Again sabes was easily just getting overconfident.. that fight was over cause creed pretty much thought the fight was ALREADY over.. logan was on the ground, bleeding and half broken... wolverine being able to gut an overconfident sabes means near nothing when during the FIGHT part of the fight sabes was kicking his ass.
on panal, not off.
creed didn't bother with claws in their first encounter...
wolverine knew he was there.. hell he knew it all night.. in fact he was prepped for a fight when he CALLED SABRETOOTH OUT... that right there should be enough to prove sabretooth's superiority.
It's been stated in multiple X-men books that sabretooth beat wolverine every single time they met til wolverine joined the x-men.
is it more? I mean seriously? is it?
sabretooth made wolverine run away in their first encounter in the mutant massacre.. wolverine's needed help from power pack to fight sabes on at least two occasions, sabretooth left logan for dead in their first fight, stalemated logan in their fight in uncanny 213, PWNED logan in h2h in wolverine 90, completetely kicked the crap out of logan in wolverine 126, was doing it again in 145, did it yet AGAIN in wolverine 166, left logan for dead in wolverine (vol.2) 19, and was about to do it again in wolverine (vol.2) 50.
If logan has more wins they're definitely circumstantal or off panal.. period.
the only way logan beats creed is when he has an edge like admantium over bone... when they're on a level playing field.. it's more often then not sabretooth's game all the way baby.
and common sense would indicate that when sabrertooth's boasting about all the times he's beaten logan in the past and logan doesn't say anything to dispute it, that he's probably not lying..
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Jason says:
what am I supposed to do?
Jon says:
clean your apt before she moves in? buy some pink bed sheets? scented candles?
Jason says:
wait, u have pink bed sheets?
Jon says:
ive said too much
Prove it. That is not stated or alluded to ANYWHERE in that comic.
Wrong again since Creed does not state or even think that ANYWHERE in that issue. I'd like to know where you get these ideas.
??? What are you on man? Logan was on the ground diving out of the way of Creed's initail attack. (Which came from behind once again.) Wolverine then kicks a leaping Creed away from him into the darkness. Creed than slashed Logan's back from behind, which threw Logan to the ground. Logan gets right back up. Creed punches him in the ribs. Some ribs break (not half broken by any means) Creed slashes Logan's face and then Wolvy kicks Creed in the head. They are then standing toe to toe staring right at each other. Wolverine was not beaten he was standing right in front of Sabretooth.
You make it sound like Creed stopped fighting after Logan kicked him in the face. I dont know why in the hell you think that. After they have a STANDOFF Wolverine roars at Creed and slashes him across the face. CREED SLASHES BACK AT WOLVERINE, but Wolverine DUCKS THE SLASH and evicerates Creed, lifting him over his head. Face facts Jinzin Creed got gutted because Wolverine ducked Creed's attack, not because Creed stood around letting it happen. If anything Creed knew the fight was REALLY on after Wolverine roars in his face.
A FIGHT isn't over until someone verbally gives up or physically cant continue. Non of those occurred anywhere in that fight until Wolverine savages Creed's body. During the initial stages of the fight Creed only hits Wolverine 3 times after which Wolverine hit him back and then stood toe to toe with him. The fight was nowhere near over and Creed was well aware of that fact.
On panel YES. Off panel we DONT KNOW.
Go back and read Wolverine # 10 again. Sabretooth does slash his claws across Wolverine's chest. So yer wrong.
If Sabretooth came out of the water directly behind Logan and blinsided him I sincerely doubt Wolverine knew where he was. Pretty obvious. Creed used the water to hide his scent.
I own every X-Book and I can't find a reference to what yer talking about. The only reference I know of is in Uncanny # 213 where Pyslocke witnesses their first battle. That is the only fight she speaks of.
That's bull$hit and you know it. Wolverine had Sabretooth pinned and helpless before he left so Wolverine technically won that fight. Two he had to get the Morlock healer back to the X-Mansion which is stated in that very same issue. He didn't run from anything he had more important things to do. Three Wolverine was in very bad shape for that fight. During the entire Massacre he is still hurting from his fight with Deathstrike. You should know that.
That's more crap. Powerpack didn't help Logan fight creed during the massacre issue, they merely pass by Wolverine on his way to fight creed if my memory serves. And the only other time that fight happens in power pack it happened like last year in a kids book which is not in continuity. I'm also reasonably sure that fight was nowhere near coming close to completion. Power Pack just intervened without Wolverine needing or wanting their help.
True, but both were knocked at the completion of the fight thanks to Wolverine tackling Creed over a cliff. Creed just woke up first. That was also Wolverine's first ever loss and it was before he aquired any fighting skill in his own words.
Wolverine left Creed for dead in Logan: Shadow Society. Whats yer point?
They were dead even.
