So when it says in LTs bio that he made SS one with the universe as opposed to your interpretation that he turned SS into a universe i take it your stance changes?
I suppose youre going to try and dismiss this official source because it doesnt fit in with your interpretation right? Funnily enough the scene is perfectly in line with the handbooks summary. In the LT scene in question he told SS he was going to give him a connection to the infinite. That tells you conclusively that hes going to hook SS up to something. There was no mention of him transforming SS into anything.
Thanos absorbed the UNIVERSE on panel and then re-emitted it:
Genis Vell was threatening the very fabric of the universe because quite interestingly for my argument, his rebirth was linked to matter from the Big Bang
Phoenix has materialized the 616 universe from outside, right into the palm of her hand as she stood in the White Hot Room intact. Conclusively showing you she has more power at her disposal than the energies contained within 616. Despite that you would try and match up instances of people becoming one with universes to it? Despite an avatars proven ability to materialize 616 in her palm INTACT, demonstrating control of that scale of atoms you'd try and argue against her being able to shape a universe if she had sufficient matter to hand?
At the end of the day its not debatable that an avatar could destroy a universe if that was their will. Its also completely feasible given Jeans feats that she could shape a universe.
Given the Phoenix Force itself powered Jean to do those feats whilst simultaneously powering avatars across the multiverse AND by canon being the life force of reality, how can anyone argue that the Force couldnt create a universe when its conclusively been shown on panel being the power behind the Big Bang and the point is stated in dozens of titles?
YOU CANT!!!!
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Last edited by GalacticStorm on Oct 26th, 2006 at 07:17 PM
The Big Bang, the energies which create the universe derive from Phoenix. That is canon.
A Phoenix avatar has been shown on panel to be able to manipulate the matter of a universe in the palm of her hand. She materialized it from outside the WHR, to inside within the palm of her hand intact, displaying not only her ability to manipulate matter on an atomic level as stated, but also the fact that she wields a power greater than that contained within that little universe she held.
Given those two points, NOONE can credibly argue against the point that the Force can create a universe. Its power provides the energy and matter (Hence the oft quoted line that its "the sum and substance of all that lives") and its avatars have been shown to be able to manipulate matter at the scale required.
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Where is the big bang on any of the scans?
Where is anything to suggest a big bang?
The Wathcher says the Phoenix ignites the universe, not creates it.
I know which scan you mean, please post it again so i can look at it.
The Phoenix Force exists both as a Consciousness in the white hot room and at a universal level as the ambient life force of reality. (The universal manifestation deriving from the central consciousness)
Every creation cycle the universal Phoenix as we know it is reborn into creation as the Big Bang:
Because it is not only the sum and substance of all life, the energies that spawned the universe, but it is also a consciousness from the WHR from which derive all the other alternate Forces.
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I seen Pre-Retcon Beyonder creating an INFINITE UNIVERSE On Panel.
Beyonder CREATING/BECOMING a UNIVERSE to which OUR OWN is as a DROPLET of Water to the Ocean (please log in to view the image)
"Masses form in the Void, Stars, Suns, and Planets...LIFE Arises"
In it, an INFINITE number of MULTI-VERSES are spiralling upward, while below lies Oblivion, (the ultimate Abstract in terms of everlasting), swallowing Multi-verses that collapse, are nullified, have a weakened Anchor (like Atleza) ect... (please log in to view the image)
These are MULTI-VERSES!
When I realized that Thanos DID in fact, Absorb MORE than just a UNIVERSE, that he actually absorbed ALL he could (which is the MULTI-VERSE) (please log in to view the image)
He absorbs Eternity and Infinity and there is still Space and star stuff behind (please log in to view the image)
This is not a designed attack, he's saying it himself "it's Out of Control"
Like a raging drunk, who's not selective in a brawl, anything in the way goes, and with that KIND of Power, that means everything goes. (like it did)
Here it continues,
"For IF this BAND (LT, Eternity/Infinity) Could Defy Me...might not OTHERS* be equally Foolish?" (please log in to view the image)
"Could I ALLOW ANY to question my divine Authority?"
See...He's absorbing MORE SPACE now, where is this SPACE coming from if he already absorbed ALL of Space and Time?
I'll answer that,
It has to be coming from the Multi-verse, there is no other way to look at it.
*(That's WHO these OTHERS are that MIGHT be equally foolish, the rest of Space, in other words, the MULTI-VERSE)
WHO else COULD question his authority, except anyone left in the MULTI-VERSE.
CAN'T be the Universe, he just ABSORBED the Universe (Eternity/Infinity remember)
Now your saying to yourself, fine, that conclusively despicts Thanos absorbing the Multi-verse.
But Mr M showed scans of the Cosmic Vortex, where an INFINITE number of Multi-verses are,
How could Thanos have absorbed ALL he could, when he ONLY absorbed ONE Multi-verse?
Now we go back to the OMNIVERSAL structure:
The OMNI-VERSE and the rest of the Multi-verses rest with in the Cosmic Vortex.
See those little Purple Balls, thats where Atleza is (the Cosmic Anchor of the "616" Multi-verse)...
and every little Purple Ball is the Domain of an Anchor of a Multi-verse ...
Each Domain is Outside the Multiverse...Untouched by Space or Time....
Anything Outside the Blue Balls is Untouched by Space & Time,
which Multi-Eternity/Infinity encompass.
See how the Blue Balls (Multi-verses) are separate from each other, and how the little Purple Balls (the Anchor's domain) are separated from the Blue Balls.
This is why Atleza, Gamora and Warlock were untouched, they were there, in A little Purple Ball, (the Anchors domain, Outside it's respective Multi-verse)
This why Thanos could not absorb more, he absorbed everything within that Blue Ball (a Multi-verse) and evidently, he could not reach any furthur (please log in to view the image)
"Nothing Remained"
Remember he was "Out of Control"
He kept on absorbing till there was nothing left for him to absorb (literally), HAD he been able to absorb everything Outside his Multi-verse, it would have been no problem with TOAA's power,
But Thanos was NOT able to do it, meaning that's as FAR as TOAA permitted his power to be used, absorption of a Multi-verse and Remaking that same Multi-verse, even though being the most powerful being in the Omni-verse.
Mankind is the key and not the Phoenix Force. There were five keys and Jean was the only key that touched cosmic hood - the touchstone. Bobby was the potential.
Eternity said it himself, the abstracts planned this all along: eventually a species would evolve to replace the abstracts.
Where on panel? Quote that exact phrase by either the Stranger, Prosh, or Eternity that Phoenix brings this about. An EXACT QUOTE and none of your misguided interpretations.
So does the Celestials. XMF said it already the Celestials were working for the abstracts to seed creation including the human race - NOT PF.
By the way, Kubik wasn't even afraid of the Dark Phoenix. He later was wary of coming near a Celestial since it could destroy them. LOL. Then they go on and run into the Living Tribunal who Kubik remarks as the most powerful being yet still a servant to TOAA. Phoenix Force wasn't even at the top of the food chain.
More nonsense. Good grief. Phoenix Force doesn't represent all the energy in the universe. And life doesn't mean the same thing to the abstracts.
That's a dumb comparison. A more accurate one would be just because Wolverine can shred the Hulk into pieces that doesn't mean the Hulk can't kick Logan's butt or another Hulk clone.
Wrong. Eternity is a sentient being that can fight back. Just because you can smash stones with your fist, it doesn't mean your more powerful than the Thing.
And please do provide where it says that Eternity was birthed due to Phoenix Force. Or that Eternity is weaker.
Phoenix avatars have been getting kicked around by the likes of Thor, Modred, and Quasar. The Force has been knocked around by alien ships and weaponry. Even captured and used as their battery.
LOL. Nothing a time traveler with mind controlling powers can't do. Oh, and if the Ultra Force and X-Men hadn't destroyed that alien ships computers, Phoenix Force would still be running their power core. LOL.
Universes? More guess work again.
The IG is same power that only the Tribunal could stop? Who stopped Thanos or any wielder at their might? NO one else but the Tribunal. What's PF going to do? Try to heal Thanos? Wow, that'll show the Titan.
Who'd Phoenix fight that's comparable to Eternity and Death? Sublime?
Wow, Rhino can smash rocks to pieces I bet he can crush the Thing as well.
Who? Nightmare? Or are you refering to when he treated Nightmare and a mystical Juggernaut like gnats and blasted them away?
Magus with 5 Cubes isn't inconsequential.
Few when he's not hungry. Stood toe to toe with Tenebrous. Won in his fights with In-Betweener and Tyrant. Stalemate Aggamotto in his realm.
Like one damn time compared to the Force getting pawned numerous times. Why don't you bring up that What If involved with Korvac to try and degrade LT some more. Lies. Lies.
Force lost to alien ship.
Force was crushed by Onslaught.
Jean/PF was killed by Magneto.
Wow, so your trying to excuse her by saying it's part of destiny?
Why wasn't this afforded to the Living Tribunal against Korvac? In fact, you even omitted parts such as Death and the UN during that arc to say that LT wasn't all powerful. But PF is and always will be to you.
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Last edited by WhiteWitchKing on Oct 27th, 2006 at 12:37 AM
Maybe not in your world...which always runs like a backward clock:
- OMG, Phoenix is all powerful
- your just angry because Phoenix is all power
- why are you bothering [insert debater]. I already "spanked" you in that other thread. You know Phoenix wins 100000000/10.
Who does? If Claremount and Stan Lee told you Eternity would slap Phoenix around in a fight, you'd pile their office with essays about how wrong they were. Then comment about how you supposedly spanked them.
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Oct 26th, 2006 06:58 PM
Where on panel? Quote that exact phrase by either the Stranger, Prosh, or Eternity that Phoenix brings this about. An EXACT QUOTE and none of your misguided interpretations. 
