To keep it easy for judges, this will be a short-ish post. Mostly it's just my overview of our points so far.
1. We have a hideously good speed advantage due to our boards, which won't be getting absorbed due to the frenetic nature of the battle, and the fact that they're outnumbered due to Juggs' mobility disadvantage. Atom's the only one on their team that has ever approached the combat speeds that each one of our guys is capable of.
2. Surfer and Thor are beasts. Add in the power cosmic upgrade Thor has, and these two are clearly the most powerful in the battle.
3. Warlock is also easily the most skilled and intelligent in the fight. He was practically built to design battle plans on a cosmic level....and anyone who has read IG (or pretty much anything else with him in it) knows exactly what I'm talking about. We have team knowledge of everything about our team....skills, experiences, powers, etc. And a telepathic link to coordinate the battle. He's also as powerful as anyone on their team, and elusive to the point where he'll barely be touched. He can teleport out of their forcefield tricks and away from their clumsy blasts, and can use various means of taking down his foes (straight-up H2H fighting, energy useage, telepathy, using his board as a weapon). He has shown himself capable of dodging precision energy blasts, as well as using stealth and deception to gain the upper hand.
4. Juggernaut is severely handicapped from lack of mobility. And if he tries to jump to hit us, the nigh-nonexistent gravity of the Moon (plus Thor's anti-gravity particles) will send him into space, equally helpless. Warlock's the only telepath in the fight, and we'll just finish Juggs off once we've beaten down on the other two.
5. They've used dubious means of "proving" their strategy with BRB, and have attempted to show scans of a Void-enhanced Atom and others which are clearly not acceptable for the tourney. All the legit scans they've shown haven't been nearly impressive enough to convince me that they'd even harm us much, let alone win.
6. Speed, overall power, battle coordination, telepathy, additional weapons (the boards), and experience. We have pretty much every conceivable advantage. Atom's a strong pick on their part, but he's getting double-teamed and would likely fall to either Surfer or Warlock alone....but both will be fighting him. Thor has a board and power cosmic upgrades, so BRB s screwed.
...I've used concrete scans to back up everything I've said here, and Scoobless has done the same. They are interspersed throughout my earlier posts.
Basically, The God Squad rolls.
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On a side note, I'd like to say that this has been an entertaining first round, and I'd like to extend my thanks to both Souja and MM for the match, as well as to batdude and the judges for facilitating our fight.
Mrrungo-Mu is far more powerful than the Surfer and he got that way by absorbing energy from everything he could find in the universe, including most of Earth's heroes, yet he can't drain Surfer.
Even if Atom could drain him, which he can't, then there is far too much energy there to be contained and we've seen that Captain Atom can be overloaded, even by people like Major Force and Maxima (and many others), which causes him to time jump and BFR himself.
So there really would be no way he could handle Surfer ...... not that it really matters as he can't absorb him in the first place.
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As for BRB "teaching" others how to use Mjolnir ... well he showed them one trick then later didn't have a clue what to do, so he called for Thor for help....
It's Friday evening, so I'll remind participants to get their last arguments in, and for judges to start reading through the match (if they haven't already) and placing votes in the next day or so.
Thanks for a good battle guys, regardless of which one of us wins.
I'll just say i have had alotta fun in this tourney match it's been great.
1.Scoob has showed a scan that shows silver surfer seeing an invisible super Skrull,So what? Invisible woman doesn't manipulate light as far as i Know and the way that Surfer actually found skrull is using infra-red light so i doubt that would work.Even if that did your other two have yet to show this and They only have a small percenntage of Surfers power so you cannot use his feats for them.
You have aslo addressed that Juggy has to jump just to reach Your team(which is not the case,he is inside a hole with Thor) even if this were the case Juggy has shown that he can walk foward on nothing if need be he cannot be stopped.
