Secret Rapture stated by Seventh Day Adventist, though they changed their view, but by the Jehovah's Wittiness for sure.......and there are a few others.
The term 'rapture' is not found in the Bible, but the theory is firmly based on scripture. Acceptance of this doctrine is indeed based upon a passage in Paul' s first letter to the Thessalonians.
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All of these Bible codes claims are strongly denied by skeptics and many religious groups as well.
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I am not driven by people’ s praise and I am not slowed down by people’ s criticism.
You only live once. But if you live it right, once is enough.
Make poverty history.
Stop aids, keep the promise.
Bible codes have been utterly disproved... I forgot the guys name, but he proved that if you take a large enough book like the Bible you can find any code you are looking for. He went ahead and used Herman Melville's Moby Dick as an example. He put the entire book in computer program like they do with the Bible and he found everything that Bible Code freaks found, from WW1 to the rise of Hitler to the Twin Towers & 9/11 etc. etc. etc.
It isn't hard to claim to have found a secret code after the fact that it has happened. If people insist that the Bible Codes are proof of the Bible being divine in origin than they must also accept that Moby Dick is divine in origin and just about any other 'thick' book.
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Not true. The author of the Bible Codes, Michael Drosnin was a complete idiot who found a few curious thing that could be reproduced. Drosnin, however, did not do an in depth search nor did he back it up with enough ELS intervals and nor did he show enough statistical proof. However, the Moby Dick codes are not nearly as profound or vast as the true Bible Codes. Michael Drosnin used the Masocretic text which lacks many of the codes because of minor errors and a few missing letters. Furthermore, Drosnin tried to use the Bible Codes to divine the future which forbidden in the Bible, and therefore should be invalidated However, the Dead Sea Scrolls reveal the true Bible Codes which Moby Dick is no match for. Real Bible Code researchers have found many things beyond the scope of Moby Dick or War and Peace.
A great example would be within the limitation of Isaiah 52-53 which contain the messianic prophecies of the 'suffering servant'. Ironically in a passage that specifically refers to Christ is encoded the names of all twelve disciples with the words 'The Disciples' (interestingly Judas Iscariot is not encoded there, but Matthias is), the three Marys, Joseph, Jesse, Obed, the priests who had him condemned (Annas and Caiaphas), Passover (when Christ was crucified), 'Let Him Be Crucified' is also found, 'cross', 'pierced', 'the Atonement Lamb' (Jesus as the fulfillment of the Passover), 'bread', and 'wine' (the Last Supper), and still other related words that could see as coincidence. But the what I have written shows an unbelievable amount of reference to Jesus within a very small amount of space which is ironically the most major messianic prophecy in the OT. Even Jewish rabbis have confirmed the validity of the Yeshua Codes I mentioned. Moby Dick has nothing close to that. Also, every messianic prophecy has the name of Jesus encoded within it several times.
You're gibbering. Let's just take one example: "Michael Drosnin used the Masocretic text which lacks many of the codes because of minor errors and a few missing letters." I hate to break your bubble, but there is no "correct" text of the Bible. The Massocretic text is by far the most standard text we have, however, and to throw it out and use another text (and which text do you think would be more appropriate, hm?) is an act of pure desperation.
The rest of your post is basically just vague handwaving ("this prophesy is so much better then any of the Moby Dick ones!"), so there's really nothing to be said for it. Your bringing up the Dead Sea scrolls is sort of cute, though. You've read them, right? Which of the scrolls do you think gives the secret of the Bible codes? If you mean that you should perform "code analysis" on them instead of the Massocretic, good luck with that. If "a few missing letters" made using the Massocretic a bad idea, then how you could use texts as fragmented as the Dead Sea Scrolls ... the mind boggles.
__________________ "Men curse the Communist Party, but eventually it may release them. If hell were endless, then God would be worse than our Secret Police."--Pastor Valentin
The missing of but a few letters from the Masocetic text throws off all the ELS intervals. These were mostly due to changes in spelling. However, the Dead Sea Scrolls predate the Masocretic text and are therefore, the most accurate text available to us. This is not desperation at all. Masocretic text is more available, but it is fact that the Dead Sea scrolls are more accurate. If we found an older text I am confident we would find more codes. My claim stands: Moby Dick does not have the detail or volume of codes as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Nor does it use as short of intervals.
