So, before I respond, I guess all the other points still stand that you haven't responded to without a debate right? OK good.
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Bigbran post #3.
Ya, I looked over EVERYTHING.
But I could ask you the same thing. The part in which Druid pawned the Avengers (I'll get into that later)?
Where exactly did I claim this? Unless you are talking about when I said our team was probably faster, in which it mattered not, in which we were or not. But the only speedster on your team is Quaser. And he is busy:
Shooting a big omni-blast.
And trying to put me in a bubble.
In which, why would your speed matter anyway?
The rest of your team is slow, and Quaser can't substain your whole team when he gets his mind taken out (in which I will get to later/a long time ago).
Also I said his reflexes/speed were there to avoid his attacks. I never claimed AM to be faster than Quaser. He is fast enough however to avoid attacks.
I also said that I wouldn't be running around you, or running away (in the scan you posted). Also why would this be relevent anyway, since we never claimed "speedblitz" or anything of the sorts.
So, our guys are fast enough to avoid attacks (and the rest of our team is probably way faster than the rest of your team, but hey...).
Quaser is basically your only speedster, and I won't be trying to match his speed, just avoid his attacks (think along the lines of Spider-Man).
Did you ever think that he could have added his magic to his telepathy (irrelevent since I will get into the full thing in a little bit). Anyway, based off a bio right? Because we all know the bio's just block out all the comic evidence of things happening.
Hell, let's say that you are indeed right for a minute. The power he showed there was magic (a magic mind attack... something that I have been using to take out Quaser this whole time). Quaser is useless to magic. So... Quaser's mind still gets attacked by magic, and Quaser still goes down... hard.
Of course though, this is if by someway that the telepathy doesn't work.
So, I will still stick with my strategy and take you out by mind.
Ya, and how long did those safety measures take?
Also, it also seemed to weaken him quite when this kicked in. So, if by some miracle that you can stop my magic (not possible), Quaser will also be weakened or stunned... just enough time for me to take him to the cleaners.
So you see, either way you slice it, Quaser is going down.
Oh but I do.
It is all a matter of looking. Or if you can't use this as a response, it is littered all over this post.
Quaser is useless against magic, not to a certain degree, but useless!
So, he was the wrong one for you guys to put against AM don't you think?
Also, I know that it took a full battle in which Quaser had the lower hand against Thor, for the spell to wear off. It also wore off, from a little help from Thor hitting him.
Quaser never broke free right away, and he doesn't have the luxury of a couple comics for AM's mind attacks to take you out. Also, I won't be continually affecting you. Think of it, as Mike Tyson hitting a normal (unworked out) 20 year old.
One attack equals Quaser either going down, or severely hurt.
Two attacks equals Quaser going down.
So Quaser as he is useless to magic, will be hit with magic and telepathy (I already pointed out in an earlier post).
Ya, and that is the only reason Quaser was able to break free. From it's long lasting effects. Like I said though, my attacks are going to hit you hard and fast.
You also made a mistake:
Dr. Druid's magical TP.
Sure, let's go with that...
Do I need to explain it again?
Thor has absorbed a blast that would destroy a 5th of the universe. Thor wasn't able to absorb AM.
Also that was a hypothical situation, in which I would turn into Quaser's constructs. Or in other words, I played into your hands.
But that wouldn't work.
I also said I wasn't dumb enough to do that (since I have my magic working at Quaser). But that was a just in case.
I will however use that energy AFTER I take out Quaser to get out of the bubble (That I most likely will not be getting into).
Yes, it will work. I already explained earlier. But, Quaser is useless to magic. My attacks are magic. His mind attacks will take out Quaser.
You can't absorb AM, and it wouldn't matter if you could (as I already pointed out).
You mean the suprise attack that just came in, about two posts, ago, that also goes against your first strategy?
Anyway... this suprise attack won't affect our guys. Since as I pointed out earlier, that two of us are made of Cap's shield (Darth will deal with Despero). You will again, at best, get our attention. Then it's all downhill from there.
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I'm still sticking strong with my strategy though.
I will mindrape Quaser when he uses his attack (I guess he got switched to attacking from behind now). So after that attack is futile, I will hit you hard.
