Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Phoenix Force was also blown to pieces by a Shiar weapon,
curbstomped by an Alien ship
handled by 6 heroes,
and nearly erased from existence by Galactus' tech.
That Merlyn is disconnected from the Energy Matrix.
Matrix Merlyn >to infinity> current Merlyn.
Which she probably manipulated into being so for some yet unknown purpose.
False.
Blink never did anything to MJJ.
And Blink didn't blow up Fury on her own either,
there was a stipulation involved (I explained) you seemed to consciously ignore.
... That's just dumb, I'll give you that one.
Thor is no cosmic God.
Again, there was a stipulation involved.
You can't just say IW took out a Celestial without explaining how she did it,
that's misleading the fact imo.
Early 70's garbage.
False.
Beyonder didn't obey anyone,
at the end of the issue he clearly returns to Earth.
On top of that, that entire scenario was conjured by Beyonder himself,
in order to make X and company believe what they thought to be true,
fact is though, Beyonder mind raped all of them
into thinking he was an Inhuman/Mutatnt,
next arc will tell us why exactly.
False.
Maker was taken out by Thanos.
And like Thanos clearly pointed out,
it was only possible because the Maker made itself extremely vulnerable
by taking on Mortal form, it became partially insane and weak.
Like the Spectre?
Anywho,
Bring up all of his under achievements and we'll examine them one by one.
Coulda sworn that was a joke.
Without the empowerment of Galactus' ship or the CCU,
Korvac wasn't all that.
SS defeated him actuaklly,
but this is inconsequential when it was the Gems themselves
that inadvertently helped SS do that.
Stupid statement, by an ignorant writer, not a low showing.
Elaborate.
False.
No Infinite died to re-arrange any Galaxy.
An Infinite sacrificed itself to become one with life,
that was it's main objective, to experience the wonderment of limitation/mortality,
but beyond this,
it's death would repair the countless Galaxies across the Multiverse
that were ravaged by them.
The list goes on? ... so give me more.
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Last edited by Mr Master on Mar 19th, 2009 at 06:55 AM
The abstract one is true, how often are universal elders always constantly decieved and tricked lol. Although regardlss of marvel's opinion, grandmaster is not Galactus equal. I know its going agaisnt on-panel verification but how the hell could marvel publish that lol.
Everything could be a joke. I did not find that funny especially when we see Hulk punching a watcher.
Galactus vs He
He might not be as powerful without it but he was still powerful enough to recreate a planet size object with no effort , and had the power to destroy planets with his smaller blast. - Clearly not your best Korvac but still much more powerful than the Surfer.
Stupid? sure but what I listed are suppose to stupid . It happened that's the point
most of these abstract are concept of time , space , death etc. Yet often they get defeated by plot device.
for example :
-Thanos obtaining the IG - Surely eternity , Chronos whould have seen this coming and be able to stop him before he gets the Gem
-Eternity being worried about Thor with power gem - When at that time he could have stopped him easy
Stuff like that where omnipresence , and omnipotent are notting but silly words thrown out there
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Restore all Galaxy in the multiverse is speculation at best. Consider he had to sacrifice himself.
What we seen on panel is one planet being restored with no LIFE.
and the statement " I can bring new life to this sphere ... and others"
- Not being able to restore LIFE is a worse feat
This is IF vs WCP - I shouldn't have posted those list. I got carried away by ID, anyway if someone makes a thread about this then sure I will post more.
Post the rest of the comic where it shows Quasar floating around in Oblivion's realm and theorizing that Magus may have manipulated him rather than the Ultimate Nullifier itself. I had the scan on my laptop when it died on me.
So what? So what if the IG allows you to manipulate energies? That doesn't make the IG capable of resetting the entire Multiverse! What is so hard to understand about this? Black Alice can manipulate the Spectreforce, that does not make her capable of Multiversal feats like Spectre! Cap can redirect the force of Hulk's punch back into his face, that does not make him more powerful than Hulk!
The ability to manipulate does not equate to a higher overall scope of power.
Consider these other factors: (i) Adam Warlock was able to operate outside the influence of the full Infinity Gauntlet when Nebula possessed it; and (ii) Thanos himself found the full Infinity Gauntlet's power on Maelstrom completely ineffective because Maelstrom had combined himself with the being Anomaly and became the avatar of Oblivion. I can go on and on, but the bottom-line is this: Black Alice > Spectre = false cause fallacy.
So, instead of taking what he says as true, we should have the artist draw millions of worlds to prove his point?
Actually, that's already false. As last I checked, plant life is life. Also, we saw no humans/etc, because they were looking at a pond. Not one person who inhabited the planet should be anywhere near there.
