As I have stated before, and has been backed up by Marvel's Writers, Mark Gruenwald is the "Grand Daddy" of the "Comic Book Omniverse".
Going back DECADES, Mark was first working on this subject all by himself. He has such an eye for Comic Book Continuity he caught the eyes of the Big Boys at DC and Marvel. The model he used for outlining the Structure of an Overall Omniverse, became the root for continuity at both Comic Book houses.
I have created a simple map that shows how the Omniverse is laid out.
I will go into more detail.
I will also list the various Alternate Earths, Other Universes, Dimensions and Timelines. There is a list of these Realms that will show the Numbers and Names they have been given. We will utilize this.
AFTER I found out I was being falsley reported to the Mods, I contacted them.
All I did, was ask them to look at the threads, and see what was REALLY happening, and I sent them a post showing that this all started when somebody misunderstood something I posted, that pointed at a lack of continuity was hurting the MU.
For some reason, somebody felt that this was directed at them. So, they began attacking me.
I simply pointed the Mods to this, and they made their own decisions.
And, as I stated, I only did this AFTER I found out I was being reported.
Everything I have done was in RESPONSE to attack.
Even now, I am being put down and insulted in another thread. But, that's ok.
We all have the responsibility of treating people with respect. That's a "given". Even if they disagree with us.
But, nobody should have to deal with being "Bullied"!
My school of thought says:
Be Nice,
Be Nice,
Be Nice,
Then, if thet doesn't work,
Tear Them Apart!
Let me address a few issues that have been confusing people.
First of all, there has been much debate about the "The End" storyline with Thanos, and some Blue Balls.
I stated that Thanos only effected 1 Universe, and although he represented a threat to the Multiverse, he was still only a 1 Universal Presense.
I still stand by that.
But, it would seem it does not matter anymore.
According to Tom Brevoot, Marvel Senior Editor, this story was not in continuity.
Yup, that's right. Non-Canonical.
I'm sorry it took so long to find this link, but I knew it was out there.
Case closed. Unless, we also dismiss statements from the Marvel Senior Editor now.
Here is the link to the interview, and below is the image from the interview.
I will be giving plenty of evidence to backup my statements.
Enjoy.
Do you know the issue of Warlock?
Don't worry, I have a lot more info. We both know what the deal is.
All a person has to do, is read the words, look at the pretty pictures, and presto! Get the facts.
We know the facts. We don't need opinions. We will figure it out.
I think it looks pretty cool.
I wonder if the "Oblivion Phenomenon" was like a Black Hole in the Multiverse, or a Section of the Border of the Multiverse, or maybe some kind of Hungry Dimension in the Center or what.
Thanks man.
Yeah, I even found a bunch of stuff floating on the web about it.
In a couple interviews with Starlin, it almost seems like he wants to keep us off balance about. He jokes about the continuity and stuff, and seems to really be enjoying the thought that he REALLY wanted to permanently destroy the Marvel Universe.
I found 2 instances of people asking him about the continuity of The End, and both times he managed to make a joke, and not give an answer either way.
He is big on the writers having total freedom, and not having to adhere to rules of continuity. And, in a way, I can understand what he means.
Very funny.
Also, he NEVER says anything about Thanos destroying the Multiverse. He always says "The Universe".
But, don't worry, even though I have my view of it, I am still digging, and will go wherever the most evidence says to go.
I don't care how it looks... I want to know if it's factualy accurate.
Oblivion, I think Is like a region of "Anti-Reality" Which unwinds Spacetime, Reality, basically everything. The Blue Bubbles constantly are being pulled into it, but the Anchors excert an opossit and equal force, so the Universe remains stationary, unless the anchor is destroyed.
Here is the problem:
Whether you guys like the "Cheap Paint SHop" map I did or not, it is accurate.
Feel free to redo it in something you like, I just didn't have the time. Sorry.
I will be posting some information I have found, backing up what I am saying.
The truth is, the ENTIRE REASON Mark Gruenwald was even brought into both DC and Marvel, was because of his Fanzine, Omniverse Project.
