I've listened to Schon, accept this fact. Accept that someone can know Schon, know his work and still not think he's better than Eddie Van Halen or Alex Lifeson.
"He is disagreeing, he must not know Schon.". No, I do know him, that's why I am saying what I am. Stop assuming I haven't.
It's also funny how everyone that comments is saying "He's good, but don't overrate him.", and "Eddie came along and shut him up.".
Or, perhaps you don't want to be faced with Schon's superior fretwork in the case of Lifeson.
If you've seen all those (which I doubt), I'm impressed.
"I am God. My opinion is fact. Schon is terrible and so is Paul McCartney. I can make assumptions like these without backing them up, due to the God-complex that I have." - AC.
It's also kind've funny to see the other people say that it was excellent, and that this version was the best that they've heard.
Damn. Selective reading much? Byproduct of the whole God complex?
Fantastic rebuttal I must say. I noticed you also ignored all my points because you are clearly talking through your ass. And I do not find what is so funny about Mother, Father being more complex vocally than any Rush song, because it is. If you actually take the time and watch that video you will see how Perry displays impeccable control over his voice. Geddy Lee has never touched anything that difficult.
And I'M the one with the God complex? Funny how you can decide what I mean isn't it?
No, it's not. Accept the fact that someone can know him and not rate him above Eddie Van Halen and also Lifeson.
It's genuinely hilarious how you're now making shit up that I didn't say, and I'm the one with the God complex. Attacking me, not my debate, funny. The act of desperate men.
That may be the case, it doesn't detract from the fact that Eddie Van Halen showed him up, and it's obviously a memorable era otherwise nobody would remember it.
When I'm telling you what you said, we can discuss God complexes.
I ignored your points because Gideon has said the same ones for the past page or so. Why should I repeat what I've said? You've got eyes.
You're one to speak of proof? You discount Sammy Hagar's testimony simply because you don't agree with it. That is both delusional and pathetic considering you've never worked with Neal Schon or Eddie Van Halen, and aren't a credible source or expert, whereas he is.
You also speak of hypocrisy, lol, which is kind've dumb, given the above.
Excellent cop out, I read your post and commented on it. I have not repeated anything that he said. And you’re telling me that I’m repeating what he said when in reality you know that you are unable to back up anything you say.
And proof would be that Geddy has never sung anything close to being in the range of Mother Father, He has never displayed the power or control to sing that song. I have heard more Rush than you have of Journey so calling me biased would be illogical. If you would like to point me to a song sung by Geddy that you think Perry would not be able to do I will gladly listen to it (and then laugh)…but no seriously ask anyone who sings on a regular basis and they will tell you Perry destroys Geddy. My friend has been singing for a few years now and later on I’ll have him come to this thread and prove to you with note evidence how much better Perry is.
The fact that it's a well known event; Eddie Van Halen arriving, inventing new techniques, patenting invented guitar parts and overshadowing Schon, is one piece of evidence. The fact that he's one of the best guitarists ever is another.
I understand you're feeling like Rambo right now, coming in and trying to counter me, but this isn't the first time something like this has happened. I ignored your points because yes, Gideon has said almost exactly the same things.
Proof? Let me just put this shoe on the other foot, brb.
That sounds like an assumption about the music I've heard, that's not very smart of you, Pazzo.
What a fool, tsk tsk.
Hmm? Oh, yes, I'll tell you a song so you can predictably go away, come back and say "Perry could sing that.".
Look, I've done this before with so many people and it's really tired.
Your friend? Yes, he's really going to be impartial isn't he? Haha, no. Or is this the part where you sign up as a new account and say "Perry destroys Lee!"?
So, word of advice:
Don't assume what music I've heard and don't make stupid claims like "I'll get my friend on here.".
Sounds to me like you just absolutely refuse to give credit to Hagar's remarks. Like I said, whether or not you agree is irrelevent; Hagar worked with Schon and Van Halen. He's seen them both play. If he says that Neal can "play" as good as Eddie, it isn't your place to disagree, and it isn't your place to say otherwise - because then, all you have is an unsupported and uneducated opinion.
Likewise, have we been through this before? Schon was a blues-inspired guitarist playing for an arena rock band fashioned around Perry's vocals. Eddie Van Halen was part of the new metal scene with a band derived from his namesake. The attention on them was much different. If you want to get a good account of Schon's skills as a guitarist, perhaps you ought to branch out and listen to more than Journey. Listen to his solo albums, Bad English, Hardline, or his jam sessions with other musicians.