Scoob has brought upthat Atom was amped up by the Void in that issue,based on what? a costume change?Oh i'm sorry i forgot the rule that changed appeareance=Power upgrade.boy anyone else remember when Pter shaved his Family jewels and Knocked hulk into Orbit
You Flashed Scans of supes and Atom and why he lost but what about when Supes smashed Thor?He caught the hammer midswing and KTTFO the poor bastard it's called an S sheild and it's the biggest plot device in comics(yes even greater then TEH CLAWZ)
You also mention over and over again how we can't use Thor feats for Bill well i Haven't.I even posted Evidence to show Bill has Ported and is capable of Energy projection,Absorbtion and that he is able to hit stuff.As for that time when i said Bill would make the forcefield i apologise that was a slip of the hand(tongue?)I meant Atom
Alrighty that's about it i have a cracker of a headache and our computer monitor is F**ked up so that is brighter than the sun....good luck Digi/scoobs it's been fun.
This will be short as well though. I'm just responding to MM.
Actually, that's exactly what IW does (bend light). And SP has all of Surfer's power and experiences because of Warlock, and we're telepathically linked to share information because of Warlock. Identifying anyone who's invisible won't be a problem.
Inside a hole, eh? Still sticking with that old chesnut? Our whole team can see you guys while invisible, can teleport, and has a speed advantage over you guys. The whole "hole" plan has been defunct for a while now.
And yes, low gravity + Thor's anti-gravity particles + Juggs' inherent slow-assed-ness = Juggs won't be a factor in this match at all.
At this point, your word isn't any more credible, and it's basically our word against yours. Amped or not, though, Atom's getting double-teamed by 2 people who can solo him. So the Wildstorm scans aren't important. The fact of the match is that you're over-powered regardless.
While I'd love to go into why Thor/Supes was utterly moronic, it wouldn't matter. Supes isn't in this fight. The point is that Atom can get owned by someone in that power class. And Thor + board + power cosmic upgrade >>> Superman. And Surfer is definitely >> Superman.
But you did for a while, and when you take those out, the # of feats you've actually shown Bill doing are staggeringly low. And it's still nothing more than what Thor's capable of, especially with upgrades.
1. Our Opponents want you to believe they have this massive speed advantage, and again I point out this is false. The rules of the tourney specifically state that characters may only operate at speeds up to and under that of light. Considering two of their characters prior to the battle can operate at light speeds, the creation of the boards are utterly useless. Due to two of our characters(Atom, and Bill) being able to move at speeds near, at, or above light, we should be able to easily cope with their speed.
2. Our opponents initially planned to have their imitation Surfer give a portion of his power cosmic to Thor. However our team can counter this by reversing the energy polarities, we could reverse the cosmic energy that gave Thor his upgrade. This would only make Thor weaker and easy picking. I have posted this argument before, but instead of a counter argument I received a "BS" claim.
3. Juggernaut won't be removed from the battle field by any maneuvers our opponents plan to deploy. There most recent plan was to have Thor use his anti gravity attack on Cain rendering him helpless. However this won't work due to the mystical shield Cain possesses. For those who read X Men #12 Juggernauts first appearance, Juggernaut during this time was attempted to be removed from battle field via TK. Juggernaut than deployed his mystical shield and he simply stopped and walked on nothingness. The same technique can be easily accessed if needed in this battle.
4. Juggernaut is mobile enough to get a hold of Warlock, or Thor. All thats required is either have Warlock come to him(something our opponents stated they would do in their write up), have Juggernaut launched by one of our teammates, have Juggernaut put his leaping abilities to use, or have juggernaut teleported inside a shield with one of our opponents.
5. Our opponents would like for you to believe that the power cosmic can't be drained, however this is false. Recently In Annihilation a number of Galactus former heralds have been drained of that very power. Fallen One for example was just strait out sucked dry of his power by Tenebrous. Terax, Morg, and Air Walker have also been drained of their power. Thor is no reason why the same can't be done to this imitation Surfer.
6. My opponents have tried to come up with ways that Juggernaut can be dealt with, but all have been countered. They have no strategy concerning removing his helmet, thus the only logical way to go about it is by coming within Cain's reach. Once in his reach it's over. Cain has shown on a number of occasions that he is physically one of the most formidable characters in the Marvel Universe. Once he gets his hands on any one of their characters, it's lights out.
My opponents have tried saying that Warlock can teleport behind Cain, however the out come of this would be.
1. Fried, and then mauled by Cain. remember, Juggernauts armor is charged with billions upon billions of volts of electricity.