The model he created was put into effect by both companies, and he became THE GURU of comic continuity.
The model he put together was used ever since. It is what you saw in my terrible paint shop map. The problems start when we find out that certain terms have been used interchangeably, for artistic purposes, as descriptions, etc.
Yes, the term "Marvel Universe" has been used to describe the whole line of Marvel Storyline Worlds. Does that mean we follow along with that? No.
The terms "Multiverse" and "Omniverse" has also been used to describe unspecified areas of space and numbers of Universes.
Does that mean that the terms do not have a SPECIFIC definition also? No. These terms, as it has been laid out by Marvel Editors for quite a while, describe the structure of the different levels of space.
This is what we should follow. I mean, we are here to do that, right?
So, there is a Universe. 616.
The 616 Universe is among an infinite number of other universes, inside it's Multiverse. The Marvel-Based Multiverse.
This Marvel-Based Multiverse drifts with an infinite number of other Multiverses, inside an Omniverse.
Before we show the "Deeper" realms, we should agree with the way Real Space is laid out.
When I said "Cool", I meant I thought it was on the money.
Anyway, Your first image seems to be your interpretation of the Omniverse, using your words. Cool.
Second image seems to be that of a Multiverse, complete with Oblivion, Universes and Anchors. I hope I am right.
The problem the third image gives me a headache, is because it isn't actually connected, in the image, with the other images. But, I see what you are doing. You went deeper than "Real Space", and jumped into the Time, Pocket Dimension situation. No problem.
For now, as I stated, let's first agree on the "Outer" problem.
I know you guys hate my images, so feel free to change them, or do whatever makes your boat float. I don't care.
But, I tweaked the model of the Multiverses, due to the new information that may or may not be "canon". We will see. But, it can stay for now.
As I said, do what you want with the images.
We can start on the different timelines and pocket dimensions as soon as we agree on this.
Just so you know, I am using the 2005 OHOTMU: Alternate Universes, descriptions given on-panel and descriptions from the guys that have been in charge of continuity.
Model of the Omniverse, as per Marvel and DC continuity:
Now, before we move on to Alternate Timelines and Pocket Dimensions, can we agree that we have decided on the mapping of a Multiverse?
(in the case above, the Marvel Multiverse) Since we still need to delve into the architecture of the DC Multiverse and others.
But, this seems a good place to start.
KK, do whatever you want with the images, but, even though yours seem valid, I thought it might be better if we could show the Universes were contained inside of a Multiverse. Which, was contained inside an Omniverse.
Again, I am sorry if this pic sucks.
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
another interesting thing about gruenwald and his opinions -- he did a lot of the writing on quasar -- the COSMIC AVENGER. his opinion and words SHOULD carry some weight, though i agree with masters assertion that only on-panel material should be used in the debates.
but gruenwald's thoughts SHOULD be filed under -- not-exactly-UNimportant . . .
Not sure if this has been addressed but where does Roma fit in here? Her title is the Omniversal Guardian, but afaik she has no jurisdiction over the DCU.
1. When they are calling her the "Omniversal Guardian", does that
mean that she is the Guardian of THE Omniverse?
If this is the case, we would need to see that the storyline has stated
the existence of "The Omniverse" as in the large, containing space
that is filled with Multiverses. This is more of a Scientific Label of an
area of space.
2. Or, is the storyline using the term "Omniversal" to describe that her
Guardianship encompasses "ALL" Universes in the Marvel-Based
Multiverse, of which, 616 is the Core? This is more of a Description
of Authority over All Universes in the Multiverse.
In other words, does the Roma-based storyline ever admit to the existence of, or describe The Omniverse?
There aren't really many Roma-based stories per se. She basically assumed Merlin's mantle when he "died" and has henceforth been referred to as the Omniversal Guardian. I don't think she's appeared in any crossovers so I would assume the latter, i.e. that her task is to overlook the Marvelverse, so I suppose her title is a bit of a misnoma.
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Nov 29th, 2006 04:05 PM
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