I also made every way that you said it would play out backfire. That just proves I have so many other options, than my main one that I am sticking with.
I don't even know if I need to get into detail about Mangog/SA, since I explained it good the last post, but... Mangog won't be taking him down basically. And every time he attacks, he will be getting energy sapped.
Then from there, it is all about overwhelming the rest in our number advantage.
Sorry it's taken me so long to reply everyone. But, i'm here now...
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Ok, Lucid Post #2.
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The problem here is, X-Man is shielding his presence from other psionics. Just like Exodus couldn't sense him (in a scan i posted in my #1 post), something like what Druid did there isn't going to sense X-Man either.
"Useless"? Well that depends on how you look at it. As you so kindly pointed out...
Your team is distracted. The illussions have served their purpose. Maybe not as long as i'd hoped, but even a little is enough. Quasar Found your energy signatures when X-Man was preparing the illusions. The second the illusions manifest, we're teleporting to your position. So now wile SA is bringing your team up to date on the illusions, we've arrived.
You don't "teleport back". You've been merged with solid ground. You're dead.
That does cause a problem, and obviously Mangog's not going to be verty effective. He won't be losing power though. He'll keep pounding away, and he could probably keep doing so infinitely. Whatever happens, Mangog will have kept SA busy enough for X-Man (who's dealt with Desper) to come in and help.
Druid will not know where X-Man is, as i've already pointed out.
He's faster to put a beating on Thor so fast and ferocious that the Recorder couldn't tally the blows.
Especially when he can't find him.
Impossible to do when you're merged with solid ground.
Which are shielded from your presence.
Anything to throw you off.
You're kidding right? You think X-Man and Quasar aren't naturally shielded?
He is.
Well, the second we land (with you not even knowing we're there), Despero is taken out. And SA and AM are both blindsided.
Therein lies the problem. Our presences are shielded. You won't be sensing any minds.
I'd like to see how SA is going to affect an immensely powered up Mangog wrapped in Quantum armour. All of Asgard wasn't able to stop Mangog, he just waltzed right through everything they had to offer.
They worked enough.
No, they can't. Like i've said, our presences are shielded.
He imbued the Hulk with armour, and then proceeded to spend his time telekintically re-building a large amount of wreckage. Sustaing Hulk's armour had no effect whatsoever on X-Man (and even if he wasn't able to maintain Mangog's armour, Mangog still has his natural durability and Quantum armour. I can't think of anything you guys can to do to Mangog physically that would cause him much trouble. He is insanely durable.
He's not keeping Quasar invisible, Quasar's doing that himself. Regardless he's been doing the invisibilty tick since he was just a young rookie with barely any control over his powers. It's never strained him.
You are mistaken. He didn't have to concentrate to maintain Hulks. And let's remember, this is Shaman X-Man. He's reached his full potenital and is a great deal more powerful and skilled than X-Man was in the issue we're talking about.
You guys saw through them pretty fast, and they served their purpose long enough for X-Man to take out Despero. X-Man won't need the illusions much longer.
Not happening because Despero is merged with solid ground.
blah blah shielded presence blah blah.
That's all i can manage at the moment, but i'll try and be more active in the last couple of days...
I really don't know what your reading in those scans, because I saw no indication that Dr. Druid sensed Captain Marvel at all. If he didn't need to sense her, then he won't need to sense X-Man.
No because you are again over looking the fact that Super Adaptiod has a FAR greater reactionary speed than anyone on your team. He has the combined mental speed of two super computers, and a guy that can tag Flash fairly frequently. He would register the illusions and transmit the info about them before your team could actually attack. X-Man has faster reflexes than anyone on your team(though Quasar has a faster travel speed), and he simply moves/reacts at the speed of thought.
2 Super Computers+Despero > Speed of thought.
AM also has the mind of a super computer plus mental speed of Despero. So he'll be able to respond to Super Adaptoid within two seconds(tops). Your guys won't be able to get off an actual attack before my guys are going to be fully aware of the illusions, so we won't be distracted by them.
Nope I checked with batdude, that kind of teleportaion isn't allowed in this tourney. And the time you wasted trying just lends more credit to my team being ready to counter.
