You also listed that he packs an Uzi ....nice gun, but its rate of fire is obscene. Too fast (which is why the Israelis, who developed the gun, stopped using it quite some time back). A full burst fire from an uzi would be over in about 4 seconds .....and using an uzi is short-burst fashion is alright against humans, but the uzi (and the MP5) pack pistol bullets so semi fire against a xenomorph wouldn't be too good. An uzis range is not great, its accuracy is questionable, and its redeeming value is that it can put a lot of bullets down range in a short time ....but that 'value' is also one of its bigger issues, because it runs out quick. Not something you want in a situation where murderous aliens are closing in.

The M-16 (and its derivatives) is a good weapon .....but its 5.56mm rounds will require a number of shots to kill a Xeno, and it is loud (and you did not include a sound suppresor) .....Castle better be able to change those clips at Flash speed, because once he starts firing within a couple of minutes he will face many Aliens.

As for total ammo ...he has 84 bullets max for his handguns, he has 120 bullets for his uzi (or alternately his MP5), and he has 120 5.56mms for his assault rifle (in this case M-16,M-14 or AR-15). That is a total of 324 bullets.

Assuming that it takes 12 handgun bullets to kill an Alien (a very optimistic scenario, but let me give Castle the benefit of a doubt), 12 uzi bullets to kill an Alien (Uzis and MP5s use handgun bullets ....with similar range and power ....it is just that they have a higher cyclical rate of fire), and that it takes 8 rifle bullets to kill an Alien (since the 5-56 have a faster speed and a higher kinetic load at impact) ....that would mean that Castle kills 7 Aliens with his handguns (both of them), kills 10 alines with the Uzi, and kills 15 Aliens with his M-16.

That is a total of 32 Aliens.

Now, he has two throwing knives and a battle knife ....let's assume he kills an alien with each, meaning 3 more dead.

That is 35.

Then he has his grenades .....say he kills 3 with each (assuming he has 10 grenades ....which is a really optimistic scenario ....and let us also assume he doesn't get splattered ...and that the Aliens are nicely bunched) ....well, that is another 30 dead .....

......to bring a total of 65 killed.

Guess what ....Frank is out of ammo, out of knives, and relying on ONLY his natural senses to know if Aliens are coming .....and there are 35 Aliens left out there ....and the ones that just died regenerated.



As for the knives being compared to batarangs

Yep ....he has two knives, and his encounter with BullsEye shows he can throw them quite well. But 2 knives are not comparable against Batarangs ....unless you are simply looking at the 'shuriken' throwing batarangs. Batman carries much more than those .....check his past encounters against Aliens, or the ones he used to take down DoomsDay clones. I'd say more than your typical throwing knife.

Batman carries more than one type of batarang.



I never said Batman would make it out of this using batarangs, bolos, or whatnot .....for that matter Batman wouldn't be engaging this things unless he has to (he has past experience with them ....successful past experiences). Also, he would be able to detect them very well ....as shown in the past, again against Aliens .....using the various spectral configurations in his cowl.

And as for Batman's stealth .....in the past he has managed to get next to Superman without Kal even hearing his hearbeat ....something in the suit.

Anyways, i am not knocking on Castle. And that is why on my first post i emphasized that saying Beast wins didn't mean that I am saying he is superior to all other characters, or that saying Batman easily outsurvives Captain America doesn't mean that I am implying Steve is useless .....what it means is that in this PARTICULAR situation certain characters have innate advantages while others have disadvantages (e.g. Captain America's attack style and shield wouldn't be effective here).