2. Is surprised he cannot touch Cain, and is grappled and mauled by Cain. Or he is left open from attack from Atom or Bill.
3. Removes the Helmet, and finds that beneath lies a ski mast made of the same properties, and is then mauled by Cain or again is left open for attack.
Either way, the outcome is the same. Warlock mauled, and more than likely left dead. If Warlock approaches Cain, like stated in your first post, he will be quickly dispatched.
7. Bill is skilled with Stormbreaker, period. Our opponents have tried discrediting this fact but they can't. I have provided scans of how Beat ray Bill wields stormbreaker with intelligence and skill.
8. I 've been wondering about a flaw in my opponents plan, however I haven't stated anything yet because I didn't want to limit their imagination. They plan on having Space Phantom become Norrin Radd, and that fine. However with this transformation how would one go about attaining Surfers power? As you know. The power cosmic isn't Surfers power, it's ultimately only an extension of Galactus power. In order for them to attain the power cosmic, they would essentially have to steal it from Galactus. The power cosmic is Galactus soul power and it can't be duplicated by beings such as Space Phantom, which is basically what our opponents are trying to do. In order for our opponents to attain the power cosmic it would have to be willingly given by Galactus however it's not. When they have Space Phantom transform into an imitation Surfer, he'll only be strong, durable, and shiny. This plan would be as useless as transforming into Rune King Thor, because although they would have his physical body they wouldn't attain the Odin Power.
For example, say someone tried duplicating Mjolnir. They would be successful in attaining the physical body, however they would retain none of it's magical properties or power due to it being enchanted by the Odin Power. In order to retain the power, the odin power would have to be duplicated which is impossible. This is the same situation our opponents will face, trying to turn into Surfer.
Their go's their plan out the door. This throws out the boards, Thor's upgrade, and any chance at victory for our opponents.
Proof for my above statement about Space Phantoms power.
For proof look at Avengers #2 when shunted back to Limbo when he attempted to mimic Thor. The Space Phantom reasoned that if he could singlehandedly defeat the Avengers, his people, once free of their temporal catastrophe, would have no problem conquering the Earth someday. However, when he attempted to dimensionally displace the Thor, he himself was dispatched to Limbo since his power could not overcome Odin's various enchantments on Thor.
Because of the above statement, my opponents entire plan is useless. When Space Phatom attempts to transform into Surfer he will be shunted back to Limbo, leaving this battle a 3 on 2. From their our team can take a swift and decisive victory. Due to my above statements I see no other option than for the judges to vote for our team as victors of this match.
__________________
Free Beta Ray Howard
Last edited by Soujaboy on Jan 20th, 2007 at 08:31 PM
...not really. Space Phantom's bio states as much. We were never trying to hide it. It happens when SP tries to become anyone whose power is magically based.
So that argument is null for Surfer, as his power doesn't derive from a magical source.
And Galactus can take away any of the power from his heralds, but he freely gave it to Surfer. It's not connected at all times to Galactus, and nothing in all of comic-dom can prove otherwise. By this estimation, Surfer should have been banned, because he's an extension of Galactus' being (which is false). It's a laughable stretch.
...I have an old Marvel Handbook page that describes it. I'll try to find it.
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I realize SP is Scoob's character, but this should really fall under the realm of clarification, because I'm not actively debating for him. It's just that our opponent has chosen to ignore the guidelines established for SP, and is trying to create a loophole that isn't there.
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And as for the Juggernaut stuff, they never even remotely proved that Juggs could act as a conductor for electricity, and we honestly don't even need to physically touch him.
And the whole thing about him being able to touch Warlock is ridiculous. Adam's faster, smarter, more skilled, can teleport and use energy blasts, etc. My entire first post dealt with why Juggernaut was completely overmatched by Warlock.
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And first they tried to say they'd absorb the power cosmic (which we soundly defeated with concrete scans) and now they're....reversing polaritites so that the power cosmic leaves Thor??
I can't even begin to try and understand that one, but as soon as someone reverses polarities on Surfer and eliminates his power, we'll talk. And the power transfer itself is happening in prep, so they can't mess with it at that point.
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Love the objectivity, Mr. Director Sir.