No he didn't. 1 Creed was using claws and Wolverine wasn't. 2 Creed wasn't holding back and Wolverine was holding back A LOT. 3 When Wolverine finally got pissed enough not to hold back he turned the tide of the fight in a single move by plowing Creed's face into a wall with a nasty throw. That fight ends with someone labotamized and it wasn't Logan.
After being newly upgraded.
Wolverine wrecked Creed in that fight BADLY. Creed hit him twice and then Logan unleashed the fury.
No one won that fight. That fight got stopped by the Shiver Man. Creed had just been upgraded by Weapon X AGAIN with speed, strength, and durability enhancements. Wolverine is also recovering from his ordeal in the Cell, his confrontation with Mauvis, and being shot hundreds of times by Weapon X soldiers. All Wolverine says is he doesn't know if he can take Creed this time. He never says he is beaten.
True. However Wolverine wrecked Creed TWICE in X-Men during the same time period.
??? What are you talking about? We wont know who wins this time till Part 6. So far they are dead even with Wolverine landing most of the hits and showing far more skill. The only thing Creed did that was noteworthy was ripping Logan's spine out of the back of his neck and Wolverine recovered from that instantly. He didn't even hit the ground.
Yet Wolverine has beaten Creed before he ever had adamantium or claws during his spy days. And he later obliterated an enhanced adamantium Creed when he himself had no metal bones. And he has beaten Creed when both had the metal.
Which is false since Sabretooth usually makes sure the playing field isn't fair and Wolverine still manages to win the majority of the time anyway.
It was pointless boasting which made no sense anyway as Wolverine has left Creed for dead just as many times. Wolverine's response was spot on. "If I'm still alive obviously yer doin something wrong."
Last edited by riceroost on Feb 18th, 2007 at 01:30 AM
Not to mention in new x-men Logan states the creed is lucky there in the hell fire club or he would kill him on the spot and sabertooth did not have any thing to say to it and wolverine seemed very confident in his statment
Are these the same senses that are better than Spider-Man and Daredevil combined? The senses where Logan can hear, see and smell people from miles but are trumped by good old H2O? Seems it's more of Creed's skills than fooling Logan's senses.
Is this the same healing factor that instantly heals Logan from anything but a nuke? You all can't have it both ways. You can't say that explosions and class 100 punches won't effect Logan but then say he lost because of previously healed wounds from earlier fights.
The fact is that Logan still was helped.
Ah, now Logan didn't know how to fight yet.
The fact that Creed was getting the better of Logan shows who was winning. Is a Wolverine fan actually complaining about another character getting upgrades?!
All Creed did was tear out Logan's spine but he healed instantly. Hm, it seems you were calling foul earlier in your post about Logan being "in very bad shape for that fight" and "he is still hurting from his fight with Deathstrike". Sounds a bit contradictory to me.
Fair playing field?! Logan's senses, speed and agility should keep anybody from ambushing him. Creed playing smart does not take away from his success against Logan. It seems to me Logan is saying "You beat me and left me for dead time and time again".
Hardly proof Capt. Logan saying something and seeming confident about his statement won't convince many.
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Last edited by Badabing on Feb 18th, 2007 at 03:14 AM
without getting into this entirely circular debate I'm going to say this:
wolverine fas beaten creed quite a few times,
but rarely in straight up fights, and rarely on panal.. it's ammusing that you want to argue in favor or wolverine being hurt or injured before a fight but neglect when sabretooth is, it's interesting how you want to make up excuses for wolverine but similar excuses don't apply to sabretooth.. hmmmm
in their first fight, wolverine may not have had much skill... but honestly did sabretooth? maybe a bit, but their team x training hadn't even started yet. and forget skill.. at least logan had a damned healing factor..
which is ammusing yet again that you brought up shadow society as proof, which is yet another pre-marauder's instance.. another instance of sabretooth without a respectable healing factor.
and I need to re-read issue 10? no my friend.. i believe that would be you that needs to.. sabretooth NOT ONCE uses his claws in that fight.. not one..single.. time... the only time he even threatens to use them is after logan's already been beaten. And another thing, you can't even conclusively proof that sabretooth was even KOed in the at fight as the next time we see them, sabretooth while groggy is still concious.. wolverine on the other hand? not so much.
As for wolverine 145, yes you are actually right about most of those points, I didn't remember the issue clearly, but upon further review they did continue fighting after the standoff, still the "win" for wolverine remains incredibly ambiguous, wolverine doesn't look to be ducking creed's strike he looks like he's taking it, which if true means creed had logan dead to rights until he... unexplainably drove his claws into the ground... ? what the hell was that?
In any event creed lost to three factors in that fight that logan doesn't have guaranteed going for him in this one. creed was overconfident, creed nonsensically drove his claws into the ground, and creed was taking his admantium skeleton for granted.
