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Jehovah's Witnesses - Legitimate Religion or Extremist Cult?
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Legitimate 3 23.08%
Cult 10 76.92%
Total: 13 votes 100%
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Jehovah's Witnesses - Legitimate Religion or Extremist Cult?
Started by: Mithlond

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Mithlond
Gondor needs no King!

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Jehovah's Witnesses - Legitimate Religion or Extremist Cult?

The only true believers? Or brain-washing cult?

What do you think?


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Last edited by Mithlond on Sep 2nd, 2006 at 09:54 PM

Old Post Sep 2nd, 2006 09:50 PM
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Ordo
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Don't most religions have cults? or at least cultish aspects to them?


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2006 09:59 PM
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Mithlond
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Totally. But, do you think the JWs are?


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2006 10:02 PM
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Ordo
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I think part of being religious is being cultish.


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2006 10:09 PM
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Mithlond
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Good answer, so you wouldn't separate the two?

I guess we'd better need some definitions - according to freedictionary.com

RELIGION1a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Well, I guess that kinda covers both options...

LEGITIMATE:
1. Being in compliance with the law; lawful: a legitimate business.
2. Being in accordance with established or accepted patterns and standards: legitimate advertising practices.
3. Based on logical reasoning; reasonable: a legitimate solution to the problem.
4. Authentic; genuine: a legitimate complaint.
5. Born of legally married parents: legitimate issue.
6. Of, relating to, or ruling by hereditary right: a legitimate monarch.
7. Of or relating to drama of high professional quality that excludes burlesque, vaudeville, and some forms of musical comedy: the legitimate theater.

Well, I guess only 2, 3 and 4 apply to this..

CULT

1.
a. A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
b. The followers of such a religion or sect.
2. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
3. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
4a. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
b. followers of such a regimen
5.
a. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
b. The object of such devotion.
6. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

I guess I'm thinking along no4 here, except you could think of 'curing a disease' as 'saving people from damnation' with elements of 1 as in it is seen as extremist and/or false.

So.....

Are JWs 'legitimate' in
2. Being in accordance with established or accepted patterns and standards: legitimate advertising practices.
3. Based on logical reasoning; reasonable: a legitimate solution to the problem.
4. Authentic; genuine: a legitimate complaint.

or a 'Cult' as in
A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator/followers to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease or in this case saving people from damnation, generally considered extremist or false.


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2006 10:26 PM
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Regret
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - Legitimate Religion or Extremist Cult?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mithlond
The only true believers? Or brain-washing cult?

What do you think?


They are a cult, same as all religions. It is merely semantics that separates the term cult and the term religion. The designation is spurious dependant on the subjective view of the speaker.


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Old Post Sep 2nd, 2006 11:19 PM
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Imperial_Samura
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Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - Legitimate Religion or Extremist Cult?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mithlond
The only true believers? Or brain-washing cult?

What do you think?


Wait... so what have the JW's done to earn the questioning of whether they are valid enough? Is this one of these Catholics/Mormons/JW/etc/etc aren't really Christian deals?

In my mind they are just as much a religion as most others. They don't strike me as particularly cultish. There are certainly more Cultish out there. As to whether there are the "only true believers"is another question entirely - but then I don't think any Christian denomination is really the "only true and right religion." But then I feel like that about most religions.


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2006 05:11 AM
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Last edited by Digi on Sep 16th, 2009 at 04:18 PM

Old Post Sep 3rd, 2006 07:03 AM
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Mithlond
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Re: Re: Jehovah's Witnesses - Legitimate Religion or Extremist Cult?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
Wait... so what have the JW's done to earn the questioning of whether they are valid enough? Is this one of these Catholics/Mormons/JW/etc/etc aren't really Christian deals?

In my mind they are just as much a religion as most others. They don't strike me as particularly cultish. There are certainly more Cultish out there. As to whether there are the "only true believers"is another question entirely - but then I don't think any Christian denomination is really the "only true and right religion." But then I feel like that about most religions.


There has been a lot of talk of brain-washing in the JWs, which is why I particularly singled those out. I'm not saying they're Waco-types, just a topic for discussion.


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2006 07:38 AM
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Ordo
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Aren't most religions just a form of brain washing?