Well once again you don’t actually counter any of my arguments. And no my friend Frank will be here rather shortly to explain to you why Perry is better, even though it should be most obvious to people who have ears. Geddy has a high timbre, that’s about all he has up his sleeve. I don’t know why this is so hard for you to fathom. Perry’s range is larger…this is including low and high notes. Perry’s control over his head voice is almost unmatched…Geddy Lee just sounds like a Squirell with a few rubber bands tied around his balls. So please tell me what makes Mr. Geddy a more technical vocalist than Steve Perry. From what I can gather he doesn’t touch Perry in any way shape or form. But please enlighten me with your extensive knowledge on vocals. And please give me a better answer than “Oh I already explained this on the other page” because you have explained absolutely nothing yet.
I like Sammy Hagar, but I don't rate his opinion above the likes of Slash, Steve Vai, Prince etc. Not when it applies to guitar playing.
He is entitled to his opinion of "Schon is as good.", if he means just creatively, then fine. Preference. Technically, Schon isn't better.
Oh give it a rest.
You dare to tell me that Van Halen got attention because he was in a band with his name on? Why didn't Alex get attention then? Gene Simmons signed Van Halen, or got them signed, because he heard Eruption by Eddie Van Halen. It wasn't his name, it was his ability that grabbed people's attention and overshadowed many, many others. Including Schon.
Oh, he has a name. Therefore he isn't you and is definitely going to be impartial. If you expect me to even give this pathetic technique the time of day...pfft.
All you just said was everything Gideon says. "Perry can go low and high, better range.". I've seen it all before Gide...I mean Pazzo. One or the other, please. I'll reply to you or I'll reply to him, but if you're both gonna daisy chain each other, I'll leave you to it.
Geddy Lee has sustained his sound, range and sustain through all these years. Perry has not.
Alright this is Frank, Pazzo's friend. Ok now after listening to both Steve Perry and Geddy Lee, Im somewhat confused as to how you believe Geddy Lee is a more technically skilled singer than Steve Perry. Let's start with a few examples. For one Steve Perry sings straight through is passagio's to hit every note dead on. If you don't know what a passagio is, its where the breaks in your voice are from low to middle chest, and middle to head voice. Geddy seems to avoid this by singing very pinched where any apparent passagio wouldnt be there. He basically hides his voice and sings with practically no support. Steve Perry however sings everything straight into his palette so that the tone and sound can ring and carry to get maximum power and overtones. Geddy doesnt hit every note with an intent, he basically hears something in his head and lets his voice do it rather than controlling his voice. I could make myself sound pinched and annoying also, and if you find that unique, well, you may be right, however i dont recall being unique a factor in whos better. If you like him fine, but no way in hell could you ever convince me that Geddy is better than Perry. If you need to hear something difficult sung by Perry then listen to Mother, Father. If you want to hear his versatility listen to Rubicon and then listen to one of his solos works, Summer of Luv. I have heard many live concerts sung by Steve Perry and have heard no one else top his performances. His endurance is rather amazing beign that he sang 2 hour sets every night of the summer and rarely had a bad night.
Feel free to have an administrator do an IP address check. I am not Gideon or Frank, stop being ignorant.
And you have yet to prove me wrong that Perry’s range is larger. It’s quite interesting how you resort to calling me and Gideon the same person for your arguments…when you should be trying to back up your Geddy argument with factual claims.
Perry sustained his sounds throughout the 70’s all the way to the late 80’s. His voice began to deepen, it did not get worse it just changed. While he sounds different now he is still able to hit the same notes he used to. So I fail to see your logic here…I mean I guess it doesn’t matter to you that Perry remained more technical than Geddy throughout his entire career. And you still haven’t watched or commented on that video I posted…Interesting.
See, now why would you say that? Pazzo has spent most of his time convincing me that he has a friend coming here to debate an issue on which he, and coincidentally Gideon, is having trouble with. Then abracadabra, you show up...the same day as "Pazzo", and voila!
Moreover, you and him posted at EXACTLY the same time, just like him and Gideon.
It's not just coincidence when this happens twice.
Shocker there.