Wrong. Mangog WILL be losing power(if he manages to get in a hit) because Super Adaptoid will be absorbing his strength, and using it to grow stronger. For that matter, he can also absorb Mangog's speed at the same time, and then add YOUR speed to his also.
He doesn't have to, as I've pointed out.
So a a character who's mind is as fast as a supercomputer couldn't tally the blows, big deal. Now he's swinging at a guy who's mind is as fast as TWO super computers, in addition to someone who can tag Flash consistently.
The attack itself will find him, didn't you read the scan?
Not allowed, but thanks for wasting your time trying.
Anyway, I'll let bigbran respond to your comments to him and just skip forward to mine.
Wait, did he PROCEED to re building the wreckage, or did he do that while Hulk was wearing the armor? And Super Adaptoid is more than powerful enough to hurt Mangog at this point. You see, now he's got the strength/durability of Cap's shield, power from Quasar's omni blast, the energy from your Quantum Armor, the energy from your TK armor, and the strength you had Mangog feed him by attacking him physically. Remember, Mangog's strength got added to the strength Super Adaptoid already had when you where foolish enough to have Mangog attack him physically. So Super Adaptoid's fine, Mangog on the other hand is pretty much screwed.
Wait I thought he didn't do it with tk until later(though I may be wrong about that)? Anyway, I'm not really contesting his ability to do anything on the list, I'm contesting his ability to do all of them at once.
Which means what exactly? Now your speculating that now he'll be able to do 5 separate things, none of which he's ever shown the ability to do simultaneously before. I know he's more powerful at this stage, but I still think your putting him to high up on the scale of power. Like I said, I'd be willing to believe that he could do two or three of the things your saying, but five seems a bit much with the lack of evidence that exist in this case.
Yeah, my team saw through them within seconds(and before you could attack most likely). And since you didn't take Despero out by teleporting(since it's not allowed), that just means your trying to sustain all of them even longer(when you still haven't proven he can).
Wrong, against the rules. Despero's fine, and the time you spent trying that little stunt gave my guys even more time to adapt to the situation(not that they really needed it).
A. AM won't be seeing me I'm invisible remember
B. his tp is not magical he was born with those powers his magic comes from the speels of his ancestors .
C. Enchantress used a spell on Quasar not a Telepathic attack. Theres a difference.
Enchantress = spellcaster
Dr. Druuid- low level spell caster, low level telepath
Quasar is completely immune to telepathy and has failsafes against Strong spells like the one enchantress cast.
anways TP is TP no type of TP works against Quasar no type
Sow me a scan of someone using magical TP "not a mind control spell like enchantress used" against Quasar and having it work .
D. None of your team knows that Quasar is vulnurable to magic. They can't even see him. and your team can't scan his mind because A. Quasar is invulnerable to any type of telepathyB. Quasar is invisible .
So your team ahs no way of knowing that Quasra is vuneravle to amgic which doesn't even matter since your tp won't work on Quasar anyway.
E. PIS theres no way Absorbing man is> a goo dportion of the universe. Also Quasar >Thor when it comes to energy absorbtion.
F. I never specifically stated where ar epossition to your team was anyway even if I di you can't sense or see us and your team is distracted by the llusions as well. your team won't be braced for anything you will get hit hard.
__________________ DL's Tourney win loss record for 2008
2W-0 L
At the start of your posts could you indicate which character is yours and which is the team character ... saves us non-combatants from constantly having to go back and check.
(this goes for our match from now on as well guys)
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Lucid Post #3
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Just a rebuttal post for now, i'll outline where our strategy goes from here tomorrow morning.
There needs to be some hint of a mind though. Something for the telepathy/spell to latch on to so it knows it's found it's contact, (otherwise what's to stop it from thinking it's found its contact with a rock). Nate has made it so there's no minds to be sensed, therefore Druids TP doesn't find anything.
Shaman X-Man's reacted fast enough to teleport away from a bloodlusted character who could fly around the world in seconds. Whether your guys are informed about the illusions when we touch down or not, the fact still remains that you don't know we're there, so you won't be attacking us.
While.
Now obviously this (annoying) turn of events hinders us a bit. But as Despero still won't be able to identify X-Man's position (and SA is busy with mangog, regardless of who has the advantage here, SA won't be taking Mangog out quickly), X-Man will change his strategy (as i assume since he tried something against the rules, it just didn't work), which i'll outline in my next post.