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2008 06:38 AM
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Sado22
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quote:
Oh please Batman has a way better chance than Frank Castle.

you're starting to sound like battlehammer now, man laughing
why are you taking it so personally anyway? i don't care if frank doesn't make it. i just think he's got a better chance that throwing batarangs around and staying to the shadows (which happen to be the places where xenomorphs stay anyway). exploding batarangs....i'll give you that much, but how mnay does he have? 10? 20?
compare that to the regular weaponry of Frank that i mentioned a while ago.

quote:
Will Frank's low-calibre guns even effect the aliens?

yes they do. only they aint "low-calibre". the lowest calibre that frank had is a .45 and in aliens2 we've seen them being killed by a sinlge 9mm to the head. so yes, they do have an effect smile

quote:
Furthermore, look at the weapons you listed. You stated that he has dual pistols with hi-cap mags. Cool ....but those are two handguns with a maximum number of bullets of 84 bullets. If each bullet was assured of a kill that would be nice, but it will take much more than one small caliber bullet to take an Alien down.

as i said above.....xenomorphs can be killed with a 9mm to the head. and were shown too.

quote:
You also listed that he packs an Uzi ....nice gun, but its rate of fire is obscene. Too fast (which is why the Israelis, who developed the gun, stopped using it quite some time back). A full burst fire from an uzi would be over in about 4 seconds .....and using an uzi is short-burst fashion is alright against humans, but the uzi (and the MP5) pack pistol bullets so semi fire against a xenomorph wouldn't be too good. An uzis range is not great, its accuracy is questionable, and its redeeming value is that it can put a lot of bullets down range in a short time ....but that 'value' is also one of its bigger issues, because it runs out quick. Not something you want in a situation where murderous aliens are closing in.

agreed. but i did already proove that one round from a 9mm is enough to kill a xenomorph. as for everything else you said, yeah its true, and imagine how convenient it would be for frnak if he had to shoot many of them. uzi'd be a great help if they come in numbers.

and let me concede this now: batman has better chances than i originally said. sorry for underestimating the bat.

~Sado
P.S. iceman, you can stop your transformation into battlehammer now big grin j/k

Old Post Feb 22nd, 2008 09:31 AM
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iceman24567
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T'Challa wins here anyways he has everything needed.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2008 04:31 PM
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Darth Martin
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Not sure if the Vibranium suit will withstand the acid. If it holds I like T'Challa's chances. And that thing about T'Challa not making any noise. Yautja don't make any noise when they move around and Xeno's still find them.

Old Post Feb 23rd, 2008 02:52 AM
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emporerpants
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bump


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Old Post Jul 2nd, 2008 03:35 AM
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h1a8
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BP wins both scenarios easily. His suit protects him till the end of the world.


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Old Post Jul 2nd, 2008 03:46 AM
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ODG
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Contrary to my initial reaction, I think Castle would not last very long. At least, not utilizing the tactics that a lot of people here have him using. If Castle were to engage in a firefight, he'd definitely take a lot of them out, but there is no limit to the Aliens in this scenario. If Castle makes a huge fracas, he's going to draw all the damn Aliens to him. He's better off using weapons as a last resort and using stealth. I don't doubt he'd have an easier time taking down ten aliens charging at him down a hallway, but when you have 100 Aliens who find out where you are, because you're making such a commotion... well then... you;'d be screwed unless you had unlimited firepower. And Punisher can only carry so much with him.

I give this scenario to Black Panther. While Daredevil would be #1 in terms of senses, Black Panther is tied at #2 with Beast maybe. And he has got better survivability with his armor and agility, has a near 6th sense about danger and is the most accomplished hunter here. I'd also put him at #1 or tied at #2 for stealth with Batman. And he's probably carryin some gadgets around.

Cap... well he could kill the Aliens with a shield toss decapitating them or making them bleed acid on each other... but his shield would be covered in the gunk eventually.


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Old Post Jul 2nd, 2008 03:48 AM
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psycho gundam
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bp still for the win, unless ~sado~ or someone else can rationalize him both evading attacks and lugging a huge cache of guns/ammo around a
dark wet space station with ladders everywhere.

300 pounds of guns, ammo, knives, and body armour + a ladder = fail


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Old Post Jul 2nd, 2008 04:22 AM
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Placidity
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by spetznaz
On Punisher:

Do not for one moment think that I was discrediting Castle. No way no how. The hombre is extremely capable, and if you check my post i was not belittling his abilities.
As for the stealth part, i was not talking about him as a person, but on the matter of his guns giving him away. The moment he fires the first bullet he basically sets of a ricocheting sound wave that is a major signal to all Aliens within a certain radius, and that is what i meant by him starting a timer the moment he engaged an alien.

