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Home » Star Wars » Star Wars: Episode IV, V & VI » The truth behind Jedi vanishing at death!


The truth behind Jedi vanishing at death!
Started by: Darth Heinous

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Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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If Qui-Gon turns up in ghost form, then I am totally wrong, in all probability. However, I can see no possibility in which Qui-Gon would turn up in ghost form, and Anakin would not know about it- which, of course, he doesn't! Because he does not know of the possibility of ghost form!

Like I say, it makes far more sense for the two things- the disappearing and the ghost form- to be linked then it does for them to be seperate, otherwise both major discoveries are made entirely independantly in Episodes II and III, which seems unlikely.


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2001 05:49 AM
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Dim
Creativity

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Southern California


 


True..

You know..we could look at this way..Anakin's birth was unexplainable..so why shouldn't his death be the same?


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Old Post Feb 25th, 2001 10:42 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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His death was quite explainable, it's the afterlife thing that's bugging us. laughing out loud


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Old Post Feb 26th, 2001 04:52 AM
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Ushgarak
Paladin

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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Ho-ho!

Incidentally, (and further apologies to Merc),does anyone think that the 'secret' of the disappearing/ghost trick ois the Midi-Chlorians? When Obi-Wan says in ESB that he is forbidden to interfere, is this because this is the Will of the FOrce, told to him by the Midi-Chlorians, who are responsible for brigning him back?

Heck, maybe the disappearing trick is you being pulled into the Force BY the MCs in your body, and then they can project you back into the real world!


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Feb 26th, 2001 04:59 AM
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Ratcat
Senior Member

Registered: Jul 2000
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Cool idea, and you need very high midichlorian levels to do this.

Yoda was one of the highest, Anakin was the highest ever known. Must mean that Obi-Wan has very high levels too. But sadly Qui Gon was not so well endowed with Midichlorians.

Old Post Feb 26th, 2001 05:07 AM
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Ushgarak
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Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK

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The only problem is that I find it not very credible that no-one before Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin had had it happen to them before. So maybe the MCs are part of the Propehcy- when Sidiuous unbalances the Force by becoming top dog, the MCs decide that it is fianlly time to help the Jedi agionst the Sith, and return the balance (and in fact they pre-empitvely did that, by conceiving Anaakin). Part of this help is that they pullselected Jedi (Yoda and Obi-Wan) into the Force before they die. Anakin gets pulled in because, well, he is their son after all!

This would mean that Anakin nver properly listened to his MCs, like Qui-Gon told him to. Silly boy.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Feb 26th, 2001 05:17 AM
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Ratcat
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Registered: Jul 2000
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I didn't think it was such a new thing for Jedi Masters to vanish like that. Just that some did and some didn't.

Old Post Feb 26th, 2001 05:23 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
Location: JP's bed

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Yes, I doubt that it never happened. There must be something to it.

Hey Ush, about OB1 being stopped by the MC's to interfere. Maybe a silly idea, but do you think the ghost-OB1 might consist of only MC's, without the "crude matter"? I mean, SW never talks about soul or spirit. Only about the Force and midi's.


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Old Post Feb 27th, 2001 08:45 PM
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Ratcat
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I think thew soul and spirit idea is intrinsically linked in with the Force. Everyone is linked to the force but only Jedi/Sith/etc have the ability to use it in an enhanced way.

Also, I agree that it is likely that others have vanished at death to become one with the force, after all Obi Wan knew when he raised his sabre in salute to Vader that he would vanish.

"If you strike me down I will become more powerful......etc"

Old Post Feb 28th, 2001 01:45 AM
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queeq
Chaos

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Yes, but the question remains if he learned that together with Yoda after quite an ordeal or because it is part of the Jedi in touch with the Unifying or Living Force? It could be anything at this stage really.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2001 04:10 AM
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Ushgarak
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Hey, Unifying Force vs. Living Force... that's from the nutter's web site, isn't it?

And no, Masters do NOT do the disappearing or ghost tricks. At all. Or Anakin would have learnt about them from his training, and he didn't! It is a TOTALLY new thing that Yoda and Obi-Wan do (excluding the possiblilty that it was done before recorded history)


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Feb 28th, 2001 05:34 AM
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Dim
Creativity

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Southern California


 


Yeah, but what's the point of the vanishing trick if it doesn't have anythign to do with coming back as a ghost?..and Anakin did...so I don't know if that really holds up.