In regards to the morlock tunnels, I'm pretty sure power pack attacked sabretooth, so I consider that helping. In regards to the fight, I'm not sure what you're talking about, sabretooth seemed to defnitely have the upper hand there, hell he even admits that in spite of being able to have killed him in his primary strike he wanted to have some fun first..
wolverine 90: it isn't alluded to that wolverine's holding anything back during the fight, except his claws, and since we're so concerned with previous pains i guess it makes no never mind that sabretooth put himself through that force feild barrier TWICE that night huh? or the fact that even though sabretooth did get labotomized it was LITERALLY while he was ASKING logan to do it...?
wolverine 126: the only upgrade he had was his skeleton. And he completely worked logan, like a child... pretty much proves that the adamantium gives logan a huge advantage in their previous fights.
wolverine 166: you act like wolverine was the only one who was previously fighting in that issue.. except for the fact that creed just finished handing maverick his ass to him, and had taken huge amounts of punishment through that fight...
wolverine saying "i don't know if I can take him, and the kicker is, he knows it too"..
wolverine being lifted helplessly into the air, and having his back kracked along creed's leg...
trippled with the fact that wolverine got his ass SAVED by shiver man, kinda alludes to the fact that he was losing that fight.. badly.
classic x-men 10, wovlerine was ready for a fight, wolverine was prepped for a fight and sabretooth was toying with him the whole night before that anyway.... when it came down to it wolveirne didn't have the cunning that sabes did and got nailed.. wasn't a striaght up fight sure, but it does prove sabretooth's superiority in different ways to be sure.
In "that same time period" you refer too. all we ever see is wolveirne take off sabretooth's ear.. that's it.. everything else happens off panal, on both occasions...
If off panal wins count then....
and again issue 50: wolverine's clearly losing the fight, sabretooth again has his ass dead to rights the only reason wolverine's on his feet as you put it is because creed literally lets him go...
all that said,
sabretooth:
classic vs. wolverine: wolverine.
murauders vs. wolverine: toss up.
x-force vs. wolverine: slight edge to sabretooth.
Adamntium vs. wolverine: large edge to sabes.
weapon x vs. wolverine: sabes by a landslide.
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
First no ones ever said he had better senses then spiderman and DD combind.
Second this was back before several upgrades to Logan’s character. So it not a very accurate gage and Logan did not see the attack coming it even stated.
Again back before any up grades to logans healing factor. You have to read wolverine in those days and you will understand what rice means. Logan healing factor has had massive upgrades to it which he did not have back then.
He talking like pre world war 1. Which means logan did not have any training fro Ogun or a number of his masters. He had only the training he had given him self or perhaps a single master at best. It was well before Logan’s mastery of 100’s of styles.
Ya because wolverine gotten so many more up grades then every other big named character
You seem to miss the point that Logan back in the day did not have nearly as fast a healing factor. He has had two massive healing factor up grades since then among other smaller up grades to his heal factor.
Being a slight hypocrite are we?
Ya and logan saying Sabertooth left him for dead proof’s Sabertooth is superior?
No, I agreed with Jinzin and just highlighted that fact. The only hypocritical part is you picking out my post when Jinzin has done far more damage to you and Rice in this thread.
Logan is getting abused in this fight. He had one panel where he does anything and gets owned in the rest.
The other reason I posted in this thread was to point out and make fun of you for the post above.
first off I never even debated jinzin you just assume I am backing wolverine up. How am I being a hypocrit by picking out your post when your directly quoted me?
second I posted that remark about enw x-men to show that just becuase some one says some thing does not make it true and since every one seems to think jsut becuase creed says he won every time does nto make it true when wolverine has said similar things.
third off why would you post in a thread to make fun of me? That seems rather lame and a little childish and you missed the whole point of why I even posted the remark.
also you know your scanns above if I am not mistaken dident logan just regain his healing factor and was far from 100%? Not that it really matter since Logans done the same thing to sabertooth ecpt it took less time in
X-Men Issue 161: Logna defeats Creed in 5 pannels
I explained this already. I agreed with Jinzin and just highlighted that fact. You disagreed with me and by proxy Jinzin.
No, I got the point and it was moot. Characters say things all the time and it never brings light to the outcome of a battle. Now I'm lame and childish. I joke with everybody and it's usually returned in kind as a friendly jest without the name calling. I guess I had you wrong, you're really quite emotional. No worries, I won't make fun of you again. This is a serious place where friendly ribs and humor are not welcome.
I actaully never disagreed with you as of yet I have not stated my opinion
I was kidding lol I just wanted to see if I could turn the tables on you. you know better then to take me serous even when i sound it lol. I am never overly serous or get offened.............unless you kill my sisters cat then were at war......................whisper " because I want the pleasure of doing it my self, I hate the dam thing"...................."runs a way and takes badings pen"
Dam you I will have my revenge............................" goes and kills ultimate thing"..................hahaha you have nothing left now you must suffer, because as every one already knows 616 thing sucks
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"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Feb 13th, 2007 05:07 AM
Seems it's more of Creed's skills than fooling Logan's senses. 
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I joke with everybody and it's usually returned in kind as a friendly jest without the name calling. I guess I had you wrong, you're really quite emotional. 
