Naruto wasn't stopping the fox either any other time he used the demons power. Heck some of the times he even asked for it. How many other times did Naruto stop and talk to Kyuubi when he was training? None it just happened instantly while he was sitting there talking to him when Sasuke interfered. We shall see what Sasuke can actually do when Naruto is actually attacking him instead of arguing with his other half. Until Sasuke actually does it when it's out like Yamato keeps doing then I'll say I was wrong. Him doing what he did doesn't prove much of anything at all.
Also the Kyuubi chakra has come out plenty times. To give power to Naruto it has to go through the seal that supposedly keeps it all contained. And being called more cursed doesn't equal stronger nor does Uchiha Madara being able to summon Kyuubi really mean anything since Sasuke isn't Madara, and just because you can summon something doesn't mean you can control it just ask Jiraiya and Orochimaru. Manda and Gamabunta are more powerful than them yet they are summoned by them and are unable to be controlled.
Yes, the lungs where it wouldn't be fatal at all. And Tsunade said herself she was unable to do anything at all. It attacked his heart. Kyuubi gives him power trying to take control because he wants out. Sasuke wouldn't have been able to kill Naruto..there is nothing even remotely hinting that Sasuke could kill Naruto since two other things have failed to do so.
No Orochimaru says that he has a long way to go to catch up to Sasuke when he's three tailed not four tailed. And Orochimaru wasn't close to bedridden at that time. Also the ultimate defense he used didn't stop the attack it saved Orochimaru but it destroyed the barriers. Also he says himself that the ball of chakra Naruto swallows before firing at him would be enough to kill him even with his body like it is. Also Sasuke used up a lot of chakra. He's dodged almost every blast even if it was just barely he dodged them. The one that got him destroyed his wing and the rest that could have destroyed him easily he disarmed with his lightning element. And neither him nor Manda took the whole blast even combining what they took. Sasuke used a spacial warp jutsu to get out of there while inside Manda before it was over.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
ur in such denial sasuke is stronger than naruto at the moment get over it think about kakashi said himself naruto wouuld not have beat deidara on his own but sasuke did naruto did not kill any of the akatsuki on his he got some type of help frm someone each time.
__________________ Even if we are fallen is it wrong to fight for what you believe in?
We are True Avengers
Except Kakashi has never seen 4-tailed Naruto, and Jiraiya is stronger than Deidara and he was nearly killed by Naruto. And Sasuke only won because Deidara blew himself up not because he was more powerful. Heck if it wasn't for the jutsu he used he would have been killed also but he got out before it killed him. Sasuke barley was able to stalemate Deidara...who he had the advantage over while Naruto has beaten two of the three legendary ninja.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
every other point was dealt with and many werent answered kento{yes u are in denial}.
only two things, sasuke HIMSELF said that he took the brunt of the initial blast before he went into manda's mouth{he was clearly more busted up than before after suigetsu summoned him.} and manda took the rest. you are also forgetting that the blast had already happened AND finished off by which time hebi saw it and THEN suigetsu said that sasuke was in tha area, AFTER which he got out his scrool and his bottle and created the seal and THEN summoned sasuke. so you see, it was quite a while after the blast had happened.
the second thing, you are implying that uchia madar was not strong enough to contorl the kyuubi when jiraya specifically said that no1 but him was strong enough to summon it. the fact that the kyuubi said that sasuke was like madara AFTER he sealed the kyuubi back and after the kyuubi saids his chakra was more cursed than his own, clearly refer to the kyuubi being weaker and subordinate to madara. furthermore, we can see that ALL the bijuu combined wud be able to create a jutsu by which pain can destroy a country of the face of the earth in less than a second and repeat the performance. however, we has alreasy sean that tobi, who wants to gain madara's power has even greater hidden plans than that very powerful ultimate jutsu of pain's. and from that we can see that whatever madara's power was, it was greater than pein's ultimate contry busting jutsu, meaning that madara had more power than all the bijuu{atleast kyuubi alone} combined.
also, the very REASON diedara had to use his suicide jutsu was because he had lost to sasuke and cudnt do anything else to him but use his suicide jutsu. sasuke clearly had the upper hand in the entire fight.