Funny, because if I didn't know better, and I do, I'd say you just made a load of shit up to make it sound like you know what you're talking about.
"Perry sings everything into his palette to get the tone powerful and maximum overtones.". Dude, get real.
Says who? Find me a quote where Geddy says he does this and I will concede.
Way to prove you aren't actually aware of singing ability.
If you think Geddy Lee is just whiney and annoying, then you honestly don't know about singing. He's known for having credible vocal talent.
Does it look like I'll lose sleep? No. Like I said, I know Geddy is, so convincing you/Gideon/Pazzo isn't necessary. You apparantly feel the need to make me agree, maybe that's just insecurity.
It's like talking to a brick wall, three (one) of them.
So does that mean I'VE heard nobody top him? No. I have, Geddy Lee.
If you like Steve Perry, fine, but there's no way you'll convince me he's better than Perry (Oh...).
Yeah I know! A singer that performs! What will come up next?
There are ways around it. It's all too obvious that there is genuinely some bs going on, I defy anybody else to deny it.
It's not for my arguments, it's because I believe there is something truly sad going on. You join today and of all the threads and all the people, reply to me with the exact arguments of Gideon, then "Frank" does.
It's rather sad and too obvious.
Oh that old trick. "It didn't get worse, it just changed.".
Yeah, like Tom Araya's voice "changed".
You're doing the same thing you are saying I shouldn't do.
Which will complicate your rather stupid assertion (which you have many of) that we're the same person. He's from another set of forums that I frequent, which specializes in music discussion.
Steve Vai has worked with Neal Schon before - Neal's been spotted jamming with Vai at his concerts. Slash and Neal toured with Bad Company, acting as guest guitarists in their jam sessions, and Slash was prepared to sign up with Soul Sirkus (Neal's side band) 'til Velvet Revolver came around.
Seems to me that they seem to be impressed with Neal's ability to play. Which, again, makes you the odd man out.
You're not in charge of Hagar's opinion, AC. He can think whatever the hell he wants. He's performed with Neal and Eddie; you haven't. Oops. Guess that makes him more educated and more familiar with the topic than you are - and in more of a position to make the call on which of the two is better.
You're not, so just shut up and move on, kay?
This is what's cute. This is a mirror-image of my account of Santana and Clapton and their dealings with Schon. I would point out that Schon was recognized by Clapton and Santana (yeah, like Gene Simmons is a "masterful player" or an icon compared to these two) when he was fourteen.
Wanna know why? Because of his ability. It grabbed people's attention, and overshadowed many others, like Lifeson.
Do you enjoy being a hypocrite, or does the God complex prevent you from realizing what you are?
Every sentence seems to underline the fact that you are a.) obtuse and b.) inept. Perry can go lower. Do you object? Prove otherwise. Perry can go as high. Do you object? Prove otherwise.
I'm pretty sure that's why he showed up when you were on the back foot and also why you, he and FrankMLM post at almost the exact same time. In two cases, EXACTLY the same time.
I'm not making this up.
I'm aware, what's your point?
Why does it? Am I sitting here saying Neal Schon can't play? Or am I saying he's not better than Eddie Van Halen or Alex Lifeson? It's the last one.
Did I not say that? Let's look:
"He is entitled to his opinion of 'Schon is as good.', if he means just creatively, then fine. Preference. Technically, Schon isn't better.".
He can think what he wants, literally, but it doesn't change the fact that technically Eddie Van Halen is the better guitarist with regards to skill and ability. As far as MAKING music, totally subjective.
You can't prefer who is better. Someone is either better or they are not.
You are not getting my point, read what I'm saying. His opinion on them may be more valid from his experience with them compared to me, but not more than actual guitarists like Slash, Prince, Vai, Satch. All of whom consider Van Halen one of the absolute best ever.
Sammy Hagar does not have a more credible guitar opinion than those men.
First try understanding my points.
What an idiot. I'm not praising the fact that Gene Simmons found him, f*ck Gene Simmons. I'm showing you that Eddie Van Halen was discovered and got fame as a result of his innovative and otherworldly guitar talents, talents that outshone almost everyone including Schon, ironically. You claimed it was his band, his name. It wasn't, because then it would apply to Alex Van Halen too.
Hahahahaha. WHY do you keep mentioning that?
I am not debating who is a better child guitarist, why are you?
*Yawn*.