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2006 05:10 PM
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Regret
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
Aren't most religions just a form of brain washing?


laughing By definition any teaching is an attempt at brainwashing, and any learning is a sign of being brainwashed. No one can force you to have a particular view, it requires a desire on your part. If you go to church, or hang out with anyone period, you will slowly begin to be more like they are in your manner of thinking and behaving, this isn't brainwashing, it's just a fact of life. Brain washing is one of the conspiracy theorist's most amusing constructs, the fact is it is a fancy way of saying "teaching" that sounds more malicious.


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2006 05:35 PM
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Ordo
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I know. But "brain washing" serves my agenda.


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2006 05:38 PM
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Regret
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
I know. But "brain washing" serves my agenda.


Yes, I can see how it does wink

In case you were wondering, the LDS Church is one of the best at it. We actually use the best teaching techniques available. It is one of the reasons I am LDS. If God had one true religion science would find that its methods of teaching were highly effective, and it has found that they are. I had a discussion on the fact with one of my favorite psychology professors during my undergraduate work, he and I compiled a list of techniques used in the religious practices, and found that nearly every aspect of the religion can be placed in some concept that promotes increased belief in the subject taught. I have a difficult time believing that the uneducated Joseph Smith and the men that were placed in leadership positions in the church could have come up with that much correct teaching practice on their own. wink


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2006 05:43 PM
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Ordo
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Why else do you think religion has survived?


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2006 05:49 PM
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Regret
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
Why else do you think religion has survived?


Much of it I believe is a fear of death, combined with lack of plausible evidence in the past for those that would otherwise not be religious. I believe that the lack of ability to teach is evident in much of Christianity in the past 2000 years. I don't believe one can claim that Christianity was able to teach, it just adapted to those it wanted to assimilate. Ancestor worship led to saints, European pagan religions led to Satan/Pan combining, there are large numbers of examples of adaptation. Christianity, particularly Catholicism, didn't teach well, they adapted and assimilated. They would vilify the current religious leaders and then step in and say, "we believe as you do, see", your leaders are wrong and evil. They would then give the people what they wanted for a time and then press the beliefs that were not existent in the assimilated culture.

As to the survival of other religions, I am unsure as to how they did. Although, many survived because they provided necessary structure or behavior codes for survival and presented them in a manner that was typically somewhat voluntary for the adherents. This perceived voluntary behavior strengthened loyalty, imo.

I do not believe another religion can compare to the LDS Church as to effective teaching techniques, regardless of their success.


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Old Post Sep 3rd, 2006 06:02 PM
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Ex-Jehovah Witness Learns the Witnesses lie about our Spirit Bodies


The Near Death Experience of Haydee Cortes


I was baptized by the Jehovah witnesses in 1970. I believed in God but I didn't believe that Jesus Christ was God. I believed Jesus Christ was a god created by the true God. I didn't believe in life after death much less that there was a conscious spirit that would leave the body when one died. I didn't believe in any kind of miracle healing nor I believed that God would communicate with people through visions or dreams. I believed that all kind of healing, miracles and visions were the work of the devil. I was very loyal to these Jehovah Witness teachings, and nobody could convince me of the contrary.

On September 12, 1973 I was ready to have a C-section done. While I was on the operation table I could see how the doctors and nurses were getting ready to do their job and they were kind of painting my abdomen with an orange liquid. I was concerned about it and asked what were they doing. The doctor explained to me that they were doing this before the anesthesia since they had to apply the anesthesia and start cutting right away to avoid the baby to be sedated.

They started injecting me the anesthesia and I felt a strange sensation. My body got stiffed, but my mind stayed awake. I realized they were going to cut my abdomen and I was not asleep. I tried to move and scream in desperation but all efforts were in vain. I started feeling a terrible pain while they were cutting my abdomen. All of a sudden in the middle of my pain I heard an audible voice saying; "Look what is going to happen to you!"
In that instant I was pulled out of my body with a sudden swoosh. I was moving very fast in a circular motion heading toward the ceiling of the room. I stayed hovering there looking down to what they were doing. I could see how my baby was being taken out of my womb. I felt very sad and I said: "Nothing can be done, everything is over for me on the earth. I was so anxious to see that baby and I couldn't even hold it in my arms". I remembered my other children with sadness and said, "This is the end; now my children will forget all about me".

