Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
i KNEW this question was coming . . .
i've given it some thought, so bear with me. there is no reason that as a representation possessing some measure of the abstract's powers and conceptuality that someone couldn't 'enter' eternity and end up within the universe. but what if the m-body is manifest WITHIN the universe itself? what if someone entered him then? i asked you before how can the m-body represent the entirety of the universe and still manifest WITHIN the universe. you said it was strange, but that's how it is. what if it's not? what if some m-bodies are granted more power than others? that is of course speculation, but it seems to make sense to me. when the m-body travels, does the whole universe go with it? is the whole universe in EACH of the 3 m-bodies that existed simultaneously in that quasar issue? how is THAT possible? perhaps if an m-body is granted the full scope of eternity's power it WOULD end the universe if it was killed? i just happen to think that description fits the examples better than saying each m-body has all of eternity's might. what your saying also contradicts quasar's quest. if the m-body really IS 'all' of eternity, why was he searching for it despite finding a host of m-bodies?
there is also the fact that many m-bodies have been destroyed in the past of OTHER abstracts (death, lt, to name a couple) but they always come back. if ALL their power were IN those m-bodies, then when those m-bodies were destroyed, the abstracts should ALSO have been destroyed. is eternity the ONLY abstract who uses 'full-power' m-bodies? just dosen't stand to reason for me, my friend.
to address your second post for a moment because it serves in part to speak to what i'm getting at: the fact that even after eternity was seen "unleashing ALL the Fury and Power his ONE M-body could muster" in that issue #5 you referenced, speaks to a very limited amount of power possessed by that m-body. after all, the attack only destroyed a simple planet. were eternity truly bringing ALL his power to bear, he could have 'mustered' a WHOLE lot more than that . . .
i knew THIS question was waiting for me too. you're obviously correct in assuming that it was NOT mentioned in quasar #37. it WAS however SHOWN. here again, like eternity, we see at least 2 lt m-bodiesexisting simultaneously:
the almost equally famous meeting with the beyonder. like eternity, BOTH m-bodies cannot POSSIBLY possess the full power of the abstract. even in that scan where reed blows lt away, obviously lt was not 'really' destroyed, only the m-body was. if that's not enough, even your favourite website claims that lt has an m-body in every universe. (yah, i know -- you HATE bios. i just threw it in as a minor additional confirmation, but seeing multiple lt m-bodies existing at once is pretty conclusive, imho.)
lt, infinity and eternity DID resist him more than the others though. and some of the other entities i referred to (ie the vishanti) are said to be multiversal in scope of power. they would be more of a threat than the assembled friggin' heroes at least! (heroes?? what the hell were they even DOING there??)
Gender: Male Location: Planning to take over the WORLD!
done, i think.
aside from all that, i know you really like that quote where thanos worries a lot about the 'others' who might attack him, but how do you explain away all these references and the many others that were made throughout the series?
again, these are perhaps the 2 most 'cosmically knowledgeable' characters in marvel, written by the cosmic guru himself, and yet REPEATEDLY they use the term UNIVERSE. surely if ANYONE understood it was the multiverse, these characters, written by starlin, would be the ones, no?
i know i won't likely convince you, but . . . it was worth a shot.
The M Bodies are basically "containers" for a portion of the eccense of the Abstract Entity. It's power, what it represents, it's psyche, it's very being. Otherwise, it would not be able to represent itself accurately in the M Body. But, it can.
When Gamora jumped into the Eternity M Body (which was only about 40 or 50 ft tall), she was still, in eccense, leaping into the Universe, and obviously trusted that Eternity was going to get her where she needed to go.
First of all, Eternity DID NOT compact itself into a 40 ft form.
Nor did Eternity grow Gamora to infinite, Universal size.
And, if Gamora was just jumping into a big blob of 616 universe, when she jumped into Eternity, she would have had no idea where she would end up.
So, to take that scan literally, does not add up.
The M Bodies and the actual Abstracts are Linked. They ARE the entity.
That was never debated.
Please ignore anything else you all hear. The M Body situation is one that is SOLIDLY embeded in Marvel. There is no room for guessing, or wrong opinions.
Think of the M Bodies as a kind of a cross between a symbol of the abstract entity, and a portal to that entity's very being. It would seem that their power can flow out through the M Body, as well as act like a portal, allowing the TRUE entity to be effected as well.
But, make no mistake people. The Universe, the Living Tribunal, Death, Infinity, and all the other Abstract Entities are not 40 or 50 ft tall, nor are they compressing themselves into this view. These are Universal and Multiversal entities, not mailmen that show up in person on a regular basis.
He effected A UNIVERSE. Period.
Please, people. Do not get talked into ignoring the words of the writers and the words on panel. This is simple.
He brought about the end of A universe.
That is all. The writer said it. The comic says it.
There is no reason to look into it anymore. If somebody has an arguement that is totally based upon me having to ignore what I am seeing and reading, I say that is a very POOR arguement.
If it has only been stated in that one instance, where Kubik says it, I would have to lean toward "no". But, at the same time, I am open to it going either way.
If he exists in all multiverses, he suddenly becomes the most powerful character in the Omniverse, until another comes along.
Because that means he is "Judging" all Multiverses for the sake of the Omniverse.