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I'd write more but I have to go to work. Later guys.
Tell us then how a new source of the power cosmic is to be obtained if not from Galactus? You will have him transform into a Surfer with no power, seeing as how ultimately the power cosmic is wielded and dealt by Galactus.
Like I've stated, it would be like making an attempt to duplicate Mjolnir. The physical body is obtainable, but the properties given from the creator are not.
Galactus is also a god in his own right, his power easily rivals or trumps the power of the Odin Power enchantments. We understand that Surfers power don't derive from a magical source, they derive from the Ultimate source. Do you believe Space Phantom is powerful enough to duplicate this power? i don't, and the judges shouldn't either.
BTW who's the most powerful character Space Phantoms tried to duplicate? Thor. Bio's can be misleading, it could be simply that Space Phantom couldn't cope with the out right raw power that Thor possessed. What power couldn't Space Phantom handle? the odin power, the power cosmic as you know is a even greater source of energy. Either way it shows Space Phantoms can't deal with vast amounts of raw power.
Again I say your initial plan and write up are ruined.
__________________
Free Beta Ray Howard
Last edited by Soujaboy on Jan 20th, 2007 at 10:32 PM
It's directly in his bio/powers. He isn't copying anything. He's literally becoming Surfer, everything except his mind. So no, he's not going to have a husk of Surfer's body with no powers....the transfer is complete, and is an inherent part of SP's power set. You're looking for loopholes that aren't there.
And saying that we're "copying Galactus" is equally ridiculous. Just listen to yourself. You're making it sound like SP has to become the entirety that is Big G's power. He gives powers cosmic to his herals, and it's theirs. They can draw from power cosmic in the universe (that doesn't directly belong to Galactus) and have their own supply. The times Surfer (or any other herald) has used power cosmic to amp their strength or other attribute are uncountable. And why is that? Because they can freely draw from the power cosmic of their own accord.
So if you want to argue that, fine. It's wrong, and SP has Surfer's actual body, not a copy, but tell yourself whatever you need to since we're running out of time.
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Here ya go, btw. It explains how it was only the enchantments surrounding Thor that prevented SP from becoming him.
Digi, who was the most powerful person Phantom took powers from? Because all the bios are saying is that they are assuming that it was the magic that did not allow SP to get Thor's powers
In your write up you lead us to believe that you were imitating Surfer, but now you say your becoming him? you may believe your becoming Surfer but in reality your not. In your write up you stated that All Space Phantom needs is knowledge of a person’s existence to “become” them, but he doesn’t get their experiences and skills, just their inherent powers. However Space Phantom has only became low lv characters whom he's come in contact with. There is no evidence supporting your claim Space Phantom can become anyone as long as he has knowledge of them, considering he's never done so. He has never became a character he hadn't ever came in contact with(he's never came in contact with Surfer), nor has him became character thats billions of light years away. This judges is another flaw in there initial write up and plan.
Who's the most powerful character Space Phantoms has attempted to duplicate? Thor. All the bios you've posted are claiming is that they are assuming that it was the magic that did not allow SP to get Thor's powers, however it could be simply that Space Phantom couldn't cope with the out right raw power that Thor possessed. What power couldn't Space Phantom handle or get past? the Odin power, the power cosmic as you know is a even greater source of energy. Either way it shows Space Phantoms can't deal with vast amounts of raw power. More evidence supporting my claims happened in Avengers #106-108 where Space Phantom was shunted back to Limbo after attempting to mimic Captain Mar-Vell.
In other words your whole plan, your entire argument, is now ruined. You've been arguing of something Space Phantom has never done. Space Phantom's failed both times he attempted to mimic characters with incredible power. One being Thor, and the other being Mar-Vell. This leads me to believe that Space Phantom does not posses to necessary power to duplicate herald lv characters. Not only that, but Space Phantom has never become a character he hasn't came into contact with, let alone a character who's a billions of light years away. This is exactly what your asking him to do, and he's never done either. Considering the above, there is no reason to assume that Space Phantom can become Surfer.
So you have a character who is essentially a human on your team. This is a easy kill for Cain Marko, who after easily killing Space Phantom can now aid in defeating Adam Warlock and Thor whom now have no boards or power cosmic upgrades. This judges is an easy victory for our team.