I then started going up. I was aware I didn't have a solid body. I was some kind of energy force moving at a high speed like in a circular motion. I was completely conscious. I knew I was me and I had all my memories with me. I knew I had left the earth. I found myself in a pitch black place. I started asking questions to myself. "Is this the universe? Where am I? Where am I going to? Am I going to stay here forever?" All of a sudden I started feeling something very strange. The only word I can use for this is agony or torment. At the same time I was feeling a need for my body. I wanted to get out of there and I wanted my body back. I couldn't bear the torment. I remembered the voice I heard at the hospital right before coming out of my body ("look what is going to happen to you"). I started screaming "PLEASE, DON'T LET THIS TO HAPPEN!" " I ACCEPT I WON'T EVER GO TO THE EARTH AGAIN , I ACCEPT I WON 'T EVER SEE MY CHILDREN AGAIN, BUT I CAN'T ACCEPT I WILL BE HERE FOREVER". "NO, PLEASE, DON'T LET THIS TO HAPPEN!" Immediately I heard a group of voices saying at the same time "This is for you to believe". I answered " I only believe in the Almighty God.

Then there was a silence.

The torment I was feeling stopped and I started to come down at a high speed again. I found myself back to the ceiling of the hospital room. This time my body was laying on a stretcher and I saw a nurse tapping its face and saying "Haydee, wake up!" I could clearly see her while I was moving down closer. Then I was softly dropped inside my body. The nurse was still tapping my face and calling my name. I opened my eyes and there she was right in front of my face. I looked at her eyes while I was thinking "I wish you knew where I'm coming from". I couldn't take the experience away from my mind and I was in a big concern about people in the world. I thought, "The Jehovah Witnesses deceived me, we are Spiritual Beings inside a flesh body and we come out of the body when we die!" People don't know what can happen to them. They should know about this!"

With this experience I learned that since I didn't believe in the Son of God I was in darkness. And there is where I went.

Matthew 8:11-12," And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”


Matthew 25:30 - And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



A few days later I was discharged from the hospital. I couldn't stop thinking about my amazing experience. I kept on repeating to myself, "I was deceived by the Jehovah Witnesses about no spirit coming out of the body when we died, and I just experienced it". I started to care for everyone in the world. I wanted to warn everybody about that dark place. I decided then to believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior and Lord and started visiting a Christian church.


After I have received Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior I woke up one night and got up from my bed. While walking toward the door I looked back at my bed and I saw my husband sleeping and to my surprise, my body was also there next to him. I realized I was out of my body again but this time I was not a formless energy moving at high speed. This time I had a body. I stretched my arms forward and looked at this new body. I then looked at my children's bedroom and I felt sad to leave them. I thought, "now when my children wake up they will see I'm dead. They will bury me and they will forget all about me. They don't have anybody to take good care of them, poor things".

I then knelt on the floor and started praying, "Please Lord, in the name of your son Jesus Christ, return me to my body. My children need me." I felt a force lifting me up slowly from the floor and positioned me on top of my material body on the bed and I started to come down slowly until I fell inside it. Right away I tried to open my eyes and move but the body was rigid like a wall . All efforts to move were in vain. I got desperate and I started to pray "Please Lord, my children need me; there is no one to take care of them properly, bring me back to life." I started feeling like needles inside my whole body. I felt the force of life and the beating of my heart. I then opened my eyes and this time they opened. Then I moved my fingers to check and they moved. I then jumped out of my bed amazed.

I have told this experience in different churches and many lives have been touched and have given their hearts to the Lord. To God be the glory.

/s/ Haydee Cortes


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Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 07:55 PM
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We are "spirit" we have a soul and we live in a physical body.

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 07:56 PM
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Shakyamunison
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So, now you are attacking other Christians.


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Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 07:56 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
So, now you are attacking other Christians.


Why do you characterize what I do as an attack?

Old Post Sep 15th, 2006 07:58 PM
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Shakyamunison
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do you characterize what I do as an attack?


Well, you are not showing them love. wink

YOU ATTACK EVERYONE!


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