If I see a combination of on-panel feats/statements, bio/handbook entries and writers comments, that is good enough for me.
If there is a bunch of evidence like that, pointing in a certain direction, and then there is one small piece of evidence, or a flawed opinion going in the other direction, I still lean toward the majority of clear,hard evidence.
Have to use common sense and logic.
Yes. He is in charge of an entire Multiverse.
This is supposed to be a being so far removed from anything we can understand, that we... well... that we could not understand it!
Anyway, the fact is, if you believe that his position DOES include the entire Multivers, you almost have to believe when he said that he has a presence in every Universe. This could imply an M Body, or just the ability to spread his consciousness across all universes.
To argue it, goes against what has been shown, said, and is a lot like the whole M body verses actual body debate we are having.
Last edited by Horrificus on Dec 1st, 2006 at 04:05 AM
But those other instances don't actually contradict that scan. He IS in charge of the multiverse(under TOAA of course). That's true. But very few beings would be concerned with whatever is going on in another multiverse anyway. So unless it's actually stated somewhere that his jurisdiction is actually limited to a single multiverse, then no conflicting evidence exist, and the scan is therefore valid. That scan of LT is unique, because it is a scan of a cosmic level entity who is relearning the structure of Marvel(because much of her former life as the Beyonder was illusionary ). That kind of thing doesn't really happen every day(and to my knowledge, it's the only time it's happened on panel, but I could be wrong about that).
If you read that Quasar issue carefully you'll notice those OTHER "M-bodys" are meaningless:
"Eternity is so TRANSFINITE that there are Numerous Manisfestations of him here"
(He could be and probably is talking about Eternities of OTHER Universes, because in the Multi-verse there are an Infinite number of Eternitys)
"Our Dimension contains Reflections of EVERY MANIFESTATION we have EVER DONE"
Which is why I posted more than a few scans of that very FACT taking place, I have more scans of Eternity getting rubbed out and the Universe getting the same treatment because of that, just let me know if you need to see those too.
I'm not using logic that sounds proper, On Panel Eternity dies/the Universe dies, Eternity is replaced by Thanos/ the Universe becomes Thanos (literally)
It doesn't contradict it at all, you just missed the parts I just posted above, no need to repeat it.
And when was LT destroyed besides the End?
If your talking about the Non-Canon scenerio with Reed, LT was NOT destroyed AT ALL:
"This Device will create a Chain Reaction within a Cosmic Being, and harness the beings own power to HURL him through an Endless series of Dimensional Realities"
And the Eternity scan with Beyonder is NOT from Quasar#37.
What's going on there, hmm.
No doubt, especially when it's NOT even the same Comic Book.
So tell me where your getting the Beyonder scan from, cause it sure ain't Quasar #37.
Actually I already proved that you didn't have the full story there,
neither LT nor any of the other Abstracts were "destroyed" ... they were mearely thrown into other dimensions, nothing more.
Please, bios... No no no....
Only you can't prove those are "M-bodys" in any shape or form, and until you show me On Panel LT being declared as an "M-body" ...were just going to have to except the On Panel evidence that LT does Exist SIMULTANEOUSLY EVERYWHERE, and it has Nothing to do with "M -bodys".
The Vishanti are no more a threat than the Heroes compared to a HOTI Thanos.
Outside of their Realm they're nobodies.
Last edited by Mr Master on Dec 1st, 2006 at 04:46 AM
Gender: Male Location: somewhere within time & space
Where On Panel has this ever been mentioned?
unfortunately Eternity was in a COMA! CATATONIC, so how Gamora "trusted Eternity to get her where she needed to go" is a mystery, since Eternity couldn't even move, talk or think, he was well ... CATATONIC!
"But Eternity has already fallen VICTIM to the Magus and stands before us in a CATATONIC STATE"
Remember : You speak of COMICS writers.
Universe, Multiverse and even Omniverse can be used as generic names.
Universe can be used for Multiverse and Omniverse. Omniverse for Multiverse. And i'm pretty sure the "Omniverse" from Captain Britain is just a Multiverse.
Don't be warsies.
Oh, and don't speculate too much on M-Body : It's not because an Abstract is not killed when is boby is destroyed that M-Body is involved : Read Fantastic.
Now, we know that Death exists in every universe in the Multiverse, so surely if all life were to be absent in only ONE universe, she would not be threatened at all...... Hell when Thanos had the IG Death WANTED him to destroy half the population of a universe to even things out a bit.....
So to fix this astral problem, ask yourself what Thanos would have had to absorb and recreate in order to save Death herself from "falling victim to the approaching termination"
A Multiverse perhaps?
Last edited by Galan007 on Dec 1st, 2006 at 03:57 PM
I also have to agree with the masters guy, when thanos absorbed eternity and infinity he considered the rest of the cosmos a threat to him, and since no one can dispute masters scans showing eternity being the universe like 6 times, there's no reason to believe the eternity and infinity thanos absorbed was anything but the 616 universe.
After he absorbed one universe which was eternity and infinity, he continued on to absorb the rest of the multiverse.
I read quasar 37 and I also didn't see anywhere were it says m-bodys are a fraction of the whole, I never saw any equation being stamped on the m-bodys, only that they are representations of the abstract concept, and masters scans have convinced me that eternity is the universe, literally.