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How did WTC7 fall if this Madrid Tower survived an intense fire
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Classic NES
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building 7 wasn't hit by a plane!


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 12:07 AM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Or, alternatively, because the damage was not minimal. It was actually extensive. Statements otherwise are either misinformed or lies.


When a building burns for 19 hours in a blazing inferno, that's not significant damage?


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 12:13 AM
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Final Blaxican
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No, it depends on various factors.

How hot was the fire, how durable the building matieral is ect.


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 01:06 AM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blax X
No, it depends on various factors.

How hot was the fire, how durable the building matieral is ect.



On the meridian plaza fire:

"It was the largest high-Rise office building fire in mordern american history"


"More than 11 hours of uncontrolled fire growth and spread, interior fire fighting efforts were abondoned due to risk of structural collapse"


Which did not happen mind you.

"From the 22nd floor to the 29th floor, the fire consumed all combustible material"

"Prior to deciding to evacuate the building, fire fighters notices significant structural displacement in the stair enclosures.

http://www.interfire.org/res_file/pdf/Tr-049.pdf



"After The fire, there was evident significant structural damage to horizontal steel members and floor sections on most of the fire damaged floors. Beams and girders--sagged and twisted--Some as much as three feet, under sever fire exposures, developed fissures in the reinforced concrete floor assembelies in many places."

Despite this extrodinary exposure, the columns continued to support their load


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Last edited by Classic NES on Oct 25th, 2006 at 01:33 AM

Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 01:24 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blax X
No, it depends on various factors.

How hot was the fire, how durable the building matieral is ect.


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 02:22 AM
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Classic NES
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I just posted a damage report and a link describing the damage in detail.


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Last edited by Classic NES on Oct 25th, 2006 at 02:44 AM

Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 02:38 AM
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Classic NES
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Are you asking for a damage report on wtc 7?


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 03:02 AM
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Final Blaxican
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Damage Report:

The type of metal is not described, so that particular metal used for that particular building might be able to perform better under pressure and heat then the steel used in the Towers.

Link:

... That thing is 113 pages long, if I am not mistaken. I skimmed few the first twenty pages or so and didn't fidn anything about the temperature nor the steel used in the building. The burden of proof is on you, so you are going to have to go read through that report yourself first, find the answers to the questions I asked, and come back to me :P


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 03:05 AM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blax X
Damage Report:

The type of metal is not described, so that particular metal used for that particular building might be able to perform better under pressure and heat then the steel used in the Towers.


The metal was described in the document I gave you, it was strucutral steel reinforced with concrete.




quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blax X

Link:



... That thing is 113 pages long, if I am not mistaken. I skimmed few the first twenty pages or so and didn't fidn anything about the temperature nor the steel used in the building. The burden of proof is on you, so you are going to have to go read through that report yourself first, find the answers to the questions I asked, and come back to me :P


I did read the report, your emphasis seems to now lay on the things that the report did not cover in detail. The temperture can only be estimated by looking at the smoke and the effect it had on the structure.
So, i generally answered most of your questions except for the exact temperture.


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 03:36 AM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Emperor Ashtar
The metal was described in the document I gave you, it was strucutral steel reinforced with concrete.


What type of structural steel? Different minerals in different steels increase or decrease structural support.






quote: (post)
I did read the report, your emphasis seems to now lay on the things that the report did not cover in detail. The temperture can only be estimated by looking at the smoke and the effect it had on the structure.
So, i generally answered most of your questions except for the exact temperture. [/B]


Im not deliberatly making questions that are not in your report. if that is what you were trying to say.

And yes, that is how temperature can be measured. When fires occur, the officials tend to measure how hot th fire was for statistical purposes.

I.E. next time use steel that is more resistant to this temperature, or that temperature.


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 04:04 AM
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Classic NES
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blax X
What type of structural steel? Different minerals in different steels increase or decrease structural support.


Basic everyday structural stainless steel, reinforced with concrete.
The construction of the building was covered in the document.







quote: (post)
Originally posted by Blax X



And yes, that is how temperature can be measured. When fires occur, the officials tend to measure how hot th fire was for statistical purposes.

I.E. next time use steel that is more resistant to this temperature, or that temperature.


Basic melting point of typical structural steel; ~825ºC (1517ºF). The fire must have been around that since the girders were indicated to be twisted and the concrete destroyed.


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Last edited by Classic NES on Oct 25th, 2006 at 04:17 AM

Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 04:13 AM
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Classic NES
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EDIT: The temperture of the fire isn't as relevant, what matters is what temperture did the fire heat the structural steel. And were straying too far from the intial question which was why did wtc 7 fall despite taking less damage then the madrid building. I used the meridian plaza building as an example, because I t clearly suffered more damage and had burned for far longer than wtc 7.


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Old Post Oct 25th, 2006 04:45 AM
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BigRed
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I took, once took I should say, a vested interest in the whole 9/11 conspiracy theories.

I did tons and tons of research on both sides of the debate and for a while was either convinced or on the fence.

I am now of the opinion, that the goverment were not the ones "pulling the strings" so to speak, on 9/11. They may have known 9/11 was going to happen, I don't doubt that, but they didn't actually do it themselves.

Old Post Jan 22nd, 2007 08:34 PM
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Reincarnated
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Bomb-sniffing dogs were pulled out of the building the day before, mass evacuations of the each tower were done about a week prior, stock-put options were increasing for boeing, the owner of the towers put terrorist insurance on the towers (about a month or something before) and (when 9/11 happened) he wanted each plane crashing to count as seperate acts of terrorism, which he got billions from, plane jet fuel could not have weakened or melted the supports, there is videos showing little bursts shooting out of the sides of the tower seconds before it collapsing, several several interviews with people in the trade center that heard second, third, fourth, etc explosions, I haven't even mentioned Iraq, oil, motives for the government to do it, Israel, etc), so many more reasons, more than I have the time to list.

Old Post Jan 31st, 2007 05:00 PM
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