Post #5 (And at the request of Scoob's, Despero is MY guy, and Super adaptoid is both of ours.)
Speculation. Point out the portion of the scan I provided that says he sensed Captain Marvel. You're not dealing with normal telepathy, you're dealing with magic, and magic has a funny way of breaking the rules that are normally in place in these instances. So what feats do you have that indicate X-Man has a legitimate defense against magic like this?
Oh we ARE informed about the illusions, make no mistake about that. And what is this teleportation feat your talking about(details and/or scans of the event)? Anyway, you honestly think that a SINGLE instance of teleporting away from someone is proof enough that your reactions are equal to the likes of our team? In that case, I guess we'd all better take into consideration that Pip the Troll must have some ungodly reflexes himself, seeing as how he's been able to teleport away from just about everyone at some point or another.
Anyway, our entire team is more than capable of attacking your guys. As we've explained(and shown) REPEATEDLY, Dr. Druid does not need to see someone to use his powers on them. And as for Despero....
He is able to sense and actually SEE the essence of a person's soul via his third eye. So he’d not be fooled by the illusions anyway(unless you guys gave them a soul). And did you guys do something special to conceal your own souls from our team? No. Therefore, Despero is fully aware of X-Man(even without Super Adaptoid's attack against X-Man, which you still haven’t really came up with a defense for).
Except that Despero IS aware of X-Man. Even if you somehow masked your soul essence, he would still be made aware by Super Adaptoid's(or rather, Dr. Druid's) attack. For that matter, you still haven't proven that X-Man is capable of sustaining THREE suits of TK armor, keeping himself invisible while helping to keep Mangog invisible, sustains illusions all over the battlefield, keeping some kind of uber psi shield active for Mangog, and still be able to engage(and beat) Despero in a telepathic showdown.
Now to the judges(since this was a rather short post on my part).
Several things have been CONTINUOUSLY ignored by our opponents throughout this match that I'd like to recap, just so they're fresh in everyone's mind.
1. There's no proof that X-Man can sustain all the effects that they have him attempting. The closest thing to proof they've provided is the speculation that in his "Shaman" form, he SHOULD be able to sustain all of it, since he's more powerful.
2. Dr. Druids mental abilities are magical in nature. Now against someone with no real defense against regular telepathy, there's probably not much of a difference. But when shielding and the like come into play, it can make a HUGE difference. Just ask Superman which he'd rather be blasted by, regular fire or magical fire. Even if both fire's burn at the same intensity and are identical in every aspect to someone with no defense against either, the magical fire will be far more effective because of Supes lack of defense against it. Once again(and hopefully for the last time), here is Dr. Druid saying SPECIFICALLY that his mental powers utilize Earth based MAGIC... http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/...detailedtt6.jpg
So their countering this by saying "it's just like regular TP" is somewhat ludicrous(see Supes example as to why). And the attack was strong enough to stop Thor with the rest of the Avengers, so it's hardly a "weak" attack.
3. We've shown repeatedly that Dr. Druid doesn't have to see someone to use his abilities on them, and the fact that his powers are MAGICAL in nature makes a big difference in situations like this. Magical attacks aren't bound by the same rules as most other attacks, and all the other team has done is to speculate that the attack would be no different than normal TP.
4. While the opposing team might have faster traveling speed than ours, our teams reactions are FAR better. Despero is the slowest on our team, and he's still got the speed/reflexes to tag Flash consistently, and even interrupt a speedblitz from Flash. Super Adaptoid, has all that speed, PLUS the mental speed of TWO supercomputers. Silver Surfer has a far faster traveling speed than Thanos, but what happens when SS tries to rush him?
5. Our team was set to absorb any incoming attacks at the start of the battle. That means that Quasar's opening omni blast did nothing more than strengthen our guys(except Despero, who's plenty durable enough to handle a blast like that, seeing as how he's taken numerous blast from the likes of GL's(and seeing as how most of the attack was absorbed anyway).