I'll do that, when you prove he can go higher, when you prove he can go lower. Show me songs that I already know, it won't matter because I already know them.
You see, all you can do is what you accuse me of. You can't prove it any more than I, because we'll never know the utter limits of both men.
Nor do you, on this account. The Schon debate has all but fizzled out for you and you are clutching to "HE WAS 14!".
You are, without a shadow of a doubt, the most obtuse and most stubborn person I've argued against on these forums.
The fact that your opinion is not a constituted fact has not sunk in at all.
Sammy Hagar said "Neal can play as good as Eddie can. Hell, Neal can play as good as anyone, really" in an interview that has been posted on Melodicrock.com. Understand that I am not talking about achievements or innovations; simply put, Hagar said that Neal can play a guitar as good as Eddie Van Halen can. For the final time, he has worked with both of these men, and has been in a band with both of them, too. He is in a position to judge which of the two is better. He says they can play equally. No one is denying that Van Halen has had more of an impact on music. But, it is a fact that Schon can play a guitar as good as Van Halen is. Especially when Steve Vai and Slash were impressed with Neal's ability to play. These two were men you cited as "credible sources".
You haven't worked with Neal or Eddie. You are not a credible source. What you say holds no bearing on the subject of "Eddie is much better than Schon" because the guy who worked with them both seems to disagree. Period.
As for Perry, I have provided several instances of him singing as high and even going lower. It is now your turn to provide me with songs from Rush that show off Geddy Lee's lower register. I'm doubting that that is going to happen, given your preferred method of denying accounts from others and making excuses.
If you can't provide, then it is simply that Perry's documented work shows a higher range and more control then Geddy Lee's documented work, which is what this is about. Which means that I win, and you lose.
You're obviously ignorant to fact, but I'll use that quote later...
The fact that Sammy Hagar's opinion is not fact has not sunk in yet.
Right, and there are guitarists better than Hagar that say Van Halen does. Who has the more credible opinion on technical guitar skill and judging it accordingly? Sammy Hagar or Joe Satriani?
How is he? Because he's been associated with them? That means NOTHING AT ALL.
He's in a position to say who he likes more, not who is FACTUALLY better. Listen to my point: If there are better technical guitar players than Sammy Hagar out there, calling Eddie Van Halen the best guitarist ever, while Sammy Hagar is saying Schon is as good, who has the more credible opinion? The amazing guitarists or Sammy Hagar who can play guitar a bit?
Him being with them does not give him the power to decide who is and who is not technically better than someone else.
It's not, it's the opposite.
SO WHAT? What are you not getting? Saying "Schon is impressive." doesn't mean he is better than Van Halen. He's not, and you KNOW he isn't. How do I know this? Because you know for a fact that you can't say Schon is better, and you're way too stubborn to admit he's not as good, so you're saying he's AS good.
I'm not saying I am a credible source. I am saying there are more credible sources than Sammy Hagar, with regards to technical guitar ability, and they believe Eddie Van Halen is the best.
You didn't need to prove that Perry could sing lower, I knew he could. You have just got to prove that he's a factually technically better singer than Geddy Lee. I'm not trying to convince you, I already know, you're the one trying to convince me.
If I was here trying to make you agree, the burden of proof would be on me, but I'm not. I could care less what you think, you're wrong.
It doesn't mean anything, because at the end of the day, you think things like "Santana is better than Rush.".
Have an administrator do an IP address check, I already told you. I can provide you with our AIM screen names if you would like.
Haha wow you are a ****ing moron. Frank didn’t make a thing up. Just because you don’t understand something does not mean that it’s false. And there is nothing wrong with his comment on how Perry sings…I guess Geddy Lee fans wouldn’t understand how someone with vocal training would actually use there voice.
You can tell by the way he is singing you moron, why do you think his voice lacks so much support?
The funny thing id he actually proved he knows things about singing ability in his posts. Feel free to visit digitaldreamdoor.com . It’s a music forum, and there is a vocal section. Bring up Geddy Lee being better than Perry and see how many people will laugh at you. We already started a thread on the topic and even the fansof Geddy Lee admit Perry is a much better singer.
Well for one thing you didn’t comment about the video. If you actually watched it you would have realized that Geddy would not have been able to pull that off. So smartass, tell me about the video?
KMC Community Forums
Dec 14th, 2006 11:35 PM