First Off I would like to begin by saying good job to Digi, and Scoob. You had a great plan, and great strategy, making my first tourney match a great one.
1. Through the duration of this battle our opponents have leaned relied far too heavily on Space Phantom being able to mimic Silver Surfer. This was an intuitive idea, however it's also their downfall. They began their write up by claiming "All Space Phantom needs is knowledge of a person’s existence to become them". This however is a false statement, with little to no proof backing it. Space Phantom in his short history have never mimicked a character whom he hadn't came in contact with, he had also never became a character above mid tier. Space Phantom has twice tried, and both times failed. Once with Thor, and a second time with Captain Mar-Vell. Thus Space Phantom has shown us that he does not posses the necessary power to become a character as Powerful as Surfer. Also Space Phantom has never mimicked a characters power's over a vast distance, and thats bad for Scoob and Digi considering Surfer is most likely trillions of light years away.
Now Digi would like you to believe that these instances were because of magic, and he'll even post some bio's to make an attempt to defend his claim. However each bio he's posted bios are claims that they are assuming that it was the magic that did not allow SP to get Thor's powers, however this was not stated and only assumed. It could just as easily be assumed simply that Space Phantom couldn't and can't cope with the raw power that Thor possessed. This too is bad for our opponents, seeing as how the power cosmic is believed to be even more powerful than the enchantments placed on Thor. Either way, this shows that Space Phantom has failed when making attempts to mimic powerful characters.
This question could also be asked. Why wasn't Space Phantom able to mimic Captain Mar-Vell's power? Simply put, Space Phantom isn't powerful enough. When he tries to mimic Surfer in this battle the same outcome will occur. He'll end up back in Limbo.
What does this mean? It mean that through this entire match, our opponents have been basing their arguments around things that Space Phantom has never done. This eliminates their over glorified boards, and thor's power cosmic upgrade.
This now eliminates one of their teammates before that battle even begins. It's now three on two. What initially gave them the advantage has no backfired giving our team a major advantage.
2. The also were misleading about their "soul mesh" strategy. They left out hey parts about the soul link that would make then unusable in this match. When Adam Warlock initiated the soul mesh with Dr. Strange and Surfer, his soul was actually in the Soul World. When Warlock is inside the Soul World, he's actually capable of a lot more than he is outside of it. This is not speculation, Warlock stated as much to Surfer. Also, I'm not sure about the Thor or Strange incidents, but when linked with Surfer it didn't look to be a easy process for neither of them. Both after completing the soul link were bent over holding their heads. This makes it appear that it's quite taxing on the individuals involved in the event. So basically when they soul link, they won't be helping each other but actually costing each other energy for the upcoming match.
They forgot to mention the effort that's involved
in soul linking, most probable because they'll go into this match at far less that peak condition.
3. After looking at my above statements, you'll notice that Digi and Scoob will be going into battle with two characters, both a little taxed after soul linking. This is a huge problem for them. We will now be able to pull out in strategy we please seeing as how we now have the numbers advantage. Thor being taxed won't be able to hold off BRB, who's not only being kept at peak with Quantum armor, but whom also has a skin tight impenetrable shield. Warlock be left with the impossible task of defeating both Atom and Cain. He may e able to hold them off for a bit, but he will eventually be defeated.
It's inevitable, with one less character and being slightly taxed they won't be able to defeat us. We could basically do what we please for a victory.
Closing Due to the above statements made, there is no other plausible vote but for that of MM and I's team. We have completely decimated their strategy, leaving them with a missing character and the remaining two taxed after soul linking. We now have the strength, speed, durability, and numbers advantage. Seemingly every advantage required to pull out as victors of this fight. yes they had great ideas, but with no proof supporting their claims how can they pull out victory? Their entire strategy was based off speculations of what they wished their characters could do. MM and i found that out and tore their strategy apart, leaving them with theoretically no chance at victory. We are clearly the stronger team, and should easily pull out this victory.
Seeing as how this is my final post I would like to thank the posters, and Batdude for a good time. Hope we can do this again some time Scoob and Digi.
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Jan 19th, 2007 12:02 AM