6. Mangog was screwed the moment they had him attempt to square off with Super Adaptoid. At the start of the match, he was as strong/durable as Cap's shield. His power was then further increased by the omni blast from Quasar. It was then increased even further, by absorbing Mangog's Quantum Armor and TK armor(which they still haven't proven X-Man can sustain), and the strength of Mangog himself(because in DL's first post he specifically had Mangog attack Super Adaptoid physically). Now imagine that....
Strength of Cap's shield+energy from omni blast+Quantum Armor+TK Armor+the strength of Mangog=WOW.
6. Finally, during our prep phase we made use of Wanda's powers over probability to increase our teams effectiveness(and the one that used those powers understands them on a level that Wanda could only dream of). That means that everything that we've said is not only possible, it's probable. We basically have the polar opposite of Murphy's Law in effect for us, Anything that CAN go right for us, WILL go right.
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Last edited by darthgoober on Jan 20th, 2007 at 01:51 AM
Even if they haven't, it's the final day and judges are welcome to start casting votes...at best, there will be a post or two, but enough has been posted to form a reasoned opinion.
In that case, I’ll go ahead and cast my vote for Bigbran and Darthgoober.
Overall, they just seem to have a better idea of how they were going to go about this whole fight and IMO they presented better strategies to counter their opponents. They brought more well thought out arguments to the table (not so say that DL and LL didn’t also bring in intelligent arguments, but BB and Darth just did better in that area IMO).I believe one of the biggest factors is that BB and Darth seemed to know much more about what their own characters could do than LL and DL knew about them, which seemed to aid them in coming up with ways to prove the failure of their opponents’ offensive strategies (such as the whole “illusions don’t work on Super-Adaptoid” thing).
Any way, this isn’t to say DL and LL didn’t debate well, but their arguments just didn’t seem as convincing as BB’s and Darth’s posts did. Their opening strategy seemed like it would be effective, but I was more swayed by Adaptation Unlimited’s opening posts even moreso and it mainly just went from there.
They seemed to counter everything that was thrown at them, with a very reasonable and just strategy. Everything seemed very well thought out, and they knew exactly what there characters were capable of, and provided scan after scan proving their point.
DL/LL still did very well, but Darth and BB's strategy held a bit better IMO.
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"I am tired of Earth. These people.
I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives."
I'm voting for Darth and Bran.
I wanted to see if Devil Lance and Lucid Lui were going to post again before I voted but I have to leave soon.
I was more convinced with their opening strategy and counter points. I wasn't convinced with the illusions or invisibility working on team Bran/Darth. Team DL/LL did a great job but imo their plan and counters weren't as solid.
Congrats to both teams for a great debate.
It looks like Bran and Darth are moving to the next round.
Also thanks to DL and LL, you guys put up a really good match and actually had me scrambling at a couple of points during it. So I owe you thanks if for nothing else other than the fact that you guys showed me what we need to work on.
OK, this should be my last post.
Also, since this was brought up, my character is AM, Darth's is Despero, and our team's is SA.
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Remember that I don't have to see you, to hit you? Dr. Druid doesn't have to see his opponent to hit them with a mind attack. Also, you gave away your position as soon as you fired off your omni-blast . So, even if I didn't have Druid's mind powers, you gave away your position.
Either way, Quaser being invisible means nothing when he tried to stumble us, and failed, and in the mean time gave his position away.
Oh, I guess you didn't see every post I posted. Your using a bio to disclude what happened, and the bio even says it is unsure about his mind attacks. Nothing along the lines of what you said.
Remember, bio's aren't there to try and disclude what happened on-panel, in comics.
His failsafe didn't kick in immediately, and left him stunned in the process.
Plus remember that Quaser is useless against magic, not immune to Enchantress level magic.
Plus, where would you get the idea that he is a low level? Not that it matters... at all! But, really?
Ummm... Quaser is immune to tp, yes, of course. Quaser is useless against magic.
As soon as AM, takes out his mental blocks (magic), his tp will be hitting with full force. Not just a magic attack, not just a tp attack. But, a magic and tp attack.
Like I said before, he will be hit with the full force, it would be like Mike Tyson hitting you.
So you thought this whole time it would just be the magic, but no, not at all. The magic will take out the psi-blocks (and hurt the hell out of Quaser in the process), then the tp will finish him off.