I already said Sasuke too the start of the blast. He didn't take the whole blast and it is even said he used a jutsu to get away. Suigetsu summoned Manda to get Sasuke back from where he had went. Even if it wasn't until after the blast was gone and they didn't move Manda still took most of it while Sasuke only took a tiny portion and it nearly killed him.
Being strong enough to summon doesn't = control. How hard is that to understand? And being more cursed also doesn't = being stronger. Is this really hard to understand. Orochimaru and Jiraiya can summon Gamabunta and Manda yet they aren't able to control them. Never is it implied that Kyuubi was weaker than Madara or that he listened unless it was something he wanted to do like Gamabunta and Manda. Who cares what Tobi wants? He doesn't care about the demons at all so what does Pein have to with anything and how does that mean Madara > Kyuubi. And Tobi already has Madara's power. He's not looking for anything...he's sitting on Madara's head doing nothing at the moment.
And Sasuke wasn't exactly doing anything to Deidara either so what is you're point? Everything Sasuke did Deidara was able to counter and vice versa.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Ransengegan is quoted for being a more powerful technique, the presumption is that just because Naruto knows a better jutsu, that makes him a better shinobi.
This is not the case, but it raises arguments because few people can accept thier favorite character can and will get thier ass-kicked.
Supposedly chidori is an increddible move, yet I've seen it to little besides tear up some walls and look cool. It looks to me the chidori is nothing more then an elaborate hoax. You make your chakra visible, and intimidate the foe with the screeching and wild eletric energy. They let their gaurd down, and bam! They be dead..
The Ransangegan doesn't have to be as flamboyant, it's simply pure concentration into a psi-ball that is going to mess you up.
Ransagegan is only known by Jiraiya that we know of yet, one of the legendary sanin and who the leaf village first picked to be the next hokage but he declined.
Kakashi invented the chidori, he might be a powerful jounin, but he's no sanin.
Ironicnaly now it's Sasuke who spins circles around Naruto in the time-skip. But then that was to be expected, Sasuke had a more burning passion to get stronger. Naruto gets distracted if Sakura's boobs bounce or a butterfly goes by.
Also while Sasuke was busy training with Orochimaru, another increddibly evil and powerful ninja. Naruto was going on stupid filler missions involving boxing kangeroos or whatever.
Who would argue Naruto is a better ninja? Naruto is not the better when it comes to any skills like aim, and fighting or even smarts or how many jutsu they each know.
Naruto was training with Jiraiya not doing filler mission. Those filler missions are just that. A bunch of pointless filler to make the series longer and to let the manga get a bit farther ahead since they had caught up to it almost.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
no, siugetsu used the jutsu way afterwards. sasuke used nothing but manda to protect himself.
go shoot yourself. NOW. it is implied EVERYWHERE, that madara is stronger than the kyuubi. tobi's plans are connected with the machine and the tailed beats apparently. otherwise theres no need for involvement in akatsuki. he doesnt HAVE madara's power, he will GAIN madara's power if akatuki's plan succeeds. and didnt i already explain all the instances of why this isnt the same as gamabunta or urochimaru.{and yes they are both stronger than the said summons themselves. this can be easily proven}
sasuke was doing quite a bit to diedara.
Suigetsu says Sasuke used a jutsu to get away from it after he went inside Manda. And still Sasuke didn't take most of the blast and Manda was all together so he protected Sasuke just fine. Either way Sasuke didn't take anywhere near the whole blast at all
It is implied no where that Madara is stronger than Kyuubi. Even if Tobi has other plans for the demons doesn't mean Madara is stronger. NOTHING suggests Madara was stronger. Unless the First Hokage was so much more powerful than Kyuubi and then the 4th Hokage must have been even more powerful than Kyuubi even though he had to kill himself to stop Kyuubi since the 4th is said to be the strongest person from the village by Sarutobi. And you did explain anything at all about how being able to summon Kyuubi makes Madara stronger than Kyuubi. And Manda is stronger than Orochimaru or Orochimaru wouldn't be scared to use him and have to do what he says. And Gamabunta is stronger than Jiraiya or Jiraiya wouldn't be scared of him coming out when Naruto summoned him. There is nothing to prove otherwise. There would be no point in summoning them if they were so much stronger than them.