Ah, so you haven't read the Dead Sea Scrolls, then. Never mind that they don't contain passages from all of the books of the Torah. They are too fragmented to do the analysis you want to do on them? The Masocretic have bad spelling? Missing letters? My God, if that's enough to throw off analysis, the idea of using the Dead Sea scrolls instead is beyond desperate.
(The idea that they must be more authoritative because they're earlier also deserves comment, but I have a class right now, so later.)
__________________ "Men curse the Communist Party, but eventually it may release them. If hell were endless, then God would be worse than our Secret Police."--Pastor Valentin
Too fragmented?
The entire book of Isaiah from which I pulled the codes is present in the Dead Sea Scrolls, unfragmented. Yes, some are fairly badly fragmented, but enough isn't.
The Masocretic Text does not mispell, the spelling in the Hebrew language changed over time just like they started adding spaces between words.
And it is easy to throw off the analysis with one missing letter. The Masocretic text can be used to find a lot of codes, but one letter missing in an ELS can make new words thereby destroying the code.
And actually the Masocretic and Dead Sea Scrolls are basically equally authoritative. There is only a difference of 169 letters between the two.
Perhaps an example is in order. You say that the Dead Sea Scrolls are older then the Masocretic texts. This is, of course, nothing but the truth. You say that we should use the Dead Sea scrolls to do Bible Code stuff with. Well...
Did you know that the Dead Sea scrolls contain two different versions of Jeremiah? You do now. One of them is essentially the Masocretic text. The other is significantly different; it is shorter, and events happen in different order. So how, exactly, do you propose to perform analysis on the Dead Sea variant of Jeremiah when even the Essenes couldn't agree on what Jeremiah was supposed to look like?
Well, that's probably an exception. Let's use the Dead Sea Scrolls to do analysis on Job! What's that you say? There is no complete copy of Job in the Dead Sea scrolls? The most complete document of Job consists of six small fragments? ... oh.
Deutronomy! I mean, hell, there are over thirty three Deutronomy scrolls in the Dead Sea collection! ... and if you put all thirty-three of them together, the results are still fragmented. Hm.
You've got better luck with Genesis, and phenominal luck with Isaiah; I know that we have a complete copy of Isaiah among the Dead Sea Scrolls, and I think we have a complete copy of Genesis.
Samuel? Interesting scroll. We've got one really big fragment of it, and hundreds of smaller fragments.
Kings? Ezekial? Fragments. Proverbs? Scraps here and there.
Ezra? One tiny scrap? Chronicles? One scrap.
Song of Songs? Well, we have two good copies. And what does "good" mean in the context of the Dead Sea Scrolls? Well, one contains 3:4-5, 7-11; 4:1-7; 6:11-12:7:1-7. The other contains 2:9-17; 3:1-2, 5, 9-10; 4:1-3, 8-11, 14-16; 5:1.
That's the Dead Sea Scrolls for you. My God! We can't use the Masocretic texts because they have "incorrect" words and different spellings, but using fragmented texts where entire pages are missing won't cause any problems? The ELS won't be be thrown off at all by that?
I said that the idea that the oldest documents were necessarily "better" deserved to be commented on. In this case, it's clearly nonsense. The Dead Sea Scrolls, as you probably know, were the religious texts of a Jewish group called the Essenes. They were, essentially, an apocalyptic cult that hung out in the desert. Now, all of the OT books were written before even our oldest fragments of them. There's no questtion of that. Is your theory, perhaps, that when they were first written down, they most closely resembled the Dead Sea Scroll varients, and that all of the Jewish scribes and copyists who weren't part of a fringe issolationist doomsday cult got together and conspired to change them?
Doesn't that strike you as sort of silly?
__________________ "Men curse the Communist Party, but eventually it may release them. If hell were endless, then God would be worse than our Secret Police."--Pastor Valentin
Last edited by Gregory on Oct 13th, 2006 at 05:19 PM
Well JesusIsAlive. I dont know If I agree with 100% of what you preach. But I follow God. I support God. I support the Christian faith. I know the truth about Jesus. I have Proof of Jesus, his faith. His father. I talk to and have found God in my life.
All I have to say to the christian people is Keep trying. Our job aint over. Hopfully soon some of these people will realize that they make " NO F*CKING SENSE" of anything in life. If you people cant stand united with fellow christian's, and other beliefes. then get the **** out.
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Oct 12th, 2006 12:37 AM
