Never, they don't. That's the point. I'm not deciding what fan means, Bier was trying to. You are trying to.
If you don't like the idea that you are a fan simply because you like something, then that's fine. However, it doesn't change the fact that you are a fan as a result. You think: "I'm a fan of the Giants, and I don't like the Patriots as much, so I'm not a fan.". False, you simply aren't as much of a fan of the Patriots as you are of the Giants.
The dictionary contains A definition of "Fan", correct? What's the definition? "An ardent follower.", right? Yes. What is ardent following? A degree of fandom. So therefore, their definition of fandom is just illustrating the furthest extreme, not the whole, as we both know and have both agreed.
If you seriously do not have the ability to grasp my posts, then what are you here for? I really don't understand what's so hard. Can you honestly not read? That's not an insult, I'm curious. Do you have problems reading?
1.) I'm not trying to change anything, I'm going by the dictionary definition which is an ardent admirer.
Your argument that the dictionary only lists the most extreme definition of the term, and that it's actually meant to include those who aren't "ardent admirers" but also "mild listeners" is completely illogical. You're trying to broaden the definition. That is point blank: changing the definition. It doesn't say anyone who takes a liking to anything is a fan, you're just not satisfied with what it does say.
2.) It's Panthers, not Patriots. Irrelevant information, yes, but all too necessary seeing that I can't stomach the idea of people mistaking me for a Pats fan.
Me: "Yes. If someone is an ardent follower, I consider them such. If not, I don't.".
You: "Do you see 'Ardent follower' as a definition of fan? If so, do you use it?".
I can almost feel your genuine lack of understand and attention span seeping out of my keyboard. How many times in this thread have I posted the line: "'Ardent Follower' is A definition of fan.", or something similar? You KNOW that I do, so why are you asking such a question? I've said that perhaps more times than anything else, and you still ask.
Right now, please, go and read this thread from start to present, and then if you can't ask anything that hasn't already been asked, quit it.
That's just one degree, though, as I continually have to explain to you people. Ardent following is not the be all and end all of being a fan, you believe it is. Fact is, it's not.
I am indeed satisfied with what is there, I've said that it's A correct definition, but anyone with remote real world experience can see than fandom, and being a fan, isn't that simple.
Have you ever been to a gig? If the answer is "No", then go to one and watch my point prove itself. Some people go there because they think it'll just be good to see a band they like, some go because they're following the band around on tour. They're all fans, though.
Those who cannot grasp this simple point, are simple themselves.
I asked two questions, you answered with one yes. How was I supposed to know what question the yes was for?
You use "Ardent follower" as a definition of fan. This is completely pointless. There is absolutely no need for you to use that definition next to this one:
"If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan."
It's like saying:
A fan is someone who likes a band and it is also someone who is an ardent follower of a band.
Why say that when you can just say this to cover it all and be done with it:
"If you don't have negative feelings toward a band and aren't indifferent, but have feelings positive toward them; Yes, you're a fan."
You're not satisfied with what's there, if you were you wouldn't being insisting that it's not the whole definition, that it's just a degree of fandom. You're disagreeing with the definition and then dancing around having to actually say you disagree with it. Answer me logically why would the dictionary only list the most extreme degree of what being a fan means, instead of actually just listing what being a fan means?
I've been to a gig, not of any band that I like though so I don't count it. I'm not arguing there aren't different degrees of being a fan, but the spectrum of "fandom" can't extend beyond the literal definition if you're going to have such a matter-of-fact attitude about what being a fan means.
Yeah, gotta be off now, going on vacation tommorow for over a week, so thats the reason I wont be responding for some time now. Ill get back to you though, just be patient.
So now you're resorting to telling me? I have said I agree with the definition, I have said it's correct, because it is. Factually, though, it's not the be all and end all of being a fan. Fact, undeniable fact.
I'm living proof, so are many millions of others. If you like a band, a song, an album or anything like that, you're a fan. This can mean "I like that song, yeah.", or "So and so are my favourite band ever and I love them.". Both people are fans, just different degrees.
The dictionary can't list all the possible degrees of fandom because that's nigh impossible as there are so many, it's impractical. So what do you do when you want to illustrate something? You make it really, really clear. The dictionary did that by using an extreme.
Then if we agree there are different degrees of fandom, one of which being ardent following (the extreme), then why are you acting like it's the one true definition and anyone who happens to fall in with another degree, is not a fan? Makes no sense.
Finally you make a coherent point. You're asking why I would use "Ardent follower" as a definition when I can just use the one you quoted?
Ardent following is included in my definition, the quoted one, so technically I do use it. Just not on it's own. I consider anyone who has positive feelings toward a song, album, band or anything enough to say they like it a bit/a lot/are crazy over, a fan. So everything is included, even ardent following.
I can accept the dictionary using that one extreme example, because whilst it's synecdochical, it is also applicable.
Fan = die hard / loyal follower. I like a few songs from some musicains, but that doesn't automatically make me a fan.
I'm a true fan of Tupac, Selena, Marvin Gaye, and The Temptations. I like a couple songs from Biggie, The Doors, and The Mamas and the Papas, but I'm not a fan.
There's a difference between being a fan and "just liking".
Of course you can like a band and their albulms and not be fan. a fan would know a lot about the band, they would want tickets to their shows, maybe wear the band's merchandise.
No, you're wrong. Why does knowing a lot about the band mean someone is more of a fan of the music? It doesn't. Someone might know Tom Araya's favourite cereal, it doesn't mean they like Slayer's music more than me. If you are a fan of THEM enough to know a lot about THEM, then you are simply a fan of THEM, it doesn't mean that someone who simply loves the music, and knows nothing about the band, isn't a fan. They are, they're a fan of the music.
Ever been to a concert? I've seen many people at gigs who just like a band or an artist. They're still fans.
Some might be fans of the music AND the band, some might be fans of the band more than the music, some might (and should) love the music first and foremost. They're all still fans.
I honestly do not know what the big misunderstanding is. There's a difference between the level of fan, but it's still fandom. You all think "If they're not buying the merch, they're no fan.". Stupid.
yeah they are a fan of the music but you said the band at the beginning. i am confused by your first paragraph as you are explaining two different "fans" here.
I have been to many concerts and the people who go there know the band pretty well, most of them wear items of clothing with the bands name on it, they know the lyrics and they go because they are fans. someone who claimed they weren't a fan of a certain band would be unlikely to go to their concerts.
i like some of the pop music i hear in the charts but i am not a fan of those groups and certainly wouldn't go to one of their gigs.
and don't call me stupid. i don't think that someone who doesn't buy bands merchandise isn't a fan i was using it as something fans do as a non fan would be unlikely to buy it.
One dictionary definition of a fan pretty much answers this argument:
KMC Community Forums
Aug 11th, 2006 10:37 PM