Everything Sasuke did was countered by Deidara and the same thing with Deidara did Sasuke countered. They used up all their chakra in the fight for the most part. Sasuke had one solid punch on Deidara and Deidara blew off one of Sasuke's wings. There wasn't much other hits at all except clones or illusions.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
Madara stronger than the Kyubi? BWHAHA when the hell has that ever once been implied? Just because he can summon the kyubi does not make him more powerful.
if sasuke used a jutsu to get away from it then why does manda die? he shudnt even have suffered the later attack. and if indeed he did use the jutsu and manda already took the later blast, then what was the POINT of using the jutsu by sasuke since the blast had already been taken by manda? fail. sasuke took the brunt of the initial blast and manda took the rest{your negletcing points about sasuke being busted up}. than much later SUIGETSU used a space time jutsu to teleport them to their position.
as for madara. tell me, WHAT is the point of the kyuubi pointing to sasuke's chakra being more sinister than his own? i mean what was kishi trying to say by putting that fact in. also, WHY did the kyuubi call him similar to madara before SASUKE banished it back in his prison{try as you might, you can not get around that fact}. also, you a>b logic fails because you do not use it sensibly. gamabunta is hard to CONTROL, but that doesnt mean he is stronger than jiraya. consider that he was losing to shukaku even with naruto's help. now we KNOW that shukaku and other tailed beasts have been subdued/beaten and captured by akatsuki members far weaker than jiraya. it just goes to show that jiraya IS stronger than gamabunta. same with urochimaru, manda serves him because he is strong, doesnt mean urochimaru is ignorant to the fact that manda is strong, it just doesnt mean that he is stronger than urochimaru.
and if you remember, the frog with the seal laughed at jiraya when he said that the kyuubi might have been summoned by sum1. that was because he thought that "no1 was powerful enough to summon the kyuubi", pointing to the strength of the summoner required{u wrongly assume that any1 can summon a being and it isnt connected with power}. when jiraya specifically said, that uchia madara was the only one strong enought to. furthermore, we do not know anything about the fight with madara and the first. we cant comment on it but infact there is another thign that you are forgetting. the REASON the first was said to have become hokage was because he had the unique power to control bijuu, maybe that cud be the reason why madara lost, as the first had greater control over the bijuu than the summoner due to teh technicality.
you are also forgetting the fact that TOBI is superior to pein and not the other way around. pain using the power of ALL the bijuu{including kyuubi} is trying to create a super jutsu. however, tobi has other uses for the bijuu and sasuke, which is SUPERIOR to the power of the combined bijuu{kyuubi included}. thats is, to gain uchia madara's power. strongly pointing towards it being superior to the kyuubi.
lets see, sasuke dodged his attacks, and protected himself once from his wong. he hit him, he made him fall by cutting his clay bird's wng, he threw two jiant fuuma shurikens which impaled both diedara's arms, he made diedara suffer some brunt of his huge minefield going off although much was spared as diedara created another flying construct. in the end, he busted him up after his c-4 and punched him to make him fall to the ground. after which he had no real chakra left and in desperation used his suicide jutsu, killing himself and being unable to kill sasuke. dunno, seems to me like sasuke was on top of it.
u r really trying desperately now to misinterpret the most obvious naruto feats.
It doesn't really matter if Manda got out before or after the blast. Sasuke still only took a small part of it and was nearly killed by that little bit he did take while Manda survived the rest if he did take it al for at least a little bit.