Umm... AM will still hit him with it reguardless. Like I mean, we had AM attack him with the attack already, and even if he didn't know about it, he is still going to hit him, find out it is effective, and then take him out in the next.
Plus, I already answered the rest in the rest of my post.
How is it pis, when it is AM's only showing of getting absorbed?
So, after you figured out that you couldn't absorb AM, you call the pis card?
Plus, I don't know why you are clinging to this one so much. I said it wouldn't happen, and it won't. You won't get the oppurtunity to do so, because when I responded to it, I gave you a What-If (like in comics, it won't happen). I showed it wouldn't happen, and it won't. It doesn't even matter if Quaser could (he can't), because I wouldn't give you the oppurtunity, and I'm not changing my strategy.
Plus, you want another reason why it also couldn't happen (this is the third reason). It is because AM is a magical person to begin with (he was changed by Loki). No that he ever shoots the stuff, but Quaser will sure as hell know what he is, if he follows your strategy. Quaser (useless to magic), absorbing someone who got his powers by magic... I don't think so!
You still want to cling to this? It is false, through and through.
Wait... you said you would teleport to our location and if all goes right, SA will be facing Mangog, Quaser will be facing AM, and Despero will be facing X-Man.
Do you know what facing is?
Go look at your opening post, if you think I'm making this up.
So, now you are going to teleport behind me?
Also, our team was braced for your impact.
Plus, your omni-blast was already proven to do nothing numerous times.
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OK, to get right down to this battle:
You guys changed to attacking us from behind. At first you said you would be facing us, and now it is changed into a back attack.
Your illusions have been proven to be false.
You changed your strategy (and character), when you said that Mangog will just stand back and attack from afar, after you found out that SA was set to absorb.
Mangog was originally going to just teleport and pound on SA, and KO him... but then you found out what it said in our opening post, and then it went downhill form there. Mangog isn't even in the debate anymore...
Quaser was proven not to be able to absorb AM.
Quaser was shown to be useless to magic attacks. We gave you magic telepathy.
Quaser was originally supposed to hurt all of our characters with his omni-blast. We proved that to be nothing more than an attention attack.
Quaser is supposed to do an omni-blast, and than is supposed to trap AM in a bubble. But, AM will hit Quaser as soon, or right after he fires off his omni-blast (or useless attack in this battle).
Mangog was proven not to be invisible.
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For our part now:
Basically, our strategy is still strong. Everything is still good, and running.
AM takes Quaser out as soon as he tries to do anything. With his magic, plus his telepathy, Quaser will be hit full force, and for the first time, Quaser is going down to telepathy. The magic in the attack, will take out the psi-blocks, plus it will severely weaken him and stun him. Then the TP will hit his mind full force. That is all in one attack too!
He either goes down in the first attack, or he gets put in a coma in the next one... you decide.
It still doesn't matter if Quaser gets him in a bubble also. I will take him out, and then deal with his bubble later. It also won't take long at all to get out of the bubbles.
I have regarded your strategy's, and then proved them to be false, not just ignored them. They were hypothical situations (AM getting absorbed), in which I proved them to be false, and then later killed them.
Mangog isn't taking out SA since he is made of Cap's shield, and he will take some damage, plus, he will be absorbing part of the shield that was put up around Mangog. Hell we didn't even make SA lift a finger to do this (weird).
Mangog is still visible, and still vunerable.
The omni-blast won't be doing anything, and it was just a waste of time, to put Quaser as an even bigger target.
Quaser may be visible, but his mind isn't, and that is all that is important. Plus, he gave away his position as soon as he fired off his useless omni-blast.
Also, your bubbles that were supposedly going to take down AM, those weren't even proven to hit him. Plus, after Quaser is dealt with, it is a simple matter of breaking out of the bubbles, not by physical force, but by using his head.
Plus, our team may, or may not be faster, but we sure as hell have faster reflexes.
After Quaser gets taken to the house, AM will come over and help put Mangog down, then X-Man is going down.
KMC Community Forums
Jan 17th, 2007 11:29 PM
In that case, I guess we'd all better take into consideration that Pip the Troll must have some ungodly reflexes himself, seeing as how he's been able to teleport away from just about everyone at some point or another.
Official pimp of Steverules 
