You can be an admirer without being a fan. Being a fan is more than just liking the music, it's having an active interest in the band. It's being one of their followers. How you measure this is up to you. Maybe you know all their songs, maybe you've gone to several of their shows, or own all their albums, or have an extensive t-shirt collection..
A few years back when the Carolina Panthers faced off against the New England Patriots in the super bowl, I was an admirer of the Panthers. I wanted them to win, I liked them and thought they had a really good team. I was still a Giants fan, I was never a Panthers fan. I never followed the Panthers, never watched their games, knew their roster or anything.
Overall I think it's up to the individual to decide whether they're a "fan" or not, since really they're the only ones who are qualified to speak on their interest in the band/team/whatever. To make a thread dedicated to forcing someone into admitting they're a fan of something they claim to not have any real interest in just screams "control freak."
What are you having a problem with? I've said it to you a million times. The one you quoted is simply just one definition of the word "Fan", correct, but just one of many. If you want examples of what I believe "Fan" to mean, in general. Read the thread, it's all there. After giving you way more time than you're worth, I'm not going to simple repeat everything I've said again when you can simply read the thread.
If I like a band for years and then someone who's just discovered them buys all the shirts, posters, CDs and merch, I am no less of a fan simply because they decided to do that and I didn't. Totally illogical.
Then you like their team, being a fan of their team doesn't mean you support them over your "home" team or whatever. It doesn't mean you're a supporter of them.
I support Arsenal, but I'm a fan of Chelsea's team. That's how it works. I don't see why you and Bier are seperating all these terms to suit yourselves, it doesn't work that way.
No, you're putting the cart before the horse. They have the authority to decide how much they like a band, but not what that means.
Bier can decide how much he likes Nirvana, and he has. He's decided he likes their albums and their music, that's up to him, but that means he is a fan of their music, fact.
The definition "ardent admirer" is already covered by the following definition:
"If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan."
An ardent admirer has positive feelings. There's no need to use the definition "Ardent admirer". Every single definition ever is covered by the quoted definition. That's the only definition you need. It covers everything.
I didn't say it makes you less of a fan. I only named a couple examples of ways to "follow" a band. Liking them for years qualifies..
That's right, I like their team, I'm not a fan. I don't like them to a great enough degree to call myself a fan, nor do i follow the team closely enough. In my opinion, to call myself a fan of a team that I passively like would cheapen the term.
It's not just a matter of liking the music, if I hear a song on the radio that I like it doesn't make me a fan of the artist. It's how closely you follow the band that makes you a fan, or how much of an interest you have in them. Only the person in question can say "yes, i'm a fan" or "no, i'm not a fan" with any kind of validity.
Maybe you consider yourself a fan of any band who's music you like, that's fine. You can call yourself a fan of whatever you want. People might question this, since most people tend to associate "enthusiasm" with being a fan, but that's whatever. I've heard of people saying that others aren't a true fan of such and such, but i've honestly never encountered anyone who was illogical enough to suggest that even though someone doesn't even like Nirvana enough to say "yes, i'm a fan," they are indeed a fan because they gave their music some positive feedback! Fact!
It doesn't matter, you have a positive enough opinion of their team, roster and players, in one instance. You like them, therefore you are a fan. This doesn't mean you love them, follow them or anything. You're just a fan of the way they play, you like it.
It is nothing to do with that. We are discussing music, so yes, it is about music. You consider someone a fan if they buy all the shirts, but what if they've only been into the music for about a week and like it? That would mean they are a fan of the music, and as a result, decide to purchase merchandise. It doesn't make them a greater fan of the music, it just makes them the kind of fan that buys merch.
We're still both fans. You are a fan if you like the music, regardless of the degree. If you hear a song on the radio that you like, then you're a fan of the song. If you hear an album you like, you're a fan of the album.
Krunk'd is a fan of the Chili Peppers music, but not necessarily the band themselves. You are being too erratic with the term "Fan". It's not up to the person. They can decide if they LIKE the term "Fan" or not, but the fact that they are, or are not, isn't up to them.
I might not like my birthname, but the fact is, it's my birthname.
The person in question owns their albums, likes their albums, likes THEM, and has admitted to it. He's a fan, that is a hard core, undeniable fact. It's been done and dusted and I'm not going over it with an additional person.
Secondly, you're wrong again. Your entire argument is based around the idea that a person decides what words are applicable to them despite their actions. If you stab a man to death, you can't say "I don't like the term 'Murderer', so I don't think I am one.". You are.
Just like the word "Fan". He can like it or dislike it, that's his choice, but he's still a fan.
The way I see it, the definition "Ardent follower" is not actually a different definition then "If you don't have negative... a fan." It's actually part OF that definition.
"If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan."
This definition covers ALL the definitions of the word fan ever. Be it ardent follower, enthusiast, someone who likes something, fanatic, whatever. Every kind of fan is covered. There's really no need to use another definition then the one that covers it all.
1.) I'm not a Panthers fan, you can word your argument a thousand different ways, me not being a Panthers fan is not going to change.
2.) The solidity of the terms "fan" and "murderer" aren't comparable. If being a fan is being an "ardent admirer" like the dictionary says, then someone can argue that they like a band's music mildly but are not an "ardent admirer." Whether you like it or not, it's a possible scenario. I know that referencing the dictionary is looked down upon when quarreling on online forums, but the dictionary CAN be useful for certain instances such as, I dunno, looking up the meaning of a word?
What a coincidence..
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fan
Last edited by ElectricKoolAid on Aug 11th, 2006 at 10:26 PM
You clearly view "Fan" as meaning that you like them to the same degree as your home team, which you consider yourself a fan of. It doesn't. I'm fans of many bands, but I don't like them all the same.
This is where you're going wrong.
You haven't read the thread, have you? That's ONE definition of the word "Fan", not THE definition. Being an ardent follower is one extreme degree of being a fan, not the only degree.
You said you use more then one definition. Why, though? In what situation would you need to use more then one definition? Do you vary between the two? Use them both at the same time (which is pointless)?
I've never said I have a superior definition, like I said, read the thread.
The dictionary definition is correct, but it's not the only definition of being a fan, with regards to liking something. As proven by millions of people worldwide, as proven by me in this thread.
Isn't this just a tad bit hypcrotical after you telling me that I don't like the defintion of the word fan, so I'm trying to change it? Since when do "the people" get to decide what being a fan means?
The dictionary definition is a degree of fandom. It could easily say "Someone who had taken a liking or interest to/in something.", but it would be pointless to list all the degrees as definitions.
That is indeed what a fan is. If you like something, you are a fan of it. Liking a song means you're a fan of the song, an album; the album, a band; the band. Simple. The degrees of fandom differ, but that's what a fan is.
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Aug 11th, 2006 09:36 PM