Being more evil doesn't mean somebody is stronger now does it. And nothing about Sasuke being similar equates to being so much more powerful than anything else just that they have the same aura. Sasuke doesn't even have to be as strong to be similiar to Madara. Shukaku is one of the actually intelligent demons who can use it's chakra accordingly. The four-tails was said to be unable to use it's chakra because it wasn't smart enough and the third-tails was inside a host. Shukaku never lost to Akatsuki members because Gaara doesn't use it's power to get stronger unless he unleashes him which Gaara didn't do against Deidara. There is nothing supporting the fact that Gamabunta or Madara are weaker. If summons were weaker there would also be no point in using the great amount of chakra it takes to summon. Orochimaru didn't even want to use Manda and you think Orochimaru is one to obey something he is stronger than?
When did I say anybody can summon Kyuubi? I just said Madara doesn't have to be more powerful than Kyuubi to summon it. Who knows maybe summoning the demons was just his power and nothing to do with him being powerful like the first Hokage's ability to control them. And since the first Hokage can control them. And just maybe Sasuke is similar because he has inherited that ability that skipped the rest of Madara's clan.
Nothing Tobi has done suggest Pein is not superior. Let see who has the superior jutsu? Pein. Who is actually doing something? Pein. Who has done nothing at all? Tobi. And if Tobi is Madara why would he need Madara's power? And then in the other translation he says he had Madara's power so again why would he need Madara's power?
Oh so I missed the one attack Sasuke actually got on Deidara besides that punch. Still everything else was dodged or countered. They both got one good hit on each other before they exhausted their chakra. Deidara's was blowing off his wing, and Sasuke's was the one I missed. How was Sasuke on top. He had the oh so great Sharingan plus an element advantage yet he was only able to stalemate Deidara. How is that being on top when he had the advantage yet still couldn't win himself?
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
it does. it means you were using imaginary stuff as evidence. it means sasuke took the initial blast while manda took the entire remaining one. it also means that a lower tier character than urochimaru killed manda making uro>manda. also, you dont adress the initial point and continue making new ones so muxh that i actually forget the actual point i was making with manda being superior{and that happens with mostly all the disected points u make}
but sasuke isnt evil at all. so AGAIN, "What" POINT is kishimoto trying to make with sasuke banishing the kyuubi and the kyuubi saying at the same time that his power is more accursed and it is like madara? not to mention the fact that madara was the only one POWERFUL enough to summon the kyuubi{do remember that the kyuubi is a BIJUU, while gamabunta/manda etc are NOT. they are just normal summons}. the THREE tails was not able to use its chakra, NOT because it was stupid but because it lacked a HOST/jichuuriku to harness that power, unlike the 4 tails/gaar/naruto. gaara is ALWAYS using its power. that is why the sand is shaped like the hands of shukaku and that is why it protects him reguardless of his own will.
there is EVEYRYTHING to support the fact that gamabunta and manda are weaker. or havent u been listening, gamabunta was losing against shukaku even with naruto, while people much weaker than jiraya have easily taken care of bijuu in the past. same with manda{the POINT i was trying to make}, manda was kileld by PART of the attack of diedara, who is WEAKER than urochimaru. urochi and jiraya just are not STUPID to underestimate their summons thats all.
hypthesis. you are disreguarding blatantly implied material. for instance, why is tobi interested in madara's power as opposed to the stuff his "subordinate" pein, is into? why doesnt he just go after the kyuubi f madara was weaker?
yea, n nuthing pein had done until 5 chapters ago suggested that he was stronger than shikamaru! doesnt matter, he was the head of akatsuki, its CELARLY seen that he is suprior to shikamaru even before he showed his power.
right right. that is why diedara is always talking big and explaining his attacks only to be quietly trumped by the euperior sasuke? also, mostly all of sasuke few attacks did critical damaga while diedara's many attacks did reletively few critical hits {if any} . he did win himself, that is why diedara HAD to use his suicide jutsu to TRY and kill himself and take sasuke with him, yet even that failed.