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Old Post Feb 28th, 2001 12:14 PM
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Ushgarak
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Hang on, I'm confused now. Are you commenting on me, Dim, or someone beforehand? Because I support the idea that the two are linked. I always have done. I don't believe anything I said contradicts that. The fact that Anakin makes it into the Force at the end, after disappearing (Note to queeq- after PRESUMABLY disappearing) is the big, big mystery, and I imagine it's intentional.

But in any case, he did not know about it at any point beforehand. In some way, he had a flash of inspiration at his death.


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"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 1st, 2001 02:33 AM
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Dim
Creativity

Registered: Aug 2000
Location: Southern California


 


Sorry Ush..I didn't realize you were including Anakin in with Yoda and OB1...laughing out loud


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Old Post Mar 1st, 2001 08:45 AM
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queeq
Chaos

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Presumably! Exactly, Ush, and thanks for thinking about me. laughing out loud


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Old Post Mar 1st, 2001 04:03 PM
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Ushgarak
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SO, at this point I think we can at least try and come up with a theoretical idea about the Prophecy, disappearing and ghost tricks, and the Midi-Chlorians

The Prophecy was made by the Midi-Chlorians, who with their extreme force empathy could see the coming problem of imbalance and devised the 'Chosen One" as a means of countering it. So, when Qui-Gon mentions that Anakin waspossibly 'conceived by the Midi-Chlorians", Windui immediately leaps in and asks if Qui-Gon is referring to the Prophecy, suggesting a strong Midi-CHlorian link (although Windu coul;d just be talking about what Qui-GOn is saying in general rathe than that specfic sentence).

However, for whatever reason, it all goes startlingly wrong with their Chosen One, and he worsens the Balance rather than restoring it. When it becomes clear this has happened, the MCs come upwith a new emergency plan- they communicate with the Jedi Obi_wan and Yoda, presumably the most capable still alive, and propose a new plan via which they can teach Anakin's son. To try and ensutre the success of the plan, they offer the two Jedi a chance to return after their death if need be,to carry on their task. But the price was heavy- they could ONLYfocus on their taskof teaching Anakin's child, and not interfere with the universe in any other way.

Whteher the MCs knew that Luke could turn Anakin back is unknown- but Yoda and Obi-Wan didn;t to think it was a possibility (though as Vader says, "Obi-Wan once thought as you did..." when Luke suggests the possibility.

So, in the duel with Vader, Obi-Wan sees the position for him is bad. he has known about the returning after death thing before hand, but obviously enough would rather have stayed alive. But in that moment, he knows that by 'dying' in full view and returning, he has his best hope to give Luke the adice he needs, without Vader even suspecting that such adivce is still forthcoming.

And when Anakin dies, the MCs pull their own creation back into the Force, and he re-jopins his friends.

There you go. Not perfect, but at least as credible as lots of other stuff I've heard.


__________________



"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"

"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"

BtVS

Old Post Mar 2nd, 2001 06:04 AM
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Jedi Mercenary
Shotgun Pete

Registered: Aug 2001
Location: Reno,NV born in Gresham O


 


Awfully scientific Ush.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2001 07:29 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
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Nice try, Ush, and impressive. I just have a major problem with the MC's as inteligent life forms. It is the Force that communicates, not the MC's. The Force communicates via the MC's. The reason why Anakin might have been conceived by MC's is because they are biological and the Force is not.

And then they have to change the series title: Midi Wars.


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Old Post Mar 2nd, 2001 02:41 PM
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Ratcat
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Yeah, I've been battling with the concept of the Midichlorians for a while now.

Are they just a biological phenomenon like white blood cells or something?
Are they like a symbiote that needs the hosts body to live in?
Are they a single celled lifeform that groups together to form a cohesive, cooperative life form?

In fact they're probably none of these, and Lucas will come up with a whole new way of looking at them.

Old Post Mar 3rd, 2001 03:19 AM
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queeq
Chaos

Registered: Oct 2000
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I am still hoping the midi thing will turn out to be a big hoax, that the Jedi felt it indicated some kind of strength in the Force, but that they are wrong. But as I said: just hoping...


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Old Post Mar 3rd, 2001 04:30 AM
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