Why don't you go through Quasar #40 and find it for me. I went back after reading your post and found nothing. Look through it twice. Nothing. If it's in another issue of Quasar, then point to it or post scans. Demonoid has Quasar torrents.
Well **** Black Alice. Black Alice ain't the IG. And neither did Spectre looked at BA and determined a fight with her could potentially destroy existence. Neither did the embodiment of the existence ask for help against Black Alice. When's the last time BA made the great deities of DCU look like chumps? LOL.
That argument can go either way. Neither you nor I can tell unless the UN does a multiversal nullification and the IG user can or can't bring the multiverse back. As of now, we have the IG manipulating nullification energy and contains it with a thought. However, this is not the IG's only great feat. There's plenty of others to show its scope of power.
See above.
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Last edited by WhiteWitchKing on Mar 20th, 2009 at 06:23 AM
If you want to use claim that he "repair the countless Galaxies across the Multiverse " as Mr.M stated yes you whold need a better statement than that. It could easily mean all planet in the this universe , in the galaxy that they manipulated in that universe etc.
By life I and / Infinite meant animal/sentient life which the Infinite could clearly not make.
Should have it downloaded by tonight.
No. The argument can't go the other way. The ability to manipulate force does not equate to higher scope of power. False cause fallacy. Black Alice manipulated Spectreforce. That doesn't magically imbue her with a higher scope of power than the Wrath of God. Black Alice isn't in some superior class over an aspect of God. Cap manipulated Hulk's strength and momentum against Hulk. That doesn't magically imbue Cap with a higher scope of power than Hulk. Cap isn't in some 100++ class over Hulk.
When you relinquish this faulty argumentation, you have only one thing to measure scope of power by: feats. Spectre has feats of power that logically show he has a higher scope of power than Black Alice. Hulk has feats of power that logically show he has a higher scope of power than Cap. The Ultimate Nullifier as a feat of power that logically shows it has a higher scope of power than the Infinity Gauntlet. Because NOTHING the IG did shows that it could even come anywhere close to resetting the entire Marvel Multiverse. Nuff said.
You mean when you dodged the argument that Adam Warlock can operate outside the awareness of a full IG user like Nebula? Or when you dodged the argument that Maelstrom was completely immune to the effects of a full IG user like Thanos? The dodges were so quick and subtle I looked for them and still couldn't find them.
LOL. So if Lucifer Morningstar or Mxy manipulated Spectre's power, it has nothing to do with LM or Mxy being greater than Spectre? Thanos can manipulate Hulk's strength and momentum against Hulk too. And?
Neither BA nor Cap is greater than their adversaries you presented because we know they're not. We have plenty of examples. And we've got plenty of examples to suggest that Thanos and LM or Thanos is greater than their opponents.
What you're saying regarding scope of power would be true if that's the highest feat the IG has. But it's not.
Now we're getting somewhere. The UN has one feat that the IG does not have. When an IG tries to affect the multiverse and fail, then call me.
The IG has feats that show it's higher in scope than the UN. Or was LT delusional when he said he wanted to avoid a conflict with Warlock over the IG?
LOL. What's there to talk about? Warlock was outside it's influence because of his connection with the Soul Gem and Nebula's slow to adapt compared to other wielders. Even Thanos manipulated her into making a foolish wish that nearly cost her the Gauntlet. Strange also preserved them through a spell, but when she found out she made she he wasn't able to do it again. As for Maelstrom (agent of Oblivion, cosmic awareness gained from Eon, and his status as Anomolly) surviving Thanos' blast, Thanos was not verse in the IG's power like all new users of the IG. Maelstorm even noted that he should not dismiss the IG's power if Thanos was adept in it's use. What you have is Maelstrom with his cosmic awareness and status at the time survived one blast from an unskilled IG user and then left. On the other hand, Thanos further into IG series stomped the collective abstracts and even Eternity. We have feats to suggest him stomping Maelstrom if Thanos was more adept to the IG.
We have feats, like we have feats to show the IG is higher in scope than the UN. Just cause you want to ignore the IG's power by using a false cause fallacy argument that doesn't mean that's the case when it comes to IG and UN. Just because we didn't the IG reverse a multiversal attack by the UN, it doesn't mean it can't. Until an IG wielder tries and fails or tries to destroy the multiverse and fail, it goes either way. But you know what, there's plenty of feats to support the IG's scope higher than the UN. An incomplete IG (without the reality gem) manipulated the UN's power with a thought and merged two universes. 30 Cosmic Cube's were still not as powerful as the IG. LT had to intervene where as the rest of the MU cosmics got literally pimp slapped by IG wielders.
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Last edited by WhiteWitchKing on Mar 21st, 2009 at 02:35 AM
Or it could mean every planet they've ever screwed with...
He says he will create new life, and bring life to that spheres and others, but can't restore the countless others that have lost their life.