I ain't using imaginary stuff. Sasuke was even said to go into fly into a different space that is why his chakra disappeared. He didn't stay there and take the whole blast inside Manda. Suigetsu sees the blast, looks inside his pouch, pulls out a scroll that suddenly gets a snake on it. Sasuke got a way from the blast before it was finished. Also Manda was killed by Deidara's strongest attack I'm sure anybody else would have died also since they can be hurt and killed by shuriken and swords a large explosion isn't going to suddenly not hurt them. Well who knows about Orochimaru since his body is weird but I doubt Jiriaya would survive something like that without a shield. That doesn't make Manda weaker than Orochimaru at all.
Having a chakra that feels evil doesn't mean the person is evil. Maybe, just maybe, he's trying to say that Madara isn't really evil either. And being powerful enough to summon Kyuubi doesn't mean he can control or is stronger than it. It doesn't matter if Kyuubi is a demon or not being able to summon something doesn't mean you're stronger than it. I thought the Three-tails was the cat girl that Hidan and Kakuzu beat but I guess that's two-tailed. And Gaara never used the Shukaku power except in his sand defense, which really doesn't increase his power at all. Gamabunta wasn't loosing until Gaara went to sleep and Shukaku was able to awaken and use it's power himself. Kyuubi didn't have a host but he was smart and could use it's chakra itself also pretty effectively. Sure it didn't have a medium but if it was smart like Shukaku or Kyuubi then it should have used it's chakra pretty well.
And Deidara beating Gaara by cheating without Gaara even using Shukaku is suppose to be impressive and mean that Gamabunta is weaker than Jiriaiya? How does that work? And if Orochimaru was stronger than Gamabunta then why would he summon Manda who he didn't wish to summon because he can't control it? There has been nothing to support the summons being weaker. It still wouldn't make since to use up to chakra it takes to summon Gamabunta or Manda if they were weaker than the one summoning them.
When has Tobi ever said he's going after Madara's power? He's already caught his demon, and they only need three more which others are going after. And when is Tobi ever said to be Pein's leader? And why are you so positive Tobi is so much more powerful than Pein? If any part of the legend is true Pein is easily superior to Tobi because of his Rinnengan. Nothing has ever suggested Tobi is superior to Pein at all while obviously Pein was alway suggested to be superior to Shikamaru since he leads the gang that have people like Itachi and Kisame then he is said to defeated the guy who not even Jiraiya, Tsunade, or Orochimaru could beat.
Deidara always talks big no matter what. It's his character. Sasuke's one hit didn't do any major damage at all. Deidara escaped from being blown up and all Sasuke did was impale him with two shuriken than didn't hamper Deidara's ability to create things to blow up. And Sasuke's punch didn't do much either. Deidara's one attack that hit also did very little damage as it just blew off Sasuke's wing that did little to actually stop Sasuke at all or seem like it hurt. Sasuke wouldn't have won if Deidara didn't decide to kill himself to try and kill Sasuke. Sure it makes Sasuke the winner but not because he actually won with his own power but because Deidara did something suicidal.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
if sasuke wouldnt have won how would deidara have beat him when his last desperate attack (before he killed himself)was two snake which sasuke easily thwarted. im pretty sure sasuke would have killed him because he said he still had another option to use
__________________ Even if we are fallen is it wrong to fight for what you believe in?
We are True Avengers
And just because he had another option doesn't mean it would have worked either. It could easily have been a stalemate like it was doing anyway if Deidara hadn't killed himself.
__________________ If you try something stupid, and it works it ain't stupid.
what could deidara have done to kill sasuke then instead of the suicide jutsu he had no more clay or chakra, and sasuke still had his other optionand the sharingan
__________________ Even if we are fallen is it wrong to fight for what you believe in?
We are True Avengers
do you realize how stupid you sound if deidara cant kill sasuke and sasuke had another option left what makes you think he couldnt have killed deidara by himself when deidara was already defeated
__________________ Even if we are fallen is it wrong to fight for what you believe in?
We are True Avengers
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Nov 11th, 2007 09:55 AM