Furthermore, look at the weapons you listed. You stated that he has dual pistols with hi-cap mags. Cool ....but those are two handguns with a maximum number of bullets of 84 bullets. If each bullet was assured of a kill that would be nice, but it will take much more than one small caliber bullet to take an Alien down.

You also listed that he packs an Uzi ....nice gun, but its rate of fire is obscene. Too fast (which is why the Israelis, who developed the gun, stopped using it quite some time back). A full burst fire from an uzi would be over in about 4 seconds .....and using an uzi is short-burst fashion is alright against humans, but the uzi (and the MP5) pack pistol bullets so semi fire against a xenomorph wouldn't be too good. An uzis range is not great, its accuracy is questionable, and its redeeming value is that it can put a lot of bullets down range in a short time ....but that 'value' is also one of its bigger issues, because it runs out quick. Not something you want in a situation where murderous aliens are closing in.

The M-16 (and its derivatives) is a good weapon .....but its 5.56mm rounds will require a number of shots to kill a Xeno, and it is loud (and you did not include a sound suppresor) .....Castle better be able to change those clips at Flash speed, because once he starts firing within a couple of minutes he will face many Aliens.

As for total ammo ...he has 84 bullets max for his handguns, he has 120 bullets for his uzi (or alternately his MP5), and he has 120 5.56mms for his assault rifle (in this case M-16,M-14 or AR-15). That is a total of 324 bullets.

Assuming that it takes 12 handgun bullets to kill an Alien (a very optimistic scenario, but let me give Castle the benefit of a doubt), 12 uzi bullets to kill an Alien (Uzis and MP5s use handgun bullets ....with similar range and power ....it is just that they have a higher cyclical rate of fire), and that it takes 8 rifle bullets to kill an Alien (since the 5-56 have a faster speed and a higher kinetic load at impact) ....that would mean that Castle kills 7 Aliens with his handguns (both of them), kills 10 alines with the Uzi, and kills 15 Aliens with his M-16.

That is a total of 32 Aliens.

Now, he has two throwing knives and a battle knife ....let's assume he kills an alien with each, meaning 3 more dead.

That is 35.

Then he has his grenades .....say he kills 3 with each (assuming he has 10 grenades ....which is a really optimistic scenario ....and let us also assume he doesn't get splattered ...and that the Aliens are nicely bunched) ....well, that is another 30 dead .....

......to bring a total of 65 killed.

Guess what ....Frank is out of ammo, out of knives, and relying on ONLY his natural senses to know if Aliens are coming .....and there are 35 Aliens left out there ....and the ones that just died regenerated.



As for the knives being compared to batarangs

Yep ....he has two knives, and his encounter with BullsEye shows he can throw them quite well. But 2 knives are not comparable against Batarangs ....unless you are simply looking at the 'shuriken' throwing batarangs. Batman carries much more than those .....check his past encounters against Aliens, or the ones he used to take down DoomsDay clones. I'd say more than your typical throwing knife.

Batman carries more than one type of batarang.



I never said Batman would make it out of this using batarangs, bolos, or whatnot .....for that matter Batman wouldn't be engaging this things unless he has to (he has past experience with them ....successful past experiences). Also, he would be able to detect them very well ....as shown in the past, again against Aliens .....using the various spectral configurations in his cowl.

And as for Batman's stealth .....in the past he has managed to get next to Superman without Kal even hearing his hearbeat ....something in the suit.

Anyways, i am not knocking on Castle. And that is why on my first post i emphasized that saying Beast wins didn't mean that I am saying he is superior to all other characters, or that saying Batman easily outsurvives Captain America doesn't mean that I am implying Steve is useless .....what it means is that in this PARTICULAR situation certain characters have innate advantages while others have disadvantages (e.g. Captain America's attack style and shield wouldn't be effective here).


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Old Post Jul 2nd, 2008 06:11 AM
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