That's not even close to a bad feat.
it could. But we can't know for certain which was my point the wording is to vague.
He says he can't bring back life that existed before..... and when he recreated life he could not bring back sentient life back he had to let evolution take it's course.
He clearly says he CAN"T and not won't
the reason why this is a bad showing for them it's that Infinite were suppose to be > Eternity
But he's talking about every other world... 'the others'
You got a scan that says that? Haven't read the arc in a while.
Besides, wouldn't he be doing that for every planet lost anyway?
Ya. Did I say that?
But they were over Eternity...
And creating things/etc doesn't mean that you're instantly above someone. If you're clearly above someone in battle, then you're not below them because you can't create life, nor is it relevant to battle prowess.
My original argument was that we can't know if this meant in the whole Multiverse like Mr.M was claiming
Valid point ....... But when you go above Galactus level and have ability to defeats abstract concept I would think creating life is a minor task that even herald can possible do.
But maybe that just me
am kinda getting bored talking about this to tell you truth. I respect your opinion on your view of that situation
but I still see it as a bad showing for a multiversal level character.
Whitewitchking and Mr Master: you've been caught. You're suggesting that a full IG user's limitations when confronting Adam Warlock and Maelstrom is not dispositive of its power, because it is the user's (Nebula, inexperienced Thanos) limitations that are being reflected in those instances.
That doesn't sound familiar? Haven't I been asserting this whole time that Quasar is an inexperinced user of the Ultimate Nullifier? That any deficiency in result is much more attributable to Qusar's inability to use it properly?
So why is it that we can excuse the IG's shortcomings and not the UN's? There's no reason at all. Unless you're desperate to ignore that one artifact reset the entire Marvel Multiverse and the other artifact's greatest claim to fame was the theoretic ability to lay waste to the 616 universe when confronting the Living Tribunal. Funny, Zom and even Power Gem WM Thor were both suggested to be capable of laying waste to 616 Eternity.
What else do you have? Merging two universes? Please. The best thing you had was Magus turning the UN's energies back onto Quasar. Unfortunately, Quasar suffered from his own personal limitations and any failure is more attributable to him. Which should sound familiar, because its the same excuse you give to Nebula and Thanos when dealing with Adam Warlock and Maelstrom respectively.
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
I have no idea what I've been caught in, but whatever.
First, I never even addressed the scenarios you're using as a base.
Second, literally on panel Thanos clearly pointed out
the reason why Warlock snuck undetected pass Nebula,
and YES, it was because of Nebula's damged mind,
Thanos went on to say that would never have worked if he had the IG.
So .. so much for that scene.
Onto Maelstrom,
Maelstrom didn't do anything, like at all,
he got obliterated, then somehow reappeared, talked some ish,
then left, that's it.
What we do know is,
that Maelstrom clearly stated that the IG was above his power.
The question is, why/how did Maelstrom survive being blasted by the IG?
No one can know, since disclosure was never given to us on panel or otherwise,
but IMO, it's because he was Oblivion's agent,
Maelstrom might've been annilated/erased in that blast,
and yet,
Oblivion could've easily just poped Maelstrom back into reality,
since Oblivion is the God of nothingess, of the realm of nothingness.
Also, Mephisto made a comment in that moment,
he said it was nothing but the cosmic wind (whatever that means)
perhaps Thanos had a moment of uncertanty (you know his sub-conscious weakness)
and this made him believe maelstrom was still there for another second.
Meh, I can't prove either conclusively, but those are my opinions.
Reed never used the UN before either,
and still managed to crack & re-create the prime Multiverse,
so this experience argument I'm not really buying.
Especially since Quasar's mind, atleast at that time for sure, should've been more attuned to cosmic geopgraphy than Reed's,
and that's what it takes to effectively harness the UN.
That's not the IG's greatest claim to fame.
Defeating the power of the prime Multiverse (616 Eternity) in one shot is,
the LT stating it makes one the supreme being beneath him is,
the LT having to pause (due to its God-status) before passing judgement on the IG is,
the LT stating that if the IG is formed ...
... it would bring the demise of the Ultraverse Multiverse and the 616 Multiverse is.
I mean, Rune froze the entire 616 timestream with just the Time Gem,
and Eternity stated that with time, just the Power Gem was a threat to the Multiverse.
So, what's so difficult to believe the IG is leagues above these feats/threats.
That was an incomplete IG ...
and let's not forget one of those two Universes was 616.
According to Thanos only a tatse of Godhood in comparison with the 6 Gemed IG.
I disagree.
And please, if you're gonna use my name in your replies,
be thorough about what I'm saying true debater.
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... That's just dumb, I'll give you that one.
Mar 19th, 2009 06:53 AM
. It happened